Everyone in the AFC East except for one team has appeared to upgrade

[LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks]

I don't see how the Jets have improved. How is LT+Cromartie+Poole an upgrade over Jones+Sheppard+Rhodes? Cromartie and Rhodes are basically a wash as talented but overrated "name players" whose hype hasn't been warranted based on their play on the field recently. LT is washed up and a downgrade from Jones. I doubt anyone is real excited over Brodney Poole or cares about losing Sheppard. Another wash there.

Seems like a very lateral off-season to me.

 

[ALP]

Let me rephrase my statement as it seems more harsh than it really is. What I meant by "trouble" is that they won't be a championship quality team. I expect them to win the division but get bounced out of the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs if they continue to have drafts like they've had. Expect seasons like '02, '05 and '09.

The only difference between other teams having the same "Ifs" as the Pats is that they don't have Tom Brady, Peyton Manning or Drew Brees. Specifically, Brady and Manning are expected by their fans and the media to compete for a super bowl victory every season. The same cannot be said for most teams in the NFL.

Don't get me wrong, I like the current approach of the Pats which is not spending big in free agency but building through the draft. The only problem is, their recent drafts have been pretty bad (specifically '06 and '08). Also, I said last year's draft was the most critical in the BB's era and out of 10 picks, none made an impact. That's pretty pathetic when a team is going through as much turnover as the Pats. This draft will be interesting as it's being hyped up as one of the best classes in years. It's not asking much for the Pats to acquire one player in this year's draft to make an impact. Despite what most fans say on this board, plenty of positions are up for grabs.

although most of what u said has merit, i must disagree w/ the bolded statements...

yes we held on to 10 picks from last draft, and yes most of them not only have not really contributed, but have not shows anything (aside of edelmen arguably), but honestly, did u really expect an impact in the first year? i can only recall one rookie having an impact in all of BB's drafts here, not including DL and OL, which a rookie shouldnt have a hard time picking up b/c its simplified

any other position i would expect impact 2nd year at the earliest, and at this stage, this year, is when well be able to judge this past draft class

 

[Patjew]

Let me rephrase my statement as it seems more harsh than it really is. What I meant by "trouble" is that they won't be a championship quality team. I expect them to win the division but get bounced out of the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs if they continue to have drafts like they've had. Expect seasons like '02, '05 and '09.

The only difference between other teams having the same "Ifs" as the Pats is that they don't have Tom Brady, Peyton Manning or Drew Brees. Specifically, Brady and Manning are expected by their fans and the media to compete for a super bowl victory every season. The same cannot be said for most teams in the NFL.

Don't get me wrong, I like the current approach of the Pats which is not spending big in free agency but building through the draft. The only problem is, their recent drafts have been pretty bad (specifically '06 and '08). Also, I said last year's draft was the most critical in the BB's era and out of 10 picks, none made an impact. That's pretty pathetic when a team is going through as much turnover as the Pats. This draft will be interesting as it's being hyped up as one of the best classes in years. It's not asking much for the Pats to acquire one player in this year's draft to make an impact. Despite what most fans say on this board, plenty of positions are up for grabs.

I hear what you're saying, but at the same time I wouldn't say that none of last year's draftees made an impact. Most of them got decent playing time, some looked great in spots (Vollmer and Edleman), and many made key plays here and there (Butler, Chung, Pryor). We'll see what Tate and McKenzie can do this year. The only one I was really disappointed in is Brace, but then again Wilfork didn't play much as a rookie either. It's not easy to come into a complex system like the Pats' have, and I think overall the 2009 rookie class did have a meaningful, though not sensational, impact.

 

[Marqui]

the phins lost two OLB edge rushers in joey and taylor, and their starting safety, and added the best ILB in football, making it even

When did they acquire Patrick Willis? :singing:

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

but honestly, did u really expect an impact in the first year?

If they wanted to compete for a super bowl in '09? Yes. If they want to win with Brady now, they don't have time to be waiting around for draft picks to have spot duty here and there.

but at the same time I wouldn't say that none of last year's draftees made an impact

This is where we disagree. I define "impact" as a player that steps in right away and earns a starting job. I'm not asking for a pro bowl player, but for a player that can show some consistency by staying in the starting lineup. I didn't like the musical chairs that they played at CB this season with Butler and Wilhite. In addition, I didn't like them playing musical chairs at OT with Vollmer, Kaczur and Light.

 

[Patjew]

If they wanted to compete for a super bowl in '09? Yes. If they want to win with Brady now, they don't have time to be waiting around for draft picks to have spot duty here and there.

This is where we disagree. I define "impact" as a player that steps in right away and earns a starting job. I'm not asking for a pro bowl player, but for a player that can show some consistency by staying in the starting lineup. I didn't like the musical chairs that they played at CB this season with Butler and Wilhite. In addition, I didn't like them playing musical chairs at OT with Vollmer, Kaczur and Light.

Fair enough, we'll respectfully disagree.

 

[Deus Irae]

If they wanted to compete for a super bowl in '09? Yes. If they want to win with Brady now, they don't have time to be waiting around for draft picks to have spot duty here and there.

Expecting rookies to be impact players is a fool's game. Even top picks often don't do that in year one.

This is where we disagree. I define "impact" as a player that steps in right away and earns a starting job. I'm not asking for a pro bowl player, but for a player that can show some consistency by staying in the starting lineup. I didn't like the musical chairs that they played at CB this season with Butler and Wilhite. In addition, I didn't like them playing musical chairs at OT with Vollmer, Kaczur and Light.

1.) See part "A"

2.) Ingram took the LS job from day 1.

3.) Edelman was in the WR mix from the second game, where he caught 8 passes in relief of Welker. It was his injuries that knocked him out of the lineup after that.

4.) While people spent the entire season overrating Vollmer, he was able to wrest the starting RT position from Kaczur by the end of the season. How much of that was Vollmer and how much was injury to Kaczur is something we'll never know. However, I think it's safe to assume that the RT job is Vollmer's to lose as we move forward into next season.

5.) Butler was up and down, but he showed a level of talent that gives confidence. He should be in a position to compete for that CB2 spot this year. Hell, with Springs being another year older (and possibly getting the boot), Butler should probably be considered the favorite to win the job.

6.) Chung looked about as I expected, since he came into the league not being able to cover.

7.) Brace was what you'd expect from a 4-3 DT converting to a two gapping 3-4 NT. By that, I mean that he was a fish out of water. He'll need to step it up this season if he wants to solidify his place on the team.

8.) I had no problem with the Tate selection. I expected him to be red-shirted. I wish he had been. Now we're left to hope that the second injury isn't one that seriously damages his career.

9.) I'm intrigued by the possibility of McKenzie being able to play on running downs. It would eliminate the need to bring in someone to replace Guyton, since Mr. Guyton could be the designated "passing down" LB, and the two of them could potentially make an acceptable tandem. That lost season of McKenzie's last year puts him behind the curve here, unfortunately.

10.) Ohrnberger and Bussey were MIA last season, as one would expect from later round o-linemen coming to the Patriots. I expect absolutely nothing out of either of them, as a result. If they can achieve backup status, that will be a plus.

11.) Pryor did a fade over the course of the season. I have no idea what to expect out of him. In the interest of what I consider smart planning, I therefore expect nothing out of him and hope for pleasant surprise.

So.... Vollmer, Ingram, Butler, Tate, McKenzie and Edelman should all be able to give some legitimate competition in training camp, and most, if not all, of them should be expected to get some real playing time during the season. That's a pretty solid hall for just one draft.

 

[Schmo]

Expecting rookies to be impact players is a fool's game. Even top picks often don't do that in year one.



1.) See part "A"

2.) Ingram took the LS job from day 1.

3.) Edelman was in the WR mix from the second game, where he caught 8 passes in relief of Welker. It was his injuries that knocked him out of the lineup after that.

4.) While people spent the entire season overrating Vollmer, he was able to wrest the starting RT position from Kaczur by the end of the season. How much of that was Vollmer and how much was injury to Kaczur is something we'll never know. However, I think it's safe to assume that the RT job is Vollmer's to lose as we move forward into next season.

5.) Butler was up and down, but he showed a level of talent that gives confidence. He should be in a position to compete for that CB2 spot this year. Hell, with Springs being another year older (and possibly getting the boot), Butler should probably be considered the favorite to win the job.

6.) Chung looked about as I expected, since he came into the league not being able to cover.

7.) Brace was what you'd expect from a 4-3 DT converting to a two gapping 3-4 NT. By that, I mean that he was a fish out of water. He'll need to step it up this season if he wants to solidify his place on the team.

8.) I had no problem with the Tate selection. I expected him to be red-shirted. I wish he had been. Now we're left to hope that the second injury isn't one that seriously damages his career.

9.) I'm intrigued by the possibility of McKenzie being able to play on running downs. It would eliminate the need to bring in someone to replace Guyton, since Mr. Guyton could be the designated "passing down" LB, and the two of them could potentially make an acceptable tandem. That lost season of McKenzie's last year puts him behind the curve here, unfortunately.

10.) Ohrnberger and Bussey were MIA last season, as one would expect from later round o-linemen coming to the Patriots. I expect absolutely nothing out of either of them, as a result. If they can achieve backup status, that will be a plus.

11.) Pryor did a fade over the course of the season. I have no idea what to expect out of him. In the interest of what I consider smart planning, I therefore expect nothing out of him and hope for pleasant surprise.

So.... Vollmer, Ingram, Butler, Tate, McKenzie and Edelman should all be able to give some legitimate competition in training camp, and most, if not all, of them should be expected to get some real playing time during the season. That's a pretty solid hall for just one draft.

I agree with pretty much all of this. I think Butler and Chung get a lot of s*** for not being pro-bowl players yet. The 2010 SB isn't going to be determined by the 2009 draft and next year's super bowl isn't going to be determined by this year's draft. I for one am VERY excited for Butler and Chung. Butler has already shown he can play better than Wilhite and Wheatley, and Chung (coming into the pros with the reputation as a hard hitter) has become a great special team player and has started to become a presence on D. Vollmer has obviously shown his worth, and much more so with Edelman. Tate is what we drafted - high risk, high reward... either way we shouldn't be suprised. McKenzie is the interesting one - either his injury is a fluke and he shows up to make a difference, or he will spend another year on the Crable'd List errrrr.... disable'd list.

 

[Patjew]

I think Pryor deserves a little love for getting some PT as a 6th rounder, especially ahead of Brace. He did seem to hit the wall during the year, but I'm optimistic that he can be a solid backup.

 

[DarrylS]

Heard Peter King the other day speaking about how the really good teams seldom make a splash at the onset of Free Agency.. last year Indy and NOLA did not sign anyone initially.. there was more to it, but got distracted.. the top 4 teams according to Las Vegas Odds.. San Diego, Indy, NOLA and the Pats have been relatively quiet..

Without regard, last year we had something like 15 rookies on our team.. some of which fared extremely well, and some were red shirted.. 4 were on IR Tate, McKenzie, Bussey and Lockett.. maybe two will have an impact.

I suspect that this team will fill some holes, but in reality will focus on building through the draft....

Shiny beads are not always better..

 

[Fencer]

Cousins,
Maybe they were not all great selections but the other AFC East Teams not named the Patriots have appeared to better themselves.

The Jets have added LT, Antonio Cromartie, DT Rod Wright and S Brodney Poole. Like these players or not, it has made them at least somewhat better.

The Fins have signed LB Dansby, Perhaps the best single AFC East signing so far.

The Bills have signed DT Dwan Edwards, ILB Andra Davis (both still young and decent). OT Cornell Greene, DT Marlon Favorite.

The Pats signed their own!! (oh yeah, they could have done this months ago) and some special teams LB called Murrell or Morall or something.

Am I wrong or does their seem to be an issue here? Or do we go back to the old standard "The Draft is going to save us all!" routine.
DW Toys

Other than Dansby, which of those players would have been a significant upgrade if signed by the Pats?

Other than Peppers, Dansby, Boldin, and perhaps another WR or two, which of the vets any teams have added so far this offseason would have been a significant upgrade for the Pats? I'd argue it's so few that if the Pats didn't bid up to get them, I'm not squawking.

The Pats are in shambles at:

Pass rusher
Receiver other than slot

by which I mean they have one proven non-JAG at each, when what you want in each case is a bunch.

RDE is a worry as well, but perhaps can be handled by committee (would anybody worry much about that position if we had three Mike Wrights splitting reps instead of one being supposed to hold up to the pounding there?).

ILB is pretty thin, as there's no basis to expect contributions from Thomas (likely gone), Seau (finally toast), or Alexander (been there, tried that).

Outside of that, personnel needs are more in the realm of tweaking or building for the future.

Other than WR, Peppers, and Dansby, I don't see where there were major opportunities to upgrade even in theory, let alone in practice.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I took a 2 week breather myself. Now i come back to find out 3 afc east teams bettered themselves, and mine wasnt on the list.....:bricks:

On a serious note, Im surprised there isnt more threads like this one on pg 1. I thought for sure i'd come back to threads about BB not signing every FA known to mankind, and how he's ruining the team

you shoulda been here last week.

To recap: we have the worst management in football, belichick has lost his mojo and we're looking at 8--8 if we get a few lucky breaks.

 

[Russyracuse]

Cousins,
Maybe they were not all great selections but the other AFC East Teams not named the Patriots have appeared to better themselves.

The Jets have added LT, Antonio Cromartie, DT Rod Wright and S Brodney Poole. Like these players or not, it has made them at least somewhat better.

The Fins have signed LB Dansby, Perhaps the best single AFC East signing so far.

The Bills have signed DT Dwan Edwards, ILB Andra Davis (both still young and decent). OT Cornell Greene, DT Marlon Favorite.

The Pats signed their own!! (oh yeah, they could have done this months ago) and some special teams LB called Murrell or Morall or something.

Am I wrong or does their seem to be an issue here? Or do we go back to the old standard "The Draft is going to save us all!" routine.
DW Toys

You know I read this and I can't believe what I am reading. The Pats have done exactly what they had to do. They needed to sign there own guys first.
I will respectfully disagree that they haven't gotten better.

They have re-signed important guys to this team. The locker room morale needed to change. By signing your own players the organization indicates there commitment to the players. They are better now because I think the morale will change in that locker room. Do they need more pieces to the puzzle? They absolutely do and it is only March. They are note done upgrading this team.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Cousins,
Maybe they were not all great selections but the other AFC East Teams not named the Patriots have appeared to better themselves.

The Jets have added LT, Antonio Cromartie, DT Rod Wright and S Brodney Poole. Like these players or not, it has made them at least somewhat better.

The Fins have signed LB Dansby, Perhaps the best single AFC East signing so far.

The Bills have signed DT Dwan Edwards, ILB Andra Davis (both still young and decent). OT Cornell Greene, DT Marlon Favorite.

The Pats signed their own!! (oh yeah, they could have done this months ago) and some special teams LB called Murrell or Morall or something.

Am I wrong or does their seem to be an issue here? Or do we go back to the old standard "The Draft is going to save us all!" routine.
DW Toys

Wow... of all the players mentioned in this post I don't think any of them are close to Wilfork. Ooooohhh, Cromartie and LT. You call that an offseason victory?

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Talk to me after the draft, not 2 weeks into one of the worst and weakeast FA peiords in recent memory... My prediciton


We will sign Josh Reed at WR at some point

Trade for Greg Olson at TE

sign a RFA closer to the draft to bolster pass rush...

Then focus on drafting a pass rusher and few WR...

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Andra Davis is young?

too young for the pats, anyway

 

[tanked_as_usual]

ron brace has a year under his belt (along with a whole lot of blubber)

in 2009, the pats increased the number of rookies on IR from 1 to 2

in fact, things appear so set, that the pats eliminated another coordinator

 

[patsfan-1982]

why is the world ending cause the bills of all teams signed 32 year old Andra Davis. who would not beat out guyton, as the starter he would have been this years seau, 5 snaps a game. at ILB. and how much better are the bills when they are now runing a 3-4 and only have 2 players on the roster that fit a 3-4 system Andra Davis, and Dwan Edwards, not a amazing talent.


and if the jets are a better team this year it will not all be do to signing LT and Cromartie, it willo be because there rookie QB and rookie RB become stars in year 2.


the fish signed Dansby, a ILB that get's a 100 tackels a year and 0 sacks and 0 INT's we all redy have a guy like that and he is 5 years younger in mayo,



other then signing any one of the WR's on the market i don't see any one that realy would have made the pats a 14 win team.


yes the fish and the jets got better and maybe the bills but not by much. the pats are a pass rusher and a WR away from staying #1 in the AFC east.

 

[Rob0729]

People only want to focus on the additions. The Jets lost a RB who ran for 1,402 yards and 14 TDs. The Dolphins let go of one starting OLB that gave them 9 sacks last year and might not resign the other one that gave them 7 sacks. Their starting NT is suspended for the first 8 games. They let go of one of their starting safeties.

People on this board have trashed the Pats for not resigning Ben Watson who was not much of a factor for this team, but ignore the fact that the Jets lost Thomas Jones and the Dolphins lost Joey Porter and probably Jason Taylor (their #1 and #2 sack leaders last year and 36.4% of all their sacks for the year). Yes, the those teams have added players, but it is yet to be seen if the additions outweigh the subtractions.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

People only want to focus on the additions. The Jets lost a RB who ran for 1,402 yards and 14 TDs. The Dolphins let go of one starting OLB that gave them 9 sacks last year and might not resign the other one that gave them 7 sacks. Their starting NT is suspended for the first 8 games. They let go of one of their starting safeties.

People on this board have trashed the Pats for not resigning Ben Watson who was not much of a factor for this team, but ignore the fact that the Jets lost Thomas Jones and the Dolphins lost Joey Porter and probably Jason Taylor (their #1 and #2 sack leaders last year and 36.4% of all their sacks for the year). Yes, the those teams have added players, but it is yet to be seen if the additions outweigh the subtractions.

the jets did not lose jones.....they dumped him

but that said, the pats are where they were at the end of last year.....minus watson, chris baker, jarvis green....that's the bottom line......some may percieve it as progress....I don't, but I also don't think those shoes are big to fill.....the problem is that we are talking about a team that in my opinion was closer to an 8-8 team (based on the outcomes of the week 1 bills and week 4 ravens) than a 12-4 team (based on the outcomes versus indy and dolphins)

I don't really care about what the other teams are doing....I simply don't believe this team is on the right track