Jermaine Cunningham is not a 4.92 40 Guy

[StraightCashHomey81]

I have seen in the draft forum and the main board that Cunningham ran a 4.92(I believe at his pro day). I have seen varying times on him, including 4.59, 4.68, and 4.72. BB would not have picked him if the time the Patriots had him at was 4.92, per his 6'3'-6'5 4.6 40 3-4 OLB standard.

I know there is an effort by some to discredit the Cunningham pick because they're upset their binkies didn't get selected the Patriots, but I thought I would set the record straight. I know a 40 time is a small point in considering the total evaluation of a player, but in the case of an OLB the 40 can be indicitave of their ability to effectively run the arc. There is a big difference between 4.68 and 4.92

Sporting News had him at 4.71

FF Toolbox: 4.59 Jermaine Cunningham Scouting Report - 2010 NFL Draft Prospect

SI.com: 4.72
Jermaine Cunningham - 2010 Draft Tracker - SI.com

My own research had him at 4.68, but I don't forget where I found that.

 

[BritPat]

You need to look at his 3 cone and SS times, not his 40 time.

 

[Snake Eyes]

You need to look at his 3 cone and SS times, not his 40 time.

Bingo. If you ask people who played with **** Butkus they say he had the worst 40 on the team but he was easily the fastest when moving 10yds in any direction. The best way to evaluate a player is by seeing how good they do things that are similar to what they'll need to do on the field, since LBs or DEs seldom run 40yds straight, I'm not that concerned about their 40 time, for a DB it becomes a lot more relevant.

Also, the 40 is more about mitigating deceleration than measuring acceleration, one normally hits top speed within the initial 10-15yds, the rest of the way one is slowing down. For a DE I'm more concerned with how quickly they cover 1-10yds, and in different directions.

 

[CheeseMonkeys]

Bingo. If you ask people who played with **** Butkus they say he had the worst 40 on the team but he was easily the fastest when moving 10yds in any direction. The best way to evaluate a player is by seeing how good they do things that are similar to what they'll need to do on the field, since LBs or DEs seldom run 40yds straight, I'm not that concerned about their 40 time, for a DB it becomes a lot more relevant.

Also, the 40 is more about mitigating deceleration than measuring acceleration, one normally hits top speed within the initial 10-15yds, the rest of the way one is slowing down. For a DE I'm more concerned with how quickly they cover 1-10yds, and in different directions.

I think the 40 time is way overrated, and the cone drill is more important. This goes for any position I think. Of course this doesn't mean that it is ok for a WR to run a 4.8 but if you look at many great WRs, the 40 time doesn't always mean that much. Look at Jerry Rice. He ran like upper 4.50 but could burn anyone on the field in a game situation. Wes Welker ran a 4.65 at the combine but can easily fly past defenders. When a football player is quick but not necessarily fast they can end up a good player.

 

[BelichickFan]

He hurt his leg on the 4.92 40. He is not a 4.92 40 guy and I have no idea why you put that falsehood as the subject when your text says the opposite.

 

[StraightCashHomey81]

He hurt his leg on the 4.92 40. He is not a 4.92 40 guy and I have no idea why you put that falsehood as the subject when your text says the opposite.

OOOPS! I mean to say NOT, my mistake.

 

[StraightCashHomey81]

I think the 40 time is way overrated, and the cone drill is more important. This goes for any position I think. Of course this doesn't mean that it is ok for a WR to run a 4.8 but if you look at many great WRs, the 40 time doesn't always mean that much. Look at Jerry Rice. He ran like upper 4.50 but could burn anyone on the field in a game situation. Wes Welker ran a 4.65 at the combine but can easily fly past defenders. When a football player is quick but not necessarily fast they can end up a good player.

Belichick said after the 2009 draft the 40 time is an important part of their OLB evaluations, so therefore I take it heavily into account. I try to look at prospects from their perspective.

 

[CheeseMonkeys]

Re: Jermaine Cunningham is a 4.92 40 Guy

Belichick said after the 2009 draft the 40 time is an important part of their OLB evaluations, so therefore I take it heavily into account. I try to look at prospects from their perspective.

Sure, some may see it as important for an OLB because they require speed to get to the Quarterback. I think that as long as they are quick and explosive, then they will be able to get to the qb even with a mediocre 40 time.

 

[patchick]

We just don't know Cunningham's measurables. He didn't work out at the Combine, then hurt himself running the 40 at his pro day. Presumably the Pats watched his speed & quickness in games and practices and quizzed their buddies at Florida about their measurements. They were obviously satisfied.

For us amateur draftniks, though, it's yet one more dead end in the ongoing debate about the Great BB OLB Prototype -- the Yeti of Patriots draft lore.

During this draft leadup, I had a few different go-rounds on the board about The Prototype. My take has been "I don't think we have any clue what Bill Belichick is looking for in an OLB/DE. He has so consistently passed on EVERYBODY that we're flying blind." Others feel that BB has been very clear about what he's looking for, and the rarity of that type explains the lack of draft picks:

"I think that there were more shorter players, maybe a little less speed than what we've seen, maybe a little more power with good production," Belichick said after the 2009 draft. "There weren't a lot of 4.6, 4.65 (40 time) guys. There weren't a lot of 6-4, 6-5 guys. I'd say it was a much smaller pool of those types of players."

Another time I extended the theoretical prototype to:
6.4+ 250+ 4.70-, 23+, 37"+, 4.20-, 7.00- and long arms
(And of course there are skill set debates, too.)

Cunningham doesn't give us any clarity, alas. (BTW, he's 6'3.3" with average arms.) For something to chew on, we can consider that BB did pass on longer/taller/faster guys...and signed a UDFA whose measurables are a dead ringer for Jerry Hughes:

6'1.5" 250 4.61 29 36" 4.35 6.93

 

[upstater1]

I'm suspicious of all these times. I trust the combine time more than anything because it's not done by hand timers. Of course I realize some players are not at their optimum on combine day. The pro days are suspect because of hand times and variable surfaces.

Check this out:

 

[TriplecHamp]

I'm suspicious of all these times. I trust the combine time more than anything because it's not done by hand timers. Of course I realize some players are not at their optimum on combine day. The pro days are suspect because of hand times and variable surfaces.

Check this out:

They look accurate to me!

 

[BelichickFan]

OOOPS! I mean to say NOT, my mistake.

Makes more sense now, thanks.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

An ex-Gator at work told me that the pro day runs were on grass in the rain.

[By the way he was there when Jevon Kearse was there and said he had never a guy with longer arms.]

 

[upstater1]

They look accurate to me!

Really? Because several of those guys didn't clock anywhere near that time, and having that many 4.2 guys basically means that many of your football players should be running in the Olympics.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Really? Because several of those guys didn't clock anywhere near that time, and having that many 4.2 guys basically means that many of your football players should be running in the Olympics.

Uh, they do. Several of their running backs qualified for the Olympic 100 meters team.

 

[patsfan-1982]

he dose not have to go 40 yerds to get to the QB and lets hope he dose not have to cover any one 40 yerds doen field.



this guy is not a great athlete. just a good football player. he wont get 15 sacks or make a lot of pro bowls he will just get he's job done. kinda like a mike vrabel, type player.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Really? Because several of those guys didn't clock anywhere near that time, and having that many 4.2 guys basically means that many of your football players should be running in the Olympics.

1) they arnt from this year
2) Meyer: Rainey outran Demps | Gatorsports.com
The Florida gators are consistently one of the fastest teams in the country if not the fastest.

 

[DocE]

I posted this in another thread, but I feel like I should repeat it here.

Cunningham's 10 yard split was 1.57 which was faster than every DE and every DE/OLB with the exception of Jason Worilds.

Cunningham's 35 vertical and 10'5 broad jump are at or near the top of the DE's and DE/OLB's.

Info on Cunningham's Pro Day results came from Gil Brand's blog and draft insider.net among other sources.

 

[upstater1]

1) they arnt from this year
2) Meyer: Rainey outran Demps | Gatorsports.com
The Florida gators are consistently one of the fastest teams in the country if not the fastest.

I know they're not from this year, and I'm sure they have fast guys. Anything in the 4.2 range is world class but...

Joe Haden at 4.33?

 

[TriplecHamp]

I know they're not from this year, and I'm sure they have fast guys. Anything in the 4.2 range is world class but...

Joe Haden at 4.33?

Yeah thats the only one I question haha