OT: So long Gocong: Traded to Browns

[DW Toys]

Re: So long Gocong

Just thinking.....could this be a precursor to a McNabb/Asomugha trade?

It would make sense.

If not, it's utterly insane management.

Think you called it.
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

Re: So long Gocong

I'm interested in what the Eagles get for draft picks. There was a discussion here on us giving up a 2nd round pick for Gocong..

I'm thinking Eagles get a 3rd this year and maybe a 5th or 6th next year..

It appears the Eagles have been eying Alex Hall for years. You also have a big issue with Sheldon Browns' contract. I would have given our second #53 and Wilhite for Gocong and Brown in a minute. They had to feel Hall=Gocong.

As the Eagle fans are screaming...They got robbed! I think they are right.....but..

As Brit said this could be the precursor for the McNabb, Asamugha trade. I think the Oakland 2nd rounder #39 goes with that. Asamugha has an impossible contract that the Eagles will obviously extend him to make more palatable. The Eagles could not have had Sheldon Brown who wanted the big bucks plus Asamugha and then Samuel on top of that.

If the Trade goes through, Samuel and Asomugha will be a pretty dynamic CB tandem. I think the "Revis factor" had a lot to do with the Asomugha trade regardless of contract.
DW Toys

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: So long Gocong

For the record, I like Hobbs hustle and kick return abilities, but he's always been a nickel, only started because every other corner was hurt. He's not smooth, he waves his arms and runs choppy and is a magnet for PI calls. Same as Wilhite, difference being we need a nickel and occasional backup, so he's fine. It would be nice to have Hobbs return skills, though.

Also Hobbs has a big yapper, which could be part of the reason we gave him away. If anyone is harboring the delusion that we really, really needed some fifth round picks, I've got some swampland in Florida for you to look at.

What you fail to grasp Ray is you don't get shutdown bookend corners on any team and your #2 is generally only as good as the guy he's playing opposite. Considering who Hobbs was playing opposite he was a bargain even before you factored in his return skills. He was also a victim of circumstance, the over reaction by refs to the Polian rule out of the gate. That has leveled out some what of late, too late for Ellis here particularly where fans were concerned, but I think the combination of his lack of size combined with his heart and grit led to justifiable durability concerns, and coupled with the understanding that even a borderline legit #2 is gonna want $3-4M in this market before his return skills are factored in led BB to make a trade for something else he apparently wanted, OL depth. If Butler develops and Bodden doesn't take a step back after signing his deal and Whilhite develops into a solid nickle and decent backup and Wheatley ever emerges from his funk, it will have been a meh...trade since we likely could have tendered Ellis at the #2 level and retained his services in the secondary and as a returner for two more seasons at beyond reasonable money. I'm assuming Hobbs is recovering better than anticipated from his neck injury or Brown likely wouldn't have been traded. I think Bill expected a lot more from Springs than locker room bonding with AD...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: So long Gocong

It appears the Eagles have been eying Alex Hall for years. You also have a big issue with Sheldon Browns' contract. I would have given our second #53 and Wilhite for Gocong and Brown in a minute. They had to feel Hall=Gocong.

As the Eagle fans are screaming...They got robbed! I think they are right.....but..

As Brit said this could be the precursor for the McNabb, Asamugha trade. I think the Oakland 2nd rounder #39 goes with that. Asamugha has an impossible contract that the Eagles will obviously extend him to make more palatable. The Eagles could not have had Sheldon Brown who wanted the big bucks plus Asamugha and then Samuel on top of that.

If the Trade goes through, Samuel and Asomugha will be a pretty dynamic CB tandem. I think the "Revis factor" had a lot to do with the Asomugha trade regardless of contract.
DW Toys

Talk about insanity... Philly would gladly take #39 for McNabb straight up. If you include Asamougha in the deal there is no point in getting McNabb...or having traded for and now tagged Seymour... And with a cap certain to come back in 2011 there is no way the Eagles can afford to have $25M per tied up in a pair of corners...let alone when Kolb's deal is up at the end of 2010... One way or another the Eagles are going to be extending/signing a QB for 2011 and beyond so... This isn't Madden, cousin, here you have to pay the players.

 

[Brady2Welker]

Re: So long Gocong

Talk about insanity... Philly would gladly take #39 for McNabb straight up. If you include Asamougha in the deal there is no point in getting McNabb...or having traded for and now tagged Seymour... And with a cap certain to come back in 2011 there is no way the Eagles can afford to have $25M per tied up in a pair of corners...let alone when Kolb's deal is up at the end of 2010... One way or another the Eagles are going to be extending/signing a QB for 2011 and beyond so... This isn't Madden, cousin, here you have to pay the players.

Who makes more; Aso or McNabb? And by how much?

 

[RayClay]

Re: So long Gocong

What you fail to grasp Ray is you don't get shutdown bookend corners on any team and your #2 is generally only as good as the guy he's playing opposite. Considering who Hobbs was playing opposite he was a bargain even before you factored in his return skills. He was also a victim of circumstance, the over reaction by refs to the Polian rule out of the gate. That has leveled out some what of late, too late for Ellis here particularly where fans were concerned, but I think the combination of his lack of size combined with his heart and grit led to justifiable durability concerns, and coupled with the understanding that even a borderline legit #2 is gonna want $3-4M in this market before his return skills are factored in led BB to make a trade for something else he apparently wanted, OL depth. If Butler develops and Bodden doesn't take a step back after signing his deal and Whilhite develops into a solid nickle and decent backup and Wheatley ever emerges from his funk, it will have been a meh...trade since we likely could have tendered Ellis at the #2 level and retained his services in the secondary and as a returner for two more seasons at beyond reasonable money. I'm assuming Hobbs is recovering better than anticipated from his neck injury or Brown likely wouldn't have been traded. I think Bill expected a lot more from Springs than locker room bonding with AD...

Well, you know, if the refs are calling them, you better adjust so you don't look like you're committing PI even when you're not.

He was the best #2 on the team at the time, but i always thought he was best suited to nickel.

Of course I'm projecting a second year guy, but Butler looks really smooth and I'm quite optimistic. I was a big Samuel fan way back when most people here were slamming him, but Bodden is a better hitter, covers well and still has good ball skills, making him better overall IMO.

Bottom line, I like Bodden, Butler better than our former duo right now, so if I'm wrong (especially about Bodden, Butler's obviously a projection) y'all can bring it back to me later.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: So long Gocong

Who makes more; Aso or McNabb? And by how much?

Right now on average it's Asamougha, by about $3-4M per. McNabb is in the final year of a deal that pays him $12M. Asamougha is due $16M this season although it may have already been paid since it was to be almost entirely roster bonuses due in March. In which case no reason for Al to trade him since he's already paid him all his guaranteed money... In 2011 the team has to pick up his option on the remainder of his deal and pay him the higher of $16.9M or whatever the QB franchise tag is (anticipated to be in the $20M range). Or he becomes a UFA and cannot be franchise tagged.

Absent an extension that $20M is what it would cost to retain McNabb in 2011, too.

So you could almost swap 'em even up, but no way with a draft pick included... And it would depend on whether you wanted an aging franchise QB for 1 year at $12M with a franchise tag price of $20M the following year or your #1 CB to be making almost $17M the same time your now #2 CB is making $8M+...

But again, if Al has already paid Asamougha in March, that may be where the comments from Schefter and even Asamougha's agent relating to his being untradeable come from... Even a senile owner isn't going to pay $16M for a guy to play CB for another team while paying that teams guy $12M to play QB for him...

 

[DW Toys]

Re: So long Gocong

Talk about insanity... Philly would gladly take #39 for McNabb straight up. If you include Asamugha in the deal there is no point in getting McNabb...or having traded for and now tagged Seymour... And with a cap certain to come back in 2011 there is no way the Eagles can afford to have $25M per tied up in a pair of corners...let alone when Kolb's deal is up at the end of 2010... One way or another the Eagles are going to be extending/signing a QB for 2011 and beyond so... This isn't Madden, cousin, here you have to pay the players.

I agree with you. I agree with you. I am not fighting you. Stop with the Madden stuff. My last version was in 04 I think.

My point is and why the Raiders have been interested in moving him is exactly his contract. It has been made well know that they would take offers on him. It forces the Eagles, who would certainly want Asomugha if his contract was reconstructed, to take him as part of the Trade. I am not the one who started the" Asomugha is going to be part of this" rumor. The sports media did. I am trying to look at it logically as to if it did happen, why and what are the moving parts. These are all based on assumptions but

1-The Eagles have decided to move McNabb

2-The Raiders want in. Crazy Al has decided that Draft Choices do not work out, especially his. They have a pretty fair team at this date minus a QB who is Ryan Leaf-ish as far as busts go.

3-The Eagles have an issue with Brown in that he wants more money and it will become ugly. If he wants too much you might as well talk about Asomugha and see how much difference there can be.

4-The Raiders have now decided that their contract for Asomugha was the stupidist one in the history of the NFL.

5-Moving Gocong and Brown for next to nothing was a polite way of getting rid of the Brown issue and having it be the Browns new problem. (FYI-I would have given a second #53 and a player {Wilhite?} for Brown and Gocong as long as I could have talked to Browns' agent first for terms and have an agreement in place. Bodden and Brown are an upgrade on Bodden and Wilhite)

6-It opens the door for a need at CB and Hobbs will not be that starter. Will they try a rookie CB? I don't think Reid would do that unless he moves Macho there and goes rookie S.

7-Asomugha and Samuel make a great tandem at CB (in "Madden" if you want to say that), BUT only if they can extend Asomugha to get him off his present contract. His agent won't let them tear it up and start anew. No way can any Team take that contract as it is.

8-I think the Raiders use Asomugha as leverage to force the Eagles to take him if the Raiders give up #39 for NcNabb. As crazy at it seems, Asomugha is not worth anywhere near his real value because of that stupid contract.

9-If Brown is gone and his $ demands and McNabb's $ demands are gone, you might could overpay (slightly!!!) for Asomugha and pick up a very decent second round pick.

Makes sense to me what Britt said.
DW Toys

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: So long Gocong

What you fail to grasp Ray is you don't get shutdown bookend corners on any team and your #2 is generally only as good as the guy he's playing opposite. Considering who Hobbs was playing opposite he was a bargain even before you factored in his return skills. He was also a victim of circumstance, the over reaction by refs to the Polian rule out of the gate. That has leveled out some what of late, too late for Ellis here particularly where fans were concerned, but I think the combination of his lack of size combined with his heart and grit led to justifiable durability concerns, and coupled with the understanding that even a borderline legit #2 is gonna want $3-4M in this market before his return skills are factored in led BB to make a trade for something else he apparently wanted, OL depth. If Butler develops and Bodden doesn't take a step back after signing his deal and Whilhite develops into a solid nickle and decent backup and Wheatley ever emerges from his funk, it will have been a meh...trade since we likely could have tendered Ellis at the #2 level and retained his services in the secondary and as a returner for two more seasons at beyond reasonable money. I'm assuming Hobbs is recovering better than anticipated from his neck injury or Brown likely wouldn't have been traded. I think Bill expected a lot more from Springs than locker room bonding with AD...

Hobbs' 2009 salary was, thanks to escalators, over $2.5M.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: So long Gocong

I agree with you. I agree with you. I am not fighting you. Stop with the Madden stuff. My last version was in 04 I think.

My point is and why the Raiders have been interested in moving him is exactly his contract. It has been made well know that they would take offers on him. It forces the Eagles, who would certainly want Asomugha if his contract was reconstructed, to take him as part of the Trade. I am not the one who started the" Asomugha is going to be part of this" rumor. The sports media did. I am trying to look at it logically as to if it did happen, why and what are the moving parts. These are all based on assumptions but

1-The Eagles have decided to move McNabb

2-The Raiders want in. Crazy Al has decided that Draft Choices do not work out, especially his. They have a pretty fair team at this date minus a QB who is Ryan Leaf-ish as far as busts go.

3-The Eagles have an issue with Brown in that he wants more money and it will become ugly. If he wants too much you might as well talk about Asomugha and see how much difference there can be.

4-The Raiders have now decided that their contract for Asomugha was the stupidist one in the history of the NFL.

5-Moving Gocong and Brown for next to nothing was a polite way of getting rid of the Brown issue and having it be the Browns new problem. (FYI-I would have given a second #53 and a player {Wilhite?} for Brown and Gocong as long as I could have talked to Browns' agent first for terms and have an agreement in place. Bodden and Brown are an upgrade on Bodden and Wilhite)

6-It opens the door for a need at CB and Hobbs will not be that starter. Will they try a rookie CB? I don't think Reid would do that unless he moves Macho there and goes rookie S.

7-Asomugha and Samuel make a great tandem at CB (in "Madden" if you want to say that), BUT only if they can extend Asomugha to get him off his present contract. His agent won't let them tear it up and start anew. No way can any Team take that contract as it is.

8-I think the Raiders use Asomugha as leverage to force the Eagles to take him if the Raiders give up #39 for NcNabb. As crazy at it seems, Asomugha is not worth anywhere near his real value because of that stupid contract.

9-If Brown is gone and his $ demands and McNabb's $ demands are gone, you might could overpay (slightly!!!) for Asomugha and pick up a very decent second round pick.

Makes sense to me what Britt said.
DW Toys

Cousin, what part of the trading Asamougha ship sailed early in March because Al had to pay him already don't you get? Al would therefore be trading a free year of Asamougha and #39 to the Eagles for a soon to be 34 year old QB he'd owe $12M.... So he'd be effectively handing the Eagles the 2nd round pick he didn't want to part for in the Seymour deal for the pleasure of effectively paying $28M to fill the starting void left by his $60M bust #1 draft pick of two years ago he's still on the hook for guaranteed money to...

And if he somehow hasn't paid him yet then the deal makes no sense for Philly since their CB's would be eating up $22M+ this season and $25M+ next season (whether they pay Asante or eat his dead cap in a trade or cut) at a time when they have to work out a starters extension for Kolb (whom it would have been better to have tested more thoroughly earlier lest they commit big bucks to a big disappointment) or face having to tag him...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: So long Gocong

Hobbs' 2009 salary was, thanks to escalators, over $2.5M.

Yeah, I'd momentarily forgotten the darned little good for nothing but nickle corner had earned all sorts of playing time escalators...

 

[DW Toys]

Re: So long Gocong

Cousin, what part of the trading Asamougha ship sailed early in March because Al had to pay him already don't you get? Al would therefore be trading a free year of Asamougha and #39 to the Eagles for a soon to be 34 year old QB he'd owe $12M.... So he'd be effectively handing the Eagles the 2nd round pick he didn't want to part for in the Seymour deal for the pleasure of effectively paying $28M to fill the starting void left by his $60M bust #1 draft pick of two years ago he's still on the hook for guaranteed money to...

And if he somehow hasn't paid him yet then the deal makes no sense for Philly since their CB's would be eating up $22M+ this season and $25M+ next season (whether they pay Asante or eat his dead cap in a trade or cut) at a time when they have to work out a starters extension for Kolb (whom it would have been better to have tested more thoroughly earlier lest they commit big bucks to a big disappointment) or face having to tag him...

OK Fair enough. I didn't start this Asomugha thing. Maybe it was Florio some months back. I am of the same camp as you. Unless they can figure out a way to get his salary realistic, Al is stuck with two enormous headaches and Seymour peeking in. I am agreeing with you. Point is it would make sense if the numbers work.
I don't want to see McNabb on the Raiders anyway. A couple more wins hurts us.
DW Toys

 

[RayClay]

Re: So long Gocong

Yeah, I'd momentarily forgotten the darned little good for nothing but nickle corner had earned all sorts of playing time escalators...

Not that it matters, but a nickel corner who can back up and also run back kicks is a valuable player.

Doesn't change my opinion, but i never called anyone a good for nothing.

 

[BradyBranch39]

Re: So long Gocong

I have no idea why Philly made this deal.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: So long Gocong

Not that it matters, but a nickel corner who can back up and also run back kicks is a valuable player.

Doesn't change my opinion, but i never called anyone a good for nothing.

I never said you did, but a lot of folks here did. Ellis was almost as much of a target as Maroney... One of the things that annoys me to this day is how he wore the goat horns after SB 42 when despite playing through injuries that would have leveled anyone other than he or TFB all he did was set the offense up in great field position following one of his returns as well as the lone INT we managed against Eli in that game not to mention basically holding Plax in check for 57 minutes until Pees went jailhouse blitz happy in the red zone, while his teamate who blew not one, or two but three plays that cost us a ring strolled off in his teflon uniform for the pro bowl and FA...to great wailing and gnashing of teeth that we could lose a purported shutdown corner...LOL.

 

[eom]

Re: So long Gocong

I never said you did, but a lot of folks here did. Ellis was almost as much of a target as Maroney... One of the things that annoys me to this day is how he wore the goat horns after SB 42 when despite playing through injuries that would have leveled anyone other than he or TFB all he did was set the offense up in great field position following one of his returns as well as the lone INT we managed against Eli in that game not to mention basically holding Plax in check for 57 minutes until Pees went jailhouse blitz happy in the red zone, while his teamate who blew not one, or two but three plays that cost us a ring strolled off in his teflon uniform for the pro bowl and FA...to great wailing and gnashing of teeth that we could lose a purported shutdown corner...LOL.

x100

it's amazing that dude could run back kicks with those injuries, and when he has to cover #1 receivers in '08 people would cry every time he gave up a catch.

 

[RayClay]

Re: So long Gocong

I never said you did, but a lot of folks here did. Ellis was almost as much of a target as Maroney... One of the things that annoys me to this day is how he wore the goat horns after SB 42 when despite playing through injuries

Say no more. My one huge pet peeve is fatasses chomping on Cheetos and criticizing guys who play the best they can through injuries. Seymour, Maroney, Dillon (sacrilege), Hobbs, even Duane Starks (yes, I went there).

By the way Mo, uh your user name. Just a little insensitive to a pretty tough former QB. Just saying.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: So long Gocong

Say no more. My one huge pet peeve is fatasses chomping on Cheetos and criticizing guys who play the best they can through injuries. Seymour, Maroney, Dillon (sacrilege), Hobbs, even Duane Starks (yes, I went there).

By the way Mo, uh your user name. Just a little insensitive to a pretty tough former QB. Just saying.

QB's in this system need to be more than tough, they need to be driven...and able to think on their feet.

Screw Starks, he was a dogfaker from the get go!!! Even Rodney said so...

 

[patsfan-1982]

Gocong, is not much of a pass rusher and dose not fit the eagels system. but just throwing in brown, who is a pretty good CB this is kinda of a WTF move by the eagels.

 

[RayClay]

Re: So long Gocong

QB's in this system need to be more than tough, they need to be driven...and able to think on their feet.

Screw Starks, he was a dogfaker from the get go!!! Even Rodney said so...

Or at least move their feet.

Whatever on Starks, he gave it an effort on an injured leg and shoulder because BB didn't think Hobbs was ready.