PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

SMY is my new favorite Pats reporter


Status
Not open for further replies.
Can someone give a link to that chat?
 
We have no idea if sophomores like Edelman won't end up as a one year wonder either...nothing is close to being in stone
None of us know for sure but we do know that as a general rule if players are to take a step up it's in their 2nd and 3rd years. With Butler, Vollmer, Edelman, Pryor and to some extent Chung looking good as rookies it's reasonable, though not for sure, to assume there will be some improvement. Then you add McKenzie and Tate who are much more advanced than rookies as they know the system and there's good reason to believe there will be significant improvement. Then we have four picks in the first two rounds of a deep draft. It's not a stretch to expect good contributions from the 2009 and 2010 drafts this year, it's a stretch to not expect it.
 
And what's with her defending Adalius Thomas ? SMY, I like you but you need to wake up on that one.

Yeah, I noticed that too. I don't know what to make of it. SMY thinks that Afailus "has played his last down" here, yet is also "not sure he's such the bad apple in the locker room that he's portrayed to be." What's going on, then?

Maybe that thing on ADT's head has hypnotized her...
 
Nobody (intelligent) thinks of "playmakers" as workout warriors, high$$ guys, or "stat hounds." The term speaks for itself. The Willie McGinests, Rodney Harrisons, and Ty Laws of the world to name just a few. Guys that are capable of consistently and sometimes single-handedly reeking havoc on any given play. Game-changers. Very few of these players exist and the Pats have none on defense and exactly one besides Brady (who also happens to have a separated shoulder and bad back) on offense.

Let me clarify then. This off-season, people have complained the Pats didn't get Boldin and/or Peppers. Playmakers, right? Boldin gets huge stats but is almost never the guy that makes the key play at key moments in the game. Peppers is a unique physical talent, but his contributions when the game is on the line almost never match his potential.

My point is that you just don't know who will become the "playmakers". So while I agree that the Pats (and every other team) needs them, you can't specifically get them. You can acquire talented, dedicated players but you have to hope that they rise to the occasion when the opportunity presents itself. I think the Pats have plenty of talented, dedicated players and I'm confident they will have more in a month. They can't become "playmakers" until (hopefully) sometime in the fall.
 
Nice breakdown overall. I don't agree with everything she is saying either, but disagree with you on the above paragraph [for beginners]. Nobody (intelligent) thinks of "playmakers" as workout warriors, high$$ guys, or "stat hounds." The term speaks for itself. The Willie McGinests, Rodney Harrisons, and Ty Laws of the world to name just a few. Guys that are capable of consistently and sometimes single-handedly reeking havoc on any given play. Game-changers. Very few of these players exist and the Pats have none on defense and exactly one besides Brady (who also happens to have a separated shoulder and bad back) on offense.

Exactly.
On offense, playmakers create 1st downs (sustain drives) & TDs (complete drives);
On defense, they create sacks, QB hits, fumbles, INTs, and 3rd/4th-down stops.
 
Last edited:
You mean losing a receiver averaging over 100 catches/year as a Pat leaves a big hole at the position? Of course there is a hole. She is "one of the ones" with "the ones" including everyone. The questions are a) how much of that hole can BTate fill and b) when will Welker be back at near 100%.

There were people who were insisting that Aiken did a fine job last year, regardless of Welker and company. There are also those that are basically arguing "Yeah, Welker is great, but we've got Edelman, so no worries!". I'd expect that she's distancing herself from those people, and rightly so.

The locker room has been/is/will continue to be strong enough to provide the structure and environment for dedicated players to succeed. It never was/isn't/will never be enough to "absorb" anyone that wants to be a problem child. The first sentence also applies to a handful of the top teams in the NFL. The second sentence applies to every team in the NFL.

Given that even players on the team have talked about the locker room issues, I'd say that you're being awfully dismissive of this as an issue.

"Playmakers" is a completely loaded word. It has come to mean everything from "high-priced" to "freakish athlete" to "stat hound". The Pats need none of these things in isolation. The Pats need more players that make big plays in big situations. They could make big bucks (or not). They could be workout warriors (or not). They could be record-breakers (or not). The Pats could have a handful of "playmakers" on the roster right now that haven't had the experience or opportunity to come up big yet. Or not.

I'm with you on this. Belichick's next first round draft choice that goes bust will be his first. When people stop insisting that all players drafted in the first 6 rounds become All-Pro players or be considered busts, a more reasonable draft analysis will be achieved.

I really want the anti-Moss crowd to stand up and be accountable this year. Assuming he and Brady are healthy, Moss should be a huge factor in the Pats success. So if Moss-ageddon doesn't happen, these statements should be revisited.

Moss has had his moments, but has generally been an excellent addition to the Patriots, so I'm not sure why either side feels the need to be so black and white on the topic.

Seriously. The Pats pretty much have 4 gimme games (besides the "any give Sunday" factor)...2xBuffalo, Cleveland, Detroit. That gives the Pats 12 games (7 of them at home) and only needing 6 wins to reach double digits. Let me repeat...12 games, 7 at home, need to win 6. So while 8-8 or worse is certainly a possibility, it strains credibility to say that the Pats are "looking at an 8-8 season".

10 wins last year. A tougher schedule this year. Seeming improvement from the Jets. Welker likely out for a fair portion of the season.

I don't buy the 8 wins scenario, but I don't see where it strains credibility to look at where the team is at this point and come up with that number.

As for the "right now" part. Of course the Pats have roster space they need to fill. This is the deepest draft in a generation and the Pats have a boatload of picks, a handful of them early. A good number of these players will need roles and responsibilities from day one. They won't just be camp fodder or fighting for a special teams spot. So some of those "holes" are actually reserved seats for some talented players (dare I say "playmakers") added a month from now.

I pointed this out on another thread, but it bears repeating here: The Patriots average about 1 successful free agent and 1 starting rookie each year of late. That would not be enough to make up for all the doom and gloom. The odds are that the improvement will need to come from within, particularly if the team keeps largely out of the free agent market.

OLB, DE, TE and WR are definitely needs (how many top 50 picks do the Pats have?). At ILB, the Pats have a relatively high draft pick they haven't even unwrapped yet. Even punting Kaczur, the Pats are relatively deep at all positions but center... and last time I looked you only started one of those. The Pats still have 2 picks from last year who haven't had an opportunity yet. These positions are only needs this year if the Pats are going to flush players, and even then a good number would have to go.

With Neal down, this team was a train wreck at guard last season, so I don't know where you're coming up with the notion of the team being relatively deep at guard, unless you're predicting a successful Kaczur move to the position. As for ILB, Guyton is weak against the run. Counting on an essential rookie (McKenzie) to step into the breach is a risky proposition. Then again, drafting a rookie to do the same thing is just as risky, outside of the injury factor.

Know what other teams had ILB's that weren't strong against the run? They should be familiar because they played in a pretty big game in February. So go ahead and lust for McClain in the draft or look for the next Ted Johnson or wonder how many NT's can fit in a 4-3 alignment. Just don't be surprised when the Pats are sitting at home watching the playoffs after crushing losses against Manning and Rivers and Roethlisberger and Favre and Rodgers and ... This is a passing league and almost all the Pats big losses under Belichick have been the result of the inability to get the opposing QB off the field at crunch time.

Go ahead and mention the Ravens game. Try explaining how a slower, stouter ILB would have stopped that 80 yard run or prevented the Ravens from having a handful of drives start inside the Pats 25.

Generally speaking, if you stop an opponent's running game and make it one-dimensional, you make it much easier to play pass defense. Also, the Ravens destroyed the Patriots almost exclusively on the ground because, if you can't stop the run, opponents have no need to pass against you. As for the explanation you seek, if you can't see how a better run stopper might have helped stop a run, I don't know what to tell you (Of course, the unwritten part of your request requires that someone point out that the team also needs that DE improvement on the right side in order to solidify the run defense). It's not just one position, which is why it's surely a major concern for the Patriots' brass.

I actually agree with you on SMY, but this chat was full of "conventional wisdom" and very little depth or insight. While it is sure to get high ratings from the reactionary "I can run the Pats better" crowd, it is pretty old and stale. There are plenty of legitimate questions around the team-building and on-field play of the Pats. And almost all of it doesn't involve Maroney's breakfast.

Some of it is 'stale', much of it is not. Something else that's 'stale' is the ostrich routine that's ongoing from those who can't bear to hear a discouraging word. It works both ways. In a 24 hour news cycle, with 24 hour message boards, pretty much everything goes stale in a matter of hours or days.
 
None of us know for sure but we do know that as a general rule if players are to take a step up it's in their 2nd and 3rd years. With Butler, Vollmer, Edelman, Pryor and to some extent Chung looking good as rookies it's reasonable, though not for sure, to assume there will be some improvement. Then you add McKenzie and Tate who are much more advanced than rookies as they know the system and there's good reason to believe there will be significant improvement. Then we have four picks in the first two rounds of a deep draft. It's not a stretch to expect good contributions from the 2009 and 2010 drafts this year, it's a stretch to not expect it.

Thats all true. But there is a flip side to that coin. Older players like Matt Light, Stephen Neal, Randy Moss, Shawn Springs, Fred Taylor, Sammy Morris, Kevin Faulk, etc. all get a year older and a year slower. As the young players move towards their prime, the older players move away from their prime.
 
"...as this team stands right now - notice, I said right now - I do think we're looking at an 8-8 season or so. There are a lot of holes..."

Did all the other teams draft already? I'm sorry, that's just silly. We had a recovering Brady and a horrible judgment on receivers, and a big lazy **** in Thomas last year and still had 10 wins.

We've tied up Wilfork, bodden and TBC before we start drafting and filling in. We used to have UDFA in two starting spots on the line, now we have an experienced guy and two draft picks as backups and we have no linemen.

Everybody has holes. If we don't address LB and DE I'll be pissed, but i don't see why we won't. We've got to do better at receiver than last year.

Plus we have a ton of young defensive players with another years experience.

Seems like a pretty pessimistic outlook to me, give our 4 picks in 2 rounds.
 
Exactly.
On offense, playmakers create 1st downs (sustain drives) & TDs (complete drives);
On defense, they create sacks, QB hits, fumbles, INTs, and 3rd/4th-down stops.

2009 stats...

TDs: 6th (only 3 behind the mighty Colts)
1st downs: 1st
Sacks: 23rd (obvious need)
Fumbles: Tied for 8th
Ints: Tied for 11th
3rd down %: 12th
4th down %: 13th

Outside of getting to the QB consistently, I don't see a major problem with the sheer numbers. The Pats have players who can do those things. They need players (hopefully even the ones currently on the roster) to get those big plays at big times during big games.
 
I like SMY the reporter but disagree with several of her opinions, although I do understand her hatred of the Scourge of the Great White North, the Damn Canadians, SMY quote... "...I've never been a Kaczur fan."

Watch it... :snob:
 
Last edited:
This post is comical to say the least.
I find it funny that the Pats added such talented players as Chung, Vollmer, Brace, and Edelman last year, yet they supposedly have more holes now than ever.
Edelman was a great find, but Brace didn't show us sh*t. Vollmer was a huge reach at the time but showed he could be a starting LT in the NFL. Chung and Brace are the ones that are on the hot seat. If Chung can't beat out James Sanders or McGowan, he's a bust.
The OLB situation is actually better than prior to the start of last year because of TBC finally finding success.
If it weren't for the emergence of TBC, the Pats would've easily been the worst LB core in the NFL. With that said, they're still pretty bad if not one of the worst.
The secondary is probably the most solid it's been since 2003.
Funniest comment of them all. If you really believe that, you are in denial and that 2003 secondary should be insulted by that comment.
The ILB situation hasn't changed since last year except that Mayo and Guyton have both gained experience.
I don't know where you are going with that comment but Guyton has only proven he is not a starting ILB in the NFL and Mayo is not a SILB. The Pats need someone that likes to bang bodies and free up Mayo as that is not his strong suit.
Contrary to her belief the 2006 draft wasn't poor. It was average.
When your kicker is your most consistent player, your draft is really bad. By 2011, their kicker will probably be the last man standing from that draft class. That's pathetic.
The 2008 draft can't be graded until after this upcoming season. Mayo has been good. Wilhite has filled in well. Slater has been exceptional on special teams contrary to most people's understanding (or should I say LACK of). This is the make or break years for Wheatley and Crable.
As we stand right now, their 2008 draft class has been horrible. Mayo is good but nothing special. While Wilhite is terrible in coverage, at least he stays on the field and tries. The same cannot be said for Wheatley who has been flat out worthless. Crable is a joke and won't make the team this season but Slater does a good job defending on special teams.

*You will probably not see this post because you probably still have me on ignore.
 
Last edited:
There were people who were insisting that Aiken did a fine job last year, regardless of Welker and company. There are also those that are basically arguing "Yeah, Welker is great, but we've got Edelman, so no worries!". I'd expect that she's distancing herself from those people, and rightly so.

I don't know of anyone making either of those statements. Aiken did a fine job last year...considering he is a ST guy pressed into duty due to injuries and failed WR acquisitions. Edelman is a reasonable placeholder for Welker until he gets back...with MANY worries until Welker actually does get back. I don't expect Aiken to get #3 snaps this year or for Edelman to produce anywhere near Welker levels. That doesn't mean they both don't have a place on the WR depth chart.

Given that even players on the team have talked about the locker room issues, I'd say that you're being awfully dismissive of this as an issue.

Not dismissive at all. SMY was intimating that the Pats used to be able to take on malcontents and "absorb" them based on the strength of the locker room...but now they can't. My point is that they never could. Dillon and Moss were smart, dedicated players that just needed the appropriate winning culture, attitude and structure to thrive. They weren't turned from the dark side. And that winning culture, attitude and structure still exists. It isn't immune to bad chemistry guys and it never was.

I pointed this out on another thread, but it bears repeating here: The Patriots average about 1 successful free agent and 1 starting rookie each year of late. That would not be enough to make up for all the doom and gloom. The odds are that the improvement will need to come from within, particularly if the team keeps largely out of the free agent market.

Agree on the improvement from within. The Pats have several players on the roster that have yet to make significant contributions. If none of them step up, I would agree that this draft won't be enough to make up for that. Also, the draft picks this year will almost certainly not be counted on to take a starting spot and not come off the field. There are players already at all of the positions of need (even TE now) but they are all either limited, situational or unknown. The rooks will need to get their fair share of snaps...not take them all.

With Neal down, this team was a train wreck at guard last season, so I don't know where you're coming up with the notion of the team being relatively deep at guard, unless you're predicting a successful Kaczur move to the position. As for ILB, Guyton is weak against the run. Counting on an essential rookie (McKenzie) to step into the breach is a risky proposition. Then again, drafting a rookie to do the same thing is just as risky, outside of the injury factor.

Agree with all of the risk factors you mention, which is what makes player acquisition so interesting. Ohrnberger, McKenzie, Tate, Crable, Wheatley, etc. are all wildcards. If they all bust, the Pats are in trouble. If some step up and contribute, the needs at those positions get a lot less dire.

Generally speaking, if you stop an opponent's running game and make it one-dimensional, you make it much easier to play pass defense. Also, the Ravens destroyed the Patriots almost exclusively on the ground because, if you can't stop the run, opponents have no need to pass against you. As for the explanation you seek, if you can't see how a better run stopper might have helped stop a run, I don't know what to tell you (Of course, the unwritten part of your request requires that someone point out that the team also needs that DE improvement on the right side in order to solidify the run defense). It's not just one position, which is why it's surely a major concern for the Patriots' brass.

Rice got his run because of his smaller size, quickness and speed. Not sure how a bigger, slower ILB would have made a difference. As for the rest of the game, the Ravens were 3 yards and a cloud of dust (or whatever that black stuff is). That only worked because their average scoring drive was about 20 yards. Put the '85 Bears out there and the Ravens still score.

As for making teams one-dimensional, the Colts, Chargers, Steelers (AKA the AFC elite) are already one-dimensional. Wouldn't it make more sense to field a team that stops what they already want to do and are good at?
 
2009 stats...

TDs: 6th (only 3 behind the mighty Colts)
1st downs: 1st
Sacks: 23rd (obvious need)
Fumbles: Tied for 8th
Ints: Tied for 11th
3rd down %: 12th
4th down %: 13th

Outside of getting to the QB consistently, I don't see a major problem with the sheer numbers. The Pats have players who can do those things. They need players (hopefully even the ones currently on the roster) to get those big plays at big times during big games.

And out comes the stats-as-facts card. Stats mean next to nothing and can be cherry picked and manipulated to fit anyone's agenda.

I'm hopeful like yourself and believe we have a solid core of players on defense. But the super bowl teams always had players who were consitently able to come through with a big play at the most crucial moments. So maybe Bill's philosophy about this was closer to mine when he signed AD. Now it looks like he just wants solid if unspectacular players at every position--no superstars. Which is fine if the unit works together as a whole and you have talent at every position.
 
Last edited:
Statistics mean nothing unless you make the big plays at the right time.

How much of those statistics were inflated by some blowout wins against overmatched opponents?

The problem I think people have is not that they're comparing the Patriots against other teams in the league it's that they fail to realize in so doing, you only wish for them...mediocrity. "Oh, they draft better than the Raiders!"

Not good enough if you want to constantly compete for a championship. If you're happy being above average, that's fine. I'm not. I want them to keep dominating and when you're the best and other teams pick away at your free agents, you need to keep hitting home runs with your draft and your free agent picks.

You can take your general statistics regarding the rest of the NFL and...well, you know what to do with those!

I'll admit they're a far better run team than most of the league. But I want them to keep being the best and that requires more than what we've got from the current team.

The foundations are crumbling. This year's draft needs to put a bunch of mortar and bricks to shore it up.
 
A couple new WRs would make the O-line look fantastic. Teams were basically laughing at Stanback and Aiken and sending extra men at the OL.
 
Teams were basically laughing at Stanback and Aiken and sending extra men at the OL.

lol it's true

Aiken and Stanback would struggle to catch a ball in practice. Why they were even on the field is beyond me
 
I don't know of anyone making either of those statements. Aiken did a fine job last year...considering he is a ST guy pressed into duty due to injuries and failed WR acquisitions. Edelman is a reasonable placeholder for Welker until he gets back...with MANY worries until Welker actually does get back. I don't expect Aiken to get #3 snaps this year or for Edelman to produce anywhere near Welker levels. That doesn't mean they both don't have a place on the WR depth chart.

You can find statements to the effect I was attempting to convey in multiple threads on this site, just to point out one place. As for Aiken doing a fine job, we are in complete disagreement.

Not dismissive at all. SMY was intimating that the Pats used to be able to take on malcontents and "absorb" them based on the strength of the locker room...but now they can't. My point is that they never could. Dillon and Moss were smart, dedicated players that just needed the appropriate winning culture, attitude and structure to thrive. They weren't turned from the dark side. And that winning culture, attitude and structure still exists. It isn't immune to bad chemistry guys and it never was.

Dillon was reportedly never any great shakes in the locker room. The difference was that, back then, there was enough leadership to overcome a pain in the ass or two. This season, with Bruschi, Harrison, Seymour, etc... moving on or becoming minimized, that was not the case, particularly on the defensive side of the ball.

Rice got his run because of his smaller size, quickness and speed. Not sure how a bigger, slower ILB would have made a difference. As for the rest of the game, the Ravens were 3 yards and a cloud of dust (or whatever that black stuff is). That only worked because their average scoring drive was about 20 yards. Put the '85 Bears out there and the Ravens still score.

Rice got his run because the Patriots run defense couldn't hold up against better teams. With New England essentially playing without a RDE against the run, and with Mayo still seemingly impacted by his injury and Guyton being so weak against the run, it was a matter of time until a quality offensive line ran roughshod over the team in the playoffs. Without Welker to help the offense defray the problem, that defense was completely exposed in that game. You can be sure that RDE and the ILBs will be targeted early and often next year if BB doesn't fix the problems.

As for making teams one-dimensional, the Colts, Chargers, Steelers (AKA the AFC elite) are already one-dimensional. Wouldn't it make more sense to field a team that stops what they already want to do and are good at?

1.) The Chargers weren't one-dimensional until this season.

2.) The Steelers have generally not been one-dimensional when their RBs have been healthy.

3.) The Colts were not one-dimensional until 2008. They had James and (when he was still capable) Addai taking pressure off of Manning.

4.) The Patriots' have tried to beat the Colts by slowing down Manning. The Colts are 5-1 in the last 6 meetings, with the only win coming during the undefeated 2007 run. Even that was a close game with the outcome in doubt and the Patriots trailing in the 4th quarter.
 
I cannot think of an easier or more pathetic job than "reporter". WTH do I care if a reporter has lost faith in Maroney, or if they think Maroney is fantastic? Give me the facts, hit the buffet, and let me form my opinions.
 
I cannot think of an easier or more pathetic job than "reporter". WTH do I care if a reporter has lost faith in Maroney, or if they think Maroney is fantastic? Give me the facts, hit the buffet, and let me form my opinions.

Oh, stop showing off. Know it all!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Patriots Kraft ‘Involved’ In Decision Making?  Zolak Says That’s Not the Case
MORSE: Final First Round Patriots Mock Draft
Slow Starts: Stark Contrast as Patriots Ponder Which Top QB To Draft
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/24: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/23: News and Notes
MORSE: Final 7 Round Patriots Mock Draft, Matthew Slater News
Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Back
Top