Drafting college OGs?

[patchick]

Can anybody remember the last time the Pats successfully drafted a guard who actually played guard in college?

 

[WhiZa]

Rich Ohrnberger. What do I win?

 

[patchick]

Rich Ohrnberger. What do I win?

Sorry, maybe I should have bolded "successfully."

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The only drafted interior OL who has worked out to date (Belichick era) is Koppen, however the jury is still out on Orhnberger and Bussey.

 

[patchick]

The only drafted interior OL who has worked out to date (Belichick era) is Koppen, however the jury is still out on Orhnberger and Bussey.

That's my count, too. 1 college center, 1 college LT, 1 college wrestler. Even successful backups like Hochstein weren't Pats draft picks.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

That's my count, too. 1 college center, 1 college LT, 1 college wrestler. Even successful backups like Hochstein weren't Pats draft picks.

That seems to be the MO, recycle other team's castoff OL into NE reserve interior OL. Last year was quite a departure, but I think Scar's decision to get shorter/lower in the leverage battle inside was driving those draft decisions.

 

[patchick]

That seems to be the MO, recycle other team's castoff OL into NE reserve interior OL. Last year was quite a departure, but I think Scar's decision to get shorter/lower in the leverage battle inside was driving those draft decisions.

Ohrnberger struck me as the huge departure. (Bussey at least was a college OT.) All of their best success has been with agile, athletic OLs -- at one point I recall that almost every OL on the roster had at least a 29" vertical, even "castoffs" like LeVoir! Experiments with other styles, like O'Callaghan, have been pretty disappointing.

 

[sg14]

Or going by our present G's, they want an athletic type, and would think a college tackle would fit that style better.

Is Bussey short?
I don't know what to think of O'burger, I hope he works out but he does look small / short.

Edit; Looks like I was typing at my glacial speed at the same time as PC. Great minds think alike.

That seems to be the MO, recycle other team's castoff OL into NE reserve interior OL. Last year was quite a departure, but I think Scar's decision to get shorter/lower in the leverage battle inside was driving those draft decisions.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Ohrnberger struck me as the huge departure. (Bussey at least was a college OT.) All of their best success has been with agile, athletic OLs -- at one point I recall that almost every OL on the roster had at least a 29" vertical, even "castoffs" like LeVoir! Experiments with other styles, like O'Callaghan, have been pretty disappointing.

O'Callaghan was a departure, but an otherwise highly ranked OT who dropped to the 4th round due to injury. Britt and O'Callaghan were the first effort to find 'long' OTs, LeVoir and then Vollmer were where Scar took it next. I can't call O'C a disappointment, he was an odd pick whom I'd have thought was a better choice for Dallas or Philadelphia or Pittsburgh with their beefy lines, but before he got his bell rung again he played okay while Kaczur was on PUP. I'm not sure if Scar had any input into his drafting, but the one OT Scar did scout was pretty good last season.

 

[WhiZa]

I looked it up and I found that Ron Wooten was drafted in 1981 and started at G for the Patriots for 6 years. I hope that helps

 

[mgteich]

The record is no better at RT.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Or going by our present G's, they want an athletic type, and would think a college tackle would fit that style better.

Is Bussey short?
I don't know what to think of O'burger, I hope he works out but he does look small / short.

Edit; Looks like I was typing at my glacial speed at the same time as PC. Great minds think alike.

NE's starting OL: Light (6'4 3/4"), Mankins (6'4 1/8"), Koppen (6'3 1/2"), Neal (6'4"), Kaczur 6'4 1/2." Neal's is the only height not taken from Combine reporting, but he measure's up to the others when they are standing together.

Orhnberger is 6'2 1/4."
Bussey is 6'3 1/4."

It's not just Orhnberger and Bussey getting shorter:
Wendell (6'2 1/8")
Yates (6'2")
Connolly (6'3 1/2")

The trend appears to be OT 6'7"+ and OC/OG under 6'4."

patchick - I just noticed how all the NE OL fit together - short shuttle. Kaczur is the stiffest at 4.76 (save for O'C at 4.83 & Ashworth at 4.87), but the rest, including Hochstein and Britt, all run the short shuttle between 4.45-4.6. Bussey, Orhnberger, and Yates have no data, but I'll bet they're the same.

 

[captain stone]

Can anybody remember the last time the Pats successfully drafted a guard who actually played guard in college?

John Hannah?

 

[mgteich]

If we define "successfully" as playing for the patriots for four or more years, we had Heath Irwin in 1996, but he was hardly a success.

So, that bring us back to 1981 and Ron Wooten. I am not 100% sure that they all played guard in college.

We also had:

Bob Cryder 1978
John Hannah 1973
Justin Canale 1965
Len St Jean 1964
===============================

HOWEVER, I would point out that it is not at all unusual to secure a LG from the college LT ranks. Of course, as you point out, we secure almost all our guards from free agency. As I indicated, we don't do much better at successfully drafting RT's.

Sorry, maybe I should have bolded "successfully."

 

[patchick]

The record is no better at RT.

Absolutely. If a kid is agile enough for the Pats' line, he was an LT in college; if he's smart enough, he was a center. And as Box noted, center (and to some extend guard) candidates tend to be short these days, while the top centers in this year's draft are very tall.

 

[Underdog]

Sorry, maybe I should have bolded "successfully."

Well they got the card with his name on it to the podium before the timer expired. Sounds like they successfully drafted him to me.

 

[cstjohn17]

Can anybody remember the last time the Pats successfully drafted a guard who actually played guard in college?

I don't think this is just a Patriot thing, the whole NFL tends to work this way. The better athletes play OT in college and the better athletes go to to the NFL.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

The trend appears to be OT 6'7"+ and OC/OG under 6'4."

This is a proliferation of the arms race. The Defense has quick fast guys off the edge, so the O line counters with tall guys with long arms to make the fast guys go a longer distance.

I think Ulatoski (6'8") of Texas could eventually work his way into being a starter for us due to his height and experience in big games and the zone blocking scheme. He needs a lot of work drive blocking, but that is what Dante is for.

 

[mgteich]

If 6'3 or 6'4 is optimum for a drive-blocking RG, how exactly is Dante going to perform the miracle of making a 6'8 player into a top RG? And why would the patriots want him to do that? Isn't it much more straightforward simply to draft a player within a reasonable amount of inches and pounds from the optimum size for the type of guard that he wants to use?

This is a proliferation of the arms race. The Defense has quick fast guys off the edge, so the O line counters with tall guys with long arms to make the fast guys go a longer distance.

I think Ulatoski (6'8") of Texas could eventually work his way into being a starter for us due to his height and experience in big games and the zone blocking scheme. He needs a lot of work drive blocking, but that is what Dante is for.

 

[dryheat44]

This is a proliferation of the arms race. The Defense has quick fast guys off the edge, so the O line counters with tall guys with long arms to make the fast guys go a longer distance.

I think Ulatoski (6'8") of Texas could eventually work his way into being a starter for us due to his height and experience in big games and the zone blocking scheme. He needs a lot of work drive blocking, but that is what Dante is for.

I just can't see Ulatoski in our offense...he seems to have sufficient straight-ahead power, but he seems awfully stiff and mechanical moving laterally. Maybe a UDFA.