Pats still need someone who can rush the passer

[DropKickFlutie]

You're half right and half wrong. The best pass rush comes from scheme AND individual talent. Have our schemes changed much over the last seven years? No. Has the individual talent changed much? Yes (minus Seymour, Willie, Vrabel, Colvin...). Our front seven has well underperformed those of the Super Bowl years in regards to getting after the quarterback, and it's because of the talent drain.

But people were calling for a better pass rush every year for the past 5 years, even when Seymour, Vrabel, Colvin, Harrison, Bruschi were still on the defense...

 

[jeffbiologist]

Cunningham is one of my 2 binkies this year. He is a under rated pass rusher, I think he I read he ranks 3rd in FL history for sacks for what thats worth. Think of a young Bruschi. Two other guys left out there are Sapp from SC and my other binky, my namesake, Obrien Schofield from Wisconsin. Schofield was actually leading the nation in tackles for losses going into December but blew up his knee in the combine. He will need a redshirt year but we got Tate cheap last year with the same thing, worth a late 5th I'd say....

 

[patfanken]

I just looked at the roster. We certainly have room for one front seven guy or two.

Ham, one of the draft geeks over at Jetsinsider made a great suggestion (for the Jets of course ) He said, if you want to draft a lethal edge rusher but place him on IR for a year is O'Brien Shofield, Wisconsin. He equated it as being like you traded a late 4th or 5th round pick for late first or early 2nd round pick in 2011.

I don't know anything about the kid, but Ham is one of those draft geeks who usually knows what he's talking about....and we certainly have a lot of picks on the 3rd day.

 

[patsfan55]

But people were calling for a better pass rush every year for the past 5 years, even when Seymour, Vrabel, Colvin, Harrison, Bruschi were still on the defense...

Because we knew Willie and Vrabel were getting long in the tooth, and we didn't have many holes at the time, so we had the luxury of just grooming some youth in some older spots.

 

[patsfan55]

Cunningham is one of my 2 binkies this year. He is a under rated pass rusher, I think he I read he ranks 3rd in FL history for sacks for what thats worth. Think of a young Bruschi. Two other guys left out there are Sapp from SC and my other binky, my namesake, Obrien Schofield from Wisconsin. Schofield was actually leading the nation in tackles for losses going into December but blew up his knee in the combine. He will need a redshirt year but we got Tate cheap last year with the same thing, worth a late 5th I'd say....

I need to know more about Cunningham..I honestly don't know a ton about him..please do share

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I need to know more about Cunningham..I honestly don't know a ton about him..please do share

Looks good of the edge

Here is a clip where you can see what he excells at about 1:45 into the clip...YouTube - Lott Shots top-5 hits from Week 9

 

[TheComeback]

Watch Cunningham at 4:45 in this clip and tell me he can't rush the passer. You'd have to be smoking something.

YouTube - Jermaine Cunningham highlights Florida vs Mississippi State

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Heres one of Brandon Spikes

Kapow!

YouTube - Brandon Spikes Nails Knowshon Moreno

 

[patsfan55]

Watch Cunningham at 4:45 in this clip and tell me he can't rush the passer. You'd have to be smoking something.

YouTube - Jermaine Cunningham highlights Florida vs Mississippi State

It was a stunt, he came in un-blocked

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

Cunningham is recovering from shoulder surgery (around the time of the Senior Bowl). So, it would be wise to pick up another pass rusher/DE on Saturday.

 

[patsfan-1982]

they could still draft sapp, or norwood, but right now it's up to TBC to get to the QB or crable,


Jermaine Cunningham, i see as a good football player not a great pass rusher. but with the spikes pick guyton could play some OLB were he can use he's speed to get to the QB

 

[patsfan-1982]

Watch Cunningham at 4:45 in this clip and tell me he can't rush the passer. You'd have to be smoking something.

YouTube - Jermaine Cunningham highlights Florida vs Mississippi State

thats the worst highlight reel i ever seen. he did not set the edge he missed a lot of tackles no QB hit's and one sack on a miss read by the O line



i like Jermaine Cunningham, but if the only tape coachs had on him was this he would have never been drafted

 

[VJCPatriot]

Rickey Sapp, Austen Lane, Griffin, etc. are still around if we want a mid round pass rusher to hedge our bets. And Geathers might be a decent late round pick.

 

[VOODOOZF]

they could still draft sapp, or norwood, but right now it's up to TBC to get to the QB or crable,

I agree with what you are saying, but they aren't the impact players you need. TBC did a decent job last year, but I think they need to improve in this area.

 

[TheComeback]

It was a stunt, he came in un-blocked

Yeah, I know. I was referring to the burst he showed to take the QB down before he could even think about letting the ball go.

thats the worst highlight reel i ever seen. he did not set the edge he missed a lot of tackles no QB hit's and one sack on a miss read by the O line

I don't think it's nearly as bad as you or the commenters on YouTube have made it out to be. He set the edge on quite a few plays and showed an ability to get penetration on a regular basis, and his effort on every play is outstanding--even though it was a tough game for him. He shows an excellent first step throughout the entire clip, with few exceptions.

You don't have to hit the QB or get a sack to have a successful day as a pass rusher. He did miss a few tackles and get blocked a few times. Everyone has bad games. The clip shows me a guy who still has to improve, but should be able to contribute as nickel rusher in his rookie year.

 

[Ring 6]

You said so yourself scheme is a huge part of pass rushing.

That's not exactly like but kind of like a messenger telling Seymour he was to blame for low sack totals.

No. He wasn't told he was responsible for low sack totals, he was told he was doing a bad job rushing the QB and was being replaced in that role.
He responded as if who was the coach to say such a thing about him.
Understand, HIS PLAY caused him to be taken out of the role.
I don't know how after his attitude eruptions and another year of age, all of a sudden his pass rushing skill gets better and BB puts him back in a role he determined he wasn't good enough to have.

 

[Ring 6]

You're half right and half wrong. The best pass rush comes from scheme AND individual talent. Have our schemes changed much over the last seven years? No. Has the individual talent changed much? Yes (minus Seymour, Willie, Vrabel, Colvin...). Our front seven has well underperformed those of the Super Bowl years in regards to getting after the quarterback, and it's because of the talent drain.

Well, duh. Of course talent is needed to. I wasn't implying that terrible players succeed because of scheme.
But half the sacks in the NFL are by guys who are unblocked, or blocked by a RB or mismatch created by scheme.
Part of what has changed is that we haven't blitzed as much.
Part of that is due to the secondary not being as good. Part is due to not being in down and distance to do so as often.
TBC had the 2nd most sacks a Pat player has had in a season under BB last year.
Not to mention that our 2 gap system precludes getting many sacks by individual effort because unlike many teams, our guys are not free to use pass rush moves at the snap and ignore the run.

My point:
-If we play good all around defense and have a secondary that allows us to get aggressive in passing situations we will have more sacks that if we get guys with pass rush skills but can't scheme to get them loose because of d/d and lack of coverage ability in the secondary.

 

[Ring 6]

The Pats NEED to do whatever it takes to get Everson Griffen tomorrow

This guy is an absolute STEAL in the 4th round...he should have been gone by late second

He may have never been on our board. Rumor is that his negative is effort.

 

[Snake Eyes]

But people were calling for a better pass rush every year for the past 5 years, even when Seymour, Vrabel, Colvin, Harrison, Bruschi were still on the defense...

You ALWAYS want a better pass rush, that will never change but I'd like to know how successful we were getting to the opposing QB those years v. last year.

We will NOT win another SB unless we can beat the crap out of the opposing QB, if you want to rely on coverage you will eventually be picked apart by the better QBs that are sure to be in the playoffs.

It's not complicated, if you can protect your QB and beat up the opposing QB you have a very good chance of winning. We've done very little to enhance our ability to do either this draft, and as a result I suspect this will be the last year TB plays for us.

 

[spacecrime]

His skills have not deteriorated.

In 2009 he was not as good as he was in 2008. In 2008 he was not as good as he was in 2007.

That to me is indicative of deterioration.