Idle thoughts - looking at the WR position

[patfanken]

The 2007 version could split double teams and go get the ball at it's highest point. The 2009 version struggled getting off jams and shaking average coverage and his ideal routes take too long to develop so his QB is getting beat to **** and when they reluctantly bring him across the middle they don't gain anything, just expose him to injury for diminishing returns, and it smacks of a contrived strategy to keep him engaged and involved. I fear in a contract season believing an extension is not forthcoming here, you won't see him putting it all on the line too often...I'm going to be interested to see if he and Brady remain joined at the hip after last season or if that dynamic starts to shift in favor of a longer range view.

That is certainly a less than flattering rebut to my observations, but not altogether untrue. I would ask though, what part of his diminished play (according to you) over the last 2 years could be attributed to Brady's injury, Cassel's inexperience, and his back problem in 2008, and Brady's injuries, and his own separated shoulder, in 2009.

And even if all you say is true, somehow he managed some elite production. Don't forget only 5 other receivers IN THE LEAGUE had more yds than Moss, and NONE had more TDs, and NONE had to share the ball with another elite WR.

BTW- I for one will look closely at that "dynamic" you mentioned. A clear indication IMO would be to see if Moss is a captain at the end of camp. If he is, then all is well. If he isn't, than that will be an indication that not all is well.

Patten is likely here mostly to lead the way, something our #1 can't really do. But in a pinch if healthy he's fine as a 4th or 5th WR. He's another guy who found a way...

Well, IMHO, on a best case scenerio, Patten proves to be a mentor of sorts to the young guys we have, we draft, and new guys we pick up as to the doing things the "right" way....DURING PRESEASON. However I'd like to think that when the season comes around we will have 6 other guys that will better either better players right then, or project TO BE better within a year.

Brady has 5-6 good to great seasons left. Enough with the musical chair retread and aging WR's. It's time to develop and retain a core group for him to ride into the sunset with. And they'd be well served to continue to maintain their focus on that unit so it is set up well to help transition his eventual successor in the way Brown and Patten did. Teambuilding isn't simply a matter of overhyped talent collection or Snyder would have managed to win a Lombardi by now. It's all about system fits, just like it was with the QB. I know they struck out on Bethel and CJ, that you can't coach speed is true in more ways than one, but that they nailed it on Welker and Edleman more recently gives me reason to hope they can again start identifying guys who fit the system (smart, tough, instinctive) as Branch and Givens once did on the road to back to back championships.

I agree with your comment on Brady. I think everyone would like to have a group of WRs that are the same basic group every year, but the fact remains that EVERY teams turns over around 20% of its roster EVERY year. If there is one CONSTANT in the NFL it is CHANGE (and you also have a great example of an oxymoron). The Pats have dealt with it very well.... thus far. A key to their consistent success over the last decade.

I also have no problem with missing on BJ and CJ. In fact, I would argue that we DID get enough production out Bethel to make the pick worthwhile. Well not exactly true value, but not an entire miss. You are right. In the NFL, superior speed is worth taking a chance on.

As to Branch, I doubt we will see him back, even as a UFA. From what I hear, he isn't the same receiver he was when he left. He was always an injury waiting to happen, and they kept happening throughout his Seahawk career, and I think they have taken a toll on Deon.

His great ability was his separation speed in making cuts. IIRC despite a relatively slow 40, he had the best 3 cone time at his combine. He was successful because he ran great routes and created separation when he made his cuts. He was never a deep threat, and if he doesn't have that "burst" anymore, he's just another 4.6 WR with no size, and a bad injury history; trying to stay in the league on smarts....and didn't we just sign a guy like that in Patten.

2007 was great fun...while it lasted. But that ship has sailed for a number of reasons and tring to recreate it would be a fools game, as 2008 and 2009 underscored.
Today 02:10 PM

You are right that 2007 was an once in a lifetime situation, but this team had great success in 2008 DESPITE losing Brady, Harrison, etc. I don't care if they didn't make the playoffs, because they got caught in a once every 30 year anomaly. Winning 11 games under those conditions was a superb accomplishment. In 2009, we saw them win the division while their D underwent a drastic revamping. Most NFL teams wouldn't have faired as well.

Like most things in life, things are never as good a we hope, but they are also never as bad as we fear. Buck up MO, we will be in the hunt in January.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Rookies, go with the rooks.

 

[patfanken]

Rookies, go with the rooks.

Spoke like a true Draft Geek - My question is WHICH rookies, Box. Who should we be looking for in those first 4 picks, and who can you enlighten us on might be of value with we start using those 5 projected picks in the 7th

 

[spacecrime]

Don't trust the patriots.com measurement on that one -- Edelman's just 5'10" by a real yardstick, and he and Welker are the same weight.

No way they can be the same weight. Edelman's taller AND stockier. Did you ever get a chance to see them standing next to each other on the sidelines of a game?

I understand if you want to deduct 2" and 15# from Edelman's stats if you want, but if you do then don't take Welker's patriots.com stats as gospel either.

 

[JMarr]

No way they can be the same weight. Edelman's taller AND stockier. Did you ever get a chance to see them standing next to each other on the sidelines of a game?

I understand if you want to deduct 2" and 15# from Edelman's stats if you want, but if you do then don't take Welker's patriots.com stats as gospel either.

Regardless, Edelman is still ideal for the slot. He's a natural. Hopefully his strength and size helps him to better absorb the punishment that position takes. I'd be ecstatic if Edelman develops into a more versatle receiver and we see a lot of him and Welker on the field at the same time.

 

[patchick]

he and Welker are the same weight

Actually, Welker and Edelman are NOT the same height.

Why no, they're not, so I didn't say they were.

On overall build and weight, eyeball tests seem to vary. To me Welker actually looks a bit stockier, but others clearly perceive differently. Coming out of college -- the only reliable measurements we ever get -- both weighed in at 195 lbs. Regardless, I'd be surprised to see the Pats move Edelman into more of a downfield role, given that short-area quickness is his obvious strength.

I suspect this is going to be one of those "throw a bunch of players at the wall and see who sticks" situations. That did work out ok at CB last year, so there's hope.

 

[ayjackson]

Julian Edelman (Pro Day)

Ht: 5103
Wt: 195 lb
40 yard dash: 4.52
10 yard split: 1.52
3 cone: 6.62
short shuttle: 3.92

Wes Welker (Pro Day)

Ht: 5086
Wt: 195 lb
40 yard dash: 4.65
10 yard split: nm
3 cone: 7.09
short shuttel: 4.01

 

[ayjackson]

Mardy Gilyard (Pro Day)

Ht: 5117
Wt: 187 lb
40 yard dash: 4.47
10 yard split: 1.51
3 cone: 6.71
short shuttle: 4.06

Golden Tate (Combine)

Ht: 5102
Wt: 199 lb
40 yard dash: 4.42
10 yard split: 1.51
3 cone: 7.12
short shuttel: 4.34

 

[patchick]

Mardy Gilyard (Pro Day)
...
Golden Tate (Combine)
...

OK, while you're at it, how about:

Andre Roberts (Combine)

Ht: 5107
Wt: 195 lb
40 yard dash: 4.40
10 yard split: 1.52
3 cone: 6.77
short shuttle: 4.15

Great hands, great work ethic, strong punt returner, moves like a 3rd-down RB type with the ball in his hands.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Spoke like a true Draft Geek - My question is WHICH rookies, Box. Who should we be looking for in those first 4 picks, and who can you enlighten us on might be of value with we start using those 5 projected picks in the 7th

Spoken like a true curmudgeon Ken, where are all these great UFA options? Put simply NE liked the UFA market so well they signed street free agent David Patten. Terrell Owens? Shirley [sic], you can't be serious! The goal is to make the team more cohesive, not more dysfunctional. Reed? He visited, perhaps he'll eventually sign, but for now he's a problem for later.

We have varying stories on whether NE even made an effort to trade for Bolden, if they did they certainly didn't feel strongly enough about him to make an offer competitive with Baltimore's.

I am indeed a draftnik, but at present there are no "Welkers" or "Mosses" affordably priced. Which is why I look to use the draft for improving the competition and depth at WR.

If you look objectively at BB's draft record for Wide Receiver:
Tate -- incomplete.
Edelman -- good first year, incomplete.
Slater -- Special Teams primary (listed for full disclosure purposes).
Jackson -- Bust.
Sam -- Bust
Johnson -- Overpriced Special Teamer (not a "bust," but a disappointment for his draft position).
Branch -- Success.
Givens -- Success.

The three underachievers are the studs with size and special athletic gifts, two of whom were taken higher in the second round. The one "Day One" success (back in the day anyways) was Branch taken at the end of the second round - an undersized, overachiever. The two "Day Two" successes (Givens, Edelman), are players other teams overlooked because they didn't fit a "profile." Slater doesn't really belong in this list, but as long as he's listed as a WR I at least need to account for him.

Score card: 2 busts, 2 clear successes, 1 underachiever, 1 initial success, and Tate. Even if the rookie doesn't produce much his first year, he's still more likely to develop "if" BB stays away from the profile studs and goes for the kids who break the mold.

Round Two targets: Gilyard, Damian Williams (Some may argue to take Gilyard later, they are wrong, the kid's special.) TE Dennis Pitta would also help the receiver situation too (his change of direction numbers for a player his size are Welkerish, not to mention his hands).
Round Four targets: Roberts, Jeremy Williams, White, Andre Brown.
Round Five/Six/Seven: Easley, Reed, Wolfe, Scott Long
UDFA: Mariani, Moturi, Bryan Anderson, Tim Brown, Brewer, Gunnell, Horne

 

[mgteich]

So we have a

a star Moss
an incomplete Edelman
a maybe Tate
a injured star Welker

And your solution for the 2010 team is to bring in two rookies, who you acknowledge are a 50-50 shot to produce, and perhaps not even in their rookie years?
=====================

You say that no affordable UFA's are available to help this team in 2010? Really? Would Josh Reed hurt or help this team?

And why we limited to UFA's? Both Moss and Welker were acquired through trade? Do you really know that Belichick cannot meet the 2010 need (and even the need beyond) by trade? How could you possibly know that?

And yes, you scoff at signing TO. Perhaps it is style rather than performance that is critical to you. Do you really believe that a one year contract with the TO would hurt, rather than help this team? Consider paying $4M for TO, with the understanding that he is Welker insurance, expected to prodcue while Welker is gone.

Let's see. Are we better off with TO or Stanback as the sixth receiver on the 2010 squad?
================

I wonder what Brady and Moss would think about acquiring Josh Reed or TO? I'm sure they would rather have more reps from Stanback and Aiken or depend on a rookie for 2010 production to replace Welker's production. NOT!

Spoken like a true curmudgeon Ken, where are all these great UFA options? Put simply NE liked the UFA market so well they signed street free agent David Patten. Terrell Owens? Shirley [sic], you can't be serious! The goal is to make the team more cohesive, not more dysfunctional. Reed? He visited, perhaps he'll eventually sign, but for now he's a problem for later.

We have varying stories on whether NE even made an effort to trade for Bolden, if they did they certainly didn't feel strongly enough about him to make an offer competitive with Baltimore's.

I am indeed a draftnik, but at present there are no "Welkers" or "Mosses" affordably priced. Which is why I look to use the draft for improving the competition and depth at WR.

If you look objectively at BB's draft record for Wide Receiver:
Tate -- incomplete.
Edelman -- good first year, incomplete.
Slater -- Special Teams primary (listed for full disclosure purposes).
Jackson -- Bust.
Sam -- Bust
Johnson -- Overpriced Special Teamer (not a "bust," but a disappointment for his draft position).
Branch -- Success.
Givens -- Success.

The three underachievers are the studs with size and special athletic gifts, two of whom were taken higher in the second round. The one "Day One" success (back in the day anyways) was Branch taken at the end of the second round - an undersized, overachiever. The two "Day Two" successes (Givens, Edelman), are players other teams overlooked because they didn't fit a "profile." Slater doesn't really belong in this list, but as long as he's listed as a WR I at least need to account for him.

Score card: 2 busts, 2 clear successes, 1 underachiever, 1 initial success, and Tate. Even if the rookie doesn't produce much his first year, he's still more likely to develop "if" BB stays away from the profile studs and goes for the kids who break the mold.

Round Two targets: Gilyard, Damian Williams (Some may argue to take Gilyard later, they are wrong, the kid's special.) TE Dennis Pitta would also help the receiver situation too (his change of direction numbers for a player his size are Welkerish, not to mention his hands).
Round Four targets: Roberts, Jeremy Williams, White, Andre Brown.
Round Five/Six/Seven: Easley, Reed, Wolfe, Scott Long
UDFA: Mariani, Moturi, Bryan Anderson, Tim Brown, Brewer, Gunnell, Horne

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Per Reiss:

Understanding the present market conditions and why he feels patience is important in building the team. Kraft pointed out that because this is a year without a salary cap, teams can carry players on their roster that they don’t intend to keep when the season begins (Adalius Thomas, perhaps?). He then cited the example of when the Patriots acquired nose tackle Ted Washington in a trade in 2003, and how it happened in training camp. With those two factors in mind, Kraft said that he expects more opportunities in the coming weeks and months to continue improving the team, specifically at receiver. He said the start of training camp and right before the season starts figure to be times where there is meaningful player movement. He also mentioned 2009 third-round draft choice Brandon Tate as a player who could surprise.

Coupled with Krafts additional comments about the importance being placed on chemistry and character this offseason, I would be surprised if they are even remotely contemplating adding any WR's with a history of problematic conduct, and I could see one WR being brought back at the start of camp because he knows the system and his only problem was the business of football...whether he gets cut in Seattle or they have to trade something conditional down the road for him.

But I do agree with Box that it is imperative for long term success that they get back on the horse and start developing another home grown core of WR's. In 2002 they drafted their #1 and #2 WR's in the 2nd and 7th rounds. Branch as I recall was labled a stretch in the second. Edleman proves despite some recent reaches elite for talent that wasn't, they can still locate the highly coachable, intuitive, driven prospect when they focus on that, and ideally those guys are found in the later rounds. There are some intriguing effort and character guys like White and Roberts and Easley and even Shipley who should be available in the 4th or 5th rounds who could potentially contribute this season and help build a solid foundation for the forseeable future.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

So we have a

a star Moss
an incomplete Edelman
a maybe Tate
a injured star Welker

And your solution for the 2010 team is to bring in two rookies, who you acknowledge are a 50-50 shot to produce, and perhaps not even in their rookie years?
=====================

You say that no affordable UFA's are available to help this team in 2010? Really? Would Josh Reed hurt or help this team?

And why we limited to UFA's? Both Moss and Welker were acquired through trade? Do you really know that Belichick cannot meet the 2010 need (and even the need beyond) by trade? How could you possibly know that?

And yes, you scoff at signing TO. Perhaps it is style rather than performance that is critical to you. Do you really believe that a one year contract with the TO would hurt, rather than help this team? Consider paying $4M for TO, with the understanding that he is Welker insurance, expected to prodcue while Welker is gone.

Let's see. Are we better off with TO or Stanback as the sixth receiver on the 2010 squad?
================

I wonder what Brady and Moss would think about acquiring Josh Reed or TO? I'm sure they would rather have more reps from Stanback and Aiken or depend on a rookie for 2010 production to replace Welker's production. NOT!

Yes, I scoff at Terrell Owens, three NFL clubs have dumped his dumb backside because he's more trouble than he's worth - and you want him? To answer your question, NE is clearly better off with Stanback as a 6th WR, it's not even close.

As for Josh Reed, he's out there, pull him out of your hat Bullwinkle and we'll see what he brings to the team; until then he's checked in, checked out, and no other team has signed him - he's either pricing himself out of the market or there's something else cooking, so I'm not counting on him though I'd have been happy to give him a chance.

Now if you're done kvetching about my preference for rookies in this team building process, perhaps you can offer some realistic alternatives in terms of trades, RFAs, or UFAs, because I'm not seeing anything I'd care to see the team shell out for...unless you'd like a reprise of last year's trade and cut debacle?

 

[JMarr]

Yes, I scoff at Terrell Owens, three NFL clubs have dumped his dumb backside because he's more trouble than he's worth - and you want him? To answer your question, NE is clearly better off with Stanback as a 6th WR, it's not even close.

Last time I checked, Stanback was 4th on the depth chart. That is a guy who's going to see significant reps. Unless you know something about Stanbeck the rest of us don't, he very well could be cut after training camp IMO.

Now if you're done kvetching about my preference for rookies in this team building process, perhaps you can offer some realistic alternatives in terms of trades, RFAs, or UFAs, because I'm not seeing anything I'd care to see the team shell out for...unless you'd like a reprise of last year's trade and cut debacle?

Last year was an anomaly: BB wanted to go back to 2007 by getting a burner in Galloway, signing Lewis and drafting Tate. You have to think he's thinking differently now and looking at the types of players he was successfull with in the past--smart, possession type guys who won't take a year to pick up the offense. The latter part rules out most rookies.

As I learned, spending too much time in the Draft Forum does a number on your objectivity. I would love it if we could draft a WR or two who have what it takes to contribute this year. Maybe BB already knows of some.

I agree with you about TO (and probably Marshall) but I'll be shocked if there's not a trade or (non Practice Squad type) FA acquistion by early training camp and I'll eat crow all over the place if that happens.

 

[captain stone]

Current Roster

Randy Moss: I really think Moss is getting a bum rap to the point he being underrated. 1200+yds and 13 TDs is a fine season, especially when you figure he had a sub par Brady this year. Another thing we seem to take for granted is Moss' durability. For three years now, he has answered the bell for just about every game he's been asked to play. And while the nitpickers can point out individual plays where he appears to be taking off, he has also shown that he is willing to play through injuries like his bad back and dislocated shoulder. Toughness isn't a word that is associated with Moss very much, but for his years here, Moss has been a very tough WR.

Bottom line here is that, even in the advanced stages of his career, Moss is not just a true #1 WR, who more than 25 teams would love to have lining up for them, he is someone we can count on. So we go that going for us right off the bat.

Be that as it may, Moss needs to forget about going deep as often as he did in 2007, when he set a phoney-baloney TD-catching record. This OL cannot protect an even-less-mobile Brady long enough for those patterns to develop. As long as the Ratio understands that his role going forward is as a red zone target & chain-mover, then he can help us in his final year as a Patriot.

Wes Welker: Now unfortunately, Wes is someone we cannot count on. I think that if he plays anytime before the 8th game of the season, it will be a bonus. I think we should expect to see a somewhat diminished Wes Welker when he DOES return. I'm thinking of a solid possession guy a la Troy Brown at the latter stages of his career. Less YAC than what you'd expect in his prime, but he will run great routes and catch everything thrown to him. In other words we should get back the guy that most of us expected when we signed him (because anyone who told you they expected him to catch 300+ balls in 3 years is lying his ass off

Bottom Line - This will be a net loss to the WR corp no matter how you couch it. Loss of playing time, loss of physical ability, and a loss of depth.

Agreed. If we can get WW back by Thanksgiving, never mind Halloween, then I'll be happy. And Bill better not rush him the way he rushed David Thomas in 2007.

Julian Edelman - I was looking at his numbers the other day and given the fact he had a broken arm for most of the season, played behind the guy who LED the league in receptions, and, oh yeah, never played the position before at ANY level; frankly he had a spectacular year. There were only 2 other Rookies in the AFC who caught more passes. If you reflect on it for a second, its remarkable. He did what Joey Galloway and several other gifted WRs couldn't, and mastered a VERY complex passing offense.

While most just think about him as a Welker clone, he is bigger, stronger (6' 195), with more straight line speed than Welker. Most importantly, EVERY time he had a chance at extended playing time, he produced. Although he lacks Welker's spectacular burst, he isn't a slouch at quickness as his 3 cone times indicated. AND with expanded opportunities, he will be even better this year. I think he will be vastly underrated going into this season.....He won't be when it over.

Agreed.

Brandon Tate: He's the sleeper. First round talent, available to us because we was hurt in his senior year, he has the talent to be OUR Percy Harvin, a big play making WR/returner. But after almost 2 years of very limited play due to injury, he isn't someone we can count on. But he is someone we can hope for. Kind of like an extra draft pick of a high potential guy.

Tate was a bad pick: damaged goods, plus he failed the combine pee-pee test for the Holy Ganja. And now he's twice-baked damaged goods. Was he also rushed into action too quickly? Until further notice, Tate doesn't exist to me except as another example of Bill's bad drafting.

Sam Aiken - Sam did a credible job last year filling in, but the fact is that he ISN'T a guy you want out there as the #2 for a full season of a championship team. He's a great special teamer, who is an injury replacement. In other words a good guy to have as one of your receiver corps, just not a guy you want to count on for a lot of production.

Sam I Am (Not) is a #6 on a real contender - at best.

David Patten: Sorry but I can't see this being anything more than a nice camp story, a la Patrick Pass. I will truly be worried about this WR corp, if David Patten is still part of the team at the end of camp.

Agreed. Why didn't Bill sign him last year, when at least Patten was a year younger?

BTW- what ever happened to that kid we all loved in camp from Nebraska. Is he still on the 80 man roster?

Nunn was signed to Tampa's 53 during the season.

POSSIBLE ADDITIONS (Draft)

I'm actually going to let the Draft gurus fill in the blanks for who is on the radar. I think that it is the current wisdom that one of those first 4 picks will be used on a WR. However it will be interesting to see how it pans out. If we DON'T pick a WR with one of those early picks, then it COULD tell us that BB is happy with Tate and Edelman's development this off season, doesn't want to add another WR from the top of the draft. It also could mean that they have a FA WR targeted, if not signed by the draft. How the draft runs will tell us a lot about how BB feels about all the players discussed above.

One of those first 4 picks MUST be spent on a WR to replace Moss by 2011.

POSSIBLE ADDITIONS (FA)

I think any talk about any of the RFA WRs is pretty much wild speculation. BB's history should prove that he is loathe to spend a first round pick on a WR. The fact is that more quality WRs can be gotten in the middle to low rounds, and UDFA. There are simply more WR type athletes out there than QB, DL, or those with the ability to rush the passer. Every year has at LEAST a half dozen College WRs with first round grades. You can't say that for those other positions. So forget about Marshall or Austin. When it come to FA WRs, the 3 most likely candidates are as follows

Josh Reed - I liked him coming out of LSU, and I think he has underachieved in Buffalo. Part of that CAN be attributed to their QB situation, and offensive coaching. I think he'd be a good fit here either as the slot or flanker. A solid, if unspectacular addition

Kevin Curtis - A true flanker who at his best can offer some size and speed opposite Moss. The question is, that after 2 injury riddled seasons, is he at his best? But if the Pats signed him, it would solve an immediate hole.

Terrell Owens - Yes I said it, TO. TO the nut. TO the crazy. TO the distraction.... BUT also TO the proven producer in a flanker/SE. He will go over the middle, he will give you YAC, he will block on runs, he will spread the field. In fact skill wise, he is a perfect fit for what we are missing for a one year period. The question is, could we support all the baggage that comes with him? I say we could, and it sure would make the next 9 months anything but DULL So I'm on record. Sign TO.....(one year only)

If there is another FA WR out that that someone thinks might be able to come in and make an impact let me know. I know Laverneous Coles is out there. I loved him when he was with the Jets. He always killed the Pats, but there is a question about his health now. Any others??????? This would be a good thread to advise.

I agree with your choices for UFA WRs, incl. TO as a one-year stopgap. He is a pain in the ass, but he is tough and can still run. He might be a better all-around WR than Moss right now. My question is: Can he learn & execute the playbook? And I still think that Bill should've signed Dante Stallworth & Matt Jones when they were avail.

OK, it wasn't very brief, but when have I ever been.

As of today, we are not fine at all at WR. We need to be at least 2 players better: a high-end rookie, and a quality vet...and a late-round/UDFA to develop would be nice, too.

BTW, Mrs. Stone my poker-playing wife says that the odds of flopping a flush when holding suited connectors are about 125-1, if that helps.

 

[Triumph]

Re: idle thoughts- looking at the WR position.

Garcon was not a rookie last year. And just because "other teams are doing it" doesn't mean anything, necessarily. You don't know if those teams dumbed down their routes so those players could produce.

Who cares if a team taylors its offense around its new players? Charlie Weis had Brady going out for passes.

Branch and Edelman produced year 1.

An influx of youth is needed in the WR corps.

 

[HarkDawg]

I miss NUNN

 

[mgteich]

A) We need wide receivers.
B) We traded for Lewis, and Edelman ended up beating him out for a roster spot. I guess this was a trade and cut debacle in hindsight. Or, it may be that we brought in two players to compete for the #4 receiver position, and one of them did pretty well. We signed an aging veteran who didn't work out (some do and some don't). The reality is that we tried and failed to fill the hole with free agents, trades, late round draft choices and even an injured draft choice who was hoped to contribute mightely after being on the PUP list.
C) We didn't meet the wide receiver need last year. And why is the answer to ignore trades and free agency? We already have signed our over the hill veteran. I will be shocked if we don't sign or trade for a midlevel veteran. We will see who is right before Training Camp, or even before the draft.

You ask who I would trade for. I don't guess with regard to who is really available for a reasonable price. I leave that to the personnel folks. RFA's are in general a waste of time. but I have problem with the team taking a couple shot.

I'd be fine with Belichick signing almost any UFA for camp competition. The only risk is the bonus money. I would be fine if Stanback stepped up a beat out Patten and another free agent. Counting on him as part of our 2010 wide receiver production is another thing entriely.

D) We already are developing Edelman and Tate. Apparently the answer is to add Stanback and another kid or two, and have Moss the kiddies as Brady's targets.

Yes, I scoff at Terrell Owens, three NFL clubs have dumped his dumb backside because he's more trouble than he's worth - and you want him? To answer your question, NE is clearly better off with Stanback as a 6th WR, it's not even close.

As for Josh Reed, he's out there, pull him out of your hat Bullwinkle and we'll see what he brings to the team; until then he's checked in, checked out, and no other team has signed him - he's either pricing himself out of the market or there's something else cooking, so I'm not counting on him though I'd have been happy to give him a chance.

Now if you're done kvetching about my preference for rookies in this team building process, perhaps you can offer some realistic alternatives in terms of trades, RFAs, or UFAs, because I'm not seeing anything I'd care to see the team shell out for...unless you'd like a reprise of last year's trade and cut debacle?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

A) We need wide receivers.
B) We traded for Lewis, and Edelman ended up beating him out for a roster spot. I guess this was a trade and cut debacle in hindsight. Or, it may be that we brought in two players to compete for the #4 receiver position, and one of them did pretty well. We signed an aging veteran who didn't work out (some do and some don't). The reality is that we tried and failed to fill the hole with free agents, trades, late round draft choices and even an injured draft choice who was hoped to contribute mightely after being on the PUP list.
C) We didn't meet the wide receiver need last year. And why is the answer to ignore trades and free agency? We already have signed our over the hill veteran. I will be shocked if we don't sign or trade for a midlevel veteran. We will see who is right before Training Camp, or even before the draft.

You ask who I would trade for. I don't guess with regard to who is really available for a reasonable price. I leave that to the personnel folks. RFA's are in general a waste of time. but I have problem with the team taking a couple shot.

I'd be fine with Belichick signing almost any UFA for camp competition. The only risk is the bonus money. I would be fine if Stanback stepped up a beat out Patten and another free agent. Counting on him as part of our 2010 wide receiver production is another thing entriely.

D) We already are developing Edelman and Tate. Apparently the answer is to add Stanback and another kid or two, and have Moss the kiddies as Brady's targets.

Reading comprehension is fundamental.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

We need to draft a WR with 1 of our top 4 picks. If we can bring in Josh Reed
that would be a decent upgrade for our #3 reciever. They did'nt even use him last year, and BB raved about him before a Bills game. As far as TO. I think he could be a huge distraction considering his obsessive competition he has with the other 81 (Moss). He was on good behavoir last year because he was the man on a team he knew was going nowhere. He needed to shut up or end his career. On this team he'd be counting how many balls go to moss and himself. Recipe for disaster. So hows that Riddler