Bodden makes all-improved squad

[slash83]

Extra Points - New England Patriots News and Analysis - Boston.com

He ranked 14th among NFL corners, according to the PFF metrics, in '09.

He was also ranked ahead of Nnamdi Asomugha (17th) and ... Asante Samuel (36th).

Not saying he's better then those two players, but I'm just saying...

 

[Calciumee]

Just a shame the actual team list calls Mangina the Mangenius!

 

[eom]

I have no idea which metrics pff looks at, but I'd be willing to bet these corners are simply judged on plays where they are thrown at.
I think asomugha was thrown at something like 28x all year, which is a pretty strong metric in itself.

 

[supafly]

Extra Points - New England Patriots News and Analysis - Boston.com

He ranked 14th among NFL corners, according to the PFF metrics, in '09.

He was also ranked ahead of Nnamdi Asomugha (17th) and ... Asante Samuel (36th).

Not saying he's better then those two players, but I'm just saying...

Not to add any negativity to a good post, but I'm not sure how much I trust PFF's metrics and rankings anymore after they ranked Gerrard and Flacco above Tom Brady last year. As if that weren't enough, they also ranked Kelly Washington over Randy Moss too.

Bodden had a good year, he was more than servicable as our best CB. I am very glad that he was re-signed etc, and feel quite comfortable with him back there. That said, I am not quite convinced I wouldn't take Samuel or Asomugha over him--they are clearly 2 of the top 10-12 CB's in the NFL. I realize Bodden's consistancy is better than Asante's chance taking in most cases, but Samuel and Asomugha are clearly game changers. Bottom line is I'm not really sure who would take Bodden over them, as he is decently good, but there are likely in another league altogether.

 

[Sicilian]

Yeah, PFF is starting to lose credibility with me. CBs are so hard to judge based on metrics for the reason stated above. Really, if the CB is doing his job, the ball just shouldn't be in his area.

 

[spacecrime]

I have no idea which metrics pff looks at, but I'd be willing to bet these corners are simply judged on plays where they are thrown at.
I think asomugha was thrown at something like 28x all year, which is a pretty strong metric in itself.

Not when you consider that 21 of the 28 times he was thrown against the receiver caught the pass, 75% completion rate which ranks him 104th out of 107.

Passes thrown Bodden's way were completed only 50% of the time, the 10th best of the 107 ranked CBs.

ProFootballFocus.com - By Position

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

What kind of system puts Asomugha at 17th among CB"s

 

[supafly]

What kind of system puts Asomugha at 17th among CB"s

The same sysytem that has such superstar CB's as Terell Thomas and Tramon Williams rounding out the top 10

On the other hand, it did have Wilhite as the 91st ranked CB out of 107, so maybe there is some credibility after all.

On a serious note, it was a great sign that Bodden only gave up 45 out of 90 attempts, as another poster stated.

 

[Sciz]

I see two big problems with PFF. First of all, they only can grade players they can see. Secondly, all of their rankings categories are weighted evenly, so a CB's run defense counts as much as his coverage ability.

 

[eom]

people get too hung up on their ratings.

pff is a tremendous source for info that can't be found elsewhere --- I've never even done more than glance at the ratings.

 

[PatsCanDoIt]

people get too hung up on their ratings.

pff is a tremendous source for info that can't be found elsewhere --- I've never even done more than glance at the ratings.

Exactly. There is a lot of info. If you go to specific game stats you can see things like QB rating for a certain area of the field. Under receiving and coverage you can see who the best and worst defenders were. For CBs and WRs some of you guys or gals should check out targets and catch percentage. Where else can you find that stuff. Funny how people stick with their subjective opinion about a player rather than give an objective source credit.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Where else can you find that stuff. Funny how people stick with their subjective opinion about a player rather than give an objective source credit.

Numbers don't lie. But trying to combine numbers into a "rating" always introduces subjectivity. (e.g., Why should run defense be weighted the same as pass defense? Why not more, or three times less, etc.?)

 

[mcsully]

interesting

 

[ausbacker]

What kind of system puts Asomugha at 17th among CB"s

Ones that don't take into account that quarterbacks don't throw at his side of the field.

 

[RayClay]

Trying to use stats to judge cornerbacks is hopeless, good luck with that.

I would like to say, I was prepared to be satisfied we signed Wilfork, I really thought Bodden was a goner.

Signing them, and the young cornerbacks we have is much more important than any new signing is likely to be. Bodden and Butler look like a potential killer combination and people forget that mystery man Wheatley and Wilhite are competing for backup and situational roles most likely. If thir attitudes are good, we should be set for years.

Wilhite hustles and looks like a good nickel, though lacking as a starting corner. Wheatley is a mystery, but if he's a washout, we pick up a cut from someone else, there's really no downside.

People forget that a good player that has proven capable in our system is worth many times what a "maybe" superstar from elsewhere is.

See Adalius, Galloway and Greg Lewis just last year.

 

[emoney_33]

Trying to use stats to judge cornerbacks is hopeless, good luck with that.

Aside from the obvious outlier in Asomugha being thrown at 28 times all year (doesn't he get bored?) do you see any obviously glaring errors in their rankings as compared to another analysis you can point to?

I think stats, and specifically peripheral data like catch percentage, YAC, TD, INT, PD etc.. are valuable in analyzing how a CB played.

 

[RayClay]

Aside from the obvious outlier in Asomugha being thrown at 28 times all year (doesn't he get bored?) do you see any obviously glaring errors in their rankings as compared to another analysis you can point to?

I think stats, and specifically peripheral data like catch percentage, YAC, TD, INT, PD etc.. are valuable in analyzing how a CB played.

We disagree. Baseball lends itself well to statistical analysis. The way to analyze football is to watch the games. Teams play different defenses and coverages on every play. The best corners don't get thrown at.

If you think you can accurately judge cornerbacks by statistics, use them. I don't.

 

[Nikolai]

Another PFF outlier is Darius Butler. He wasn't a world-beater, but he got hammered because of the PI plays, one (or two?) of which were bogus Indy flags.

 

[emoney_33]

We disagree. Baseball lends itself well to statistical analysis. The way to analyze football is to watch the games. Teams play different defenses and coverages on every play. The best corners don't get thrown at.

If you think you can accurately judge cornerbacks by statistics, use them. I don't.

Statistics for CBs aren't perfect but they are a whole ton better than analysis by watching on TV. If you could break down the coach's tapes then yeah absolutely visual analysis combined with statistics would give you the most accurate depiction.

Also the human mind can't possibly accurately judge 32 CBs over 16 games on memory and a TV feed. It's OK to understand the limitations of the human mind.

Revis got thrown at a lot btw, and he's one of the best corners. All of the top corners were thrown at enough for PFF statistics (the peripherals) to show what looks like a good analysis except for the one amazing outlier in Asomugha.

 

[RayClay]

Statistics for CBs aren't perfect but they are a whole ton better than analysis by watching on TV. If you could break down the coach's tapes then yeah absolutely visual analysis combined with statistics would give you the most accurate depiction.

Also the human mind can't possibly accurately judge 32 CBs over 16 games on memory and a TV feed. It's OK to understand the limitations of the human mind.

Revis got thrown at a lot btw, and he's one of the best corners. All of the top corners were thrown at enough for PFF statistics (the peripherals) to show what looks like a good analysis except for the one amazing outlier in Asomugha.

I judge a cornerback on how he moves, is he smooth, does he hit, does he cover well, does he get faked out of position, does he recover, does he have a nose for the ball/good hands.

Different types work well in different systems.

By all means attempt to guess how a cornerback from one system would fare in another based on statistics. I only care if they are effective in ours.