RB situation...

[HarkDawg]

I don't think there will be a huge market for him and thus he won't cost a lot to keep. I do think BB values him enough to attempt to keep him here for relatively cheap depending on the market. Also, it's not always about whether he's going to stay. You can't trade everyone you don't think will be around the next year, especially when you have little to nothing to replace him with.

I said my two bits.... I want value for player that underperformed as a 1.



The Maroney Era must end and I am confident a deal can be worked out with Shanahan ....

it's called haggling... and that is what we need to do.

Maroney as a 4 or 3 would be a steal for Mike.

 

[HarkDawg]

Maroney can be a very good RB for the right team. New England is not that team. Trying to force a square peg into a round hole helps neither the Pats or Maroney. NE needs a power back a la Corey Dillon. NE needs a guy that they can give the ball to on 3rd and goal on the 1, the D knows a run is coming, and we still have a pretty good chance of getting the TD. For every 20+ yard highlight reel run Maroney has in NE he has about 5 dance around and lose 4 yard runs. A change of scenery would do both him and the Pats good, and if they get a draft pick for him all the better.

you sir are correct. Well said.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Maybe we could throw AD in as well to sweeten the pot, and the pick (slightly).

 

[emoney_33]

Couldn't we replace him with a rookie, as previously suggested?

You want to waste a high pick on a rookie or risk a higher chance of a non-contributor in 2010 with a low pick? This is not a team that relies on the run, and Maroney offers good production for what is asked of him. To trade him away prior to the draft and then lock yourself into having to draft a rookie RB is foolish IMO. There are much more needs on the D and future WR for example.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Posters like e-money convinced me that trading Maroney doesn't make sense. Maroney holds more value here than other teams.

If you trade Maroney, there is a big hole at RB because of 3 30+ year olds and BJGE left.

So if Washington trades their 3rd or 4th, that will be spent on a RB anyway.

Maroney is better than any 3rd or 4th round runningback in the draft.

 

[emoney_33]

I said my two bits.... I want value for player that underperformed as a 1.



The Maroney Era must end and I am confident a deal can be worked out with Shanahan ....

it's called haggling... and that is what we need to do.

Maroney as a 4 or 3 would be a steal for Mike.

as a 1? What the heck does that even mean?

Maroney has produced just fine since he's been drafted. It's not his fault if you placed higher expectations on him based on where he was drafted. If BB wanted a RB to get 20+ carries a game, he would have gotten one already.

 

[patsinthesnow]

If BB wanted a RB to get 20+ carries a game, he would have gotten one already.

Everyone should know that the runningback position has transformed 2005-present from the rest of the NFL years.

Their are probably 5 running backs in the nfl that get 20-25 carries a game. Most teams use a tandem of two. I can't explain this change, probably because of the passing attacks.
---------------------------------------------------
RB will soon be a position that will mostly be taken in the 2nd round unless there is a stud.

 

[HarkDawg]

1= 1st rounder



when do we ever pick 1st overall?

 

[emoney_33]

1= 1st rounder



when do we ever pick 1st overall?

And this is your number one problem. You see Maroney as "a 1st rounder". Being a 1st rounder is MEANINGLESS once the draft is done. To use his draft position 4 years ago in any type of analysis is asinine. He is a cheap RB who is productive at the NFL level, it doesn't matter if he was drafted 1st round or undrafted, that doesn't change the value he adds to the team TODAY.

 

[BradyFTW!]

1 star. Even if you think that Maroney is no good (and you'd be wrong for thinking that), you're still assuming that we can draft a rookie in the 4th round who will reliably replace his production.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I'm okay with them the way they are. Sure it can be upgraded but currently there are other more pressing needs on the team.
Maroney - I have no issues with him as our feature back or the way he ran last year, other than the fumble streak which I think he will fix. Potential for a breakout year or another strong finish like in '07.
Morris - Old but not much mileage since he's never been a feature, I'll take one more year of him.
Taylor - Looked great when healthy... if we conserve him for the playoffs I would feel alot safer in our ability to protect leads.
Faulk - Reliable as always
BJGE - Was expecting to see more out of him but never really got much of a shot last year and now I'd be suprised if that chagned. Clearly #5 and nothing much more than insurance in BB's eyes.

 

[HarkDawg]

And this is your number one problem. You see Maroney as "a 1st rounder". Being a 1st rounder is MEANINGLESS once the draft is done. To use his draft position 4 years ago in any type of analysis is asinine. He is a cheap RB who is productive at the NFL level, it doesn't matter if he was drafted 1st round or undrafted, that doesn't change the value he adds to the team TODAY.

I see him much more productive in Washington's system....


3 and 4 are good rounds especially w/ Washington.



We have zero 3's this year. I see Maroney as a chip to cash in on and to help in the rebuilding effort.



Look back at my earlier comments about 1's.

All 1's you need to hit w/ in some way or it is wasted value..... they r the first pick. Maroney is a 1 that did not work out,,, he was drafted what at 24 or so??

In a deep Draft I bet I find a better impact player w/ a Washington 3 or 4 than Maroney has been for the Patriots

Maroney isnt a Bust.... I can find better value for Maroney by trading for another pick in this very deep draft. Washington's pick gives me that ability.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Maroney is nothing special and his production wouldn't be missed, we could hire any number of backs to do what he does and we could pick up a draft pick at the same time which could have a lot more value to the team than he brings. He's also very inconsistent, he routinely gets tackled near the line yet he occasionally will break for several yards, skewing his numbers. Getting stopped cold so many times is very straining on a drive, and it has a totally different effect than someone who can consistently grind out a few yards, keeping the drive moving.

Getting a 3rd for Maroney would be a bargain.

 

[HarkDawg]

1 star. Even if you think that Maroney is no good (and you'd be wrong for thinking that), you're still assuming that we can draft a rookie in the 4th round who will reliably replace his production.

who ever said i was thinking about a RB in round 4?



I draft the best player possible for position....


with an extra 4 or 3

possibilities r endless to trade or pick etc....

 

[tanked_as_usual]

I'd get rid of taylor and morris before I would get rid of maroney


maroney is a 2M cap hit.........for a 24 year old RB going into his contract year? he was better value than any other pats RB except faulk

I'll keep him......the chances are we'll get more for him as a compensatory pick....although if the status of the CBA doesn't change, he will be an RFA

that said, Maroney is a waste of talent

I would dump taylor and morris, draft someone by the end of RD4 and sign someone else'd reject

look at it this way, shonn greene roughly did for the jets what the taylor/morris combo did for the pats.......except that he cost the jets around 500K while taylor/morris cost the pats 4M

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

1 star. Even if you think that Maroney is no good (and you'd be wrong for thinking that), you're still assuming that we can draft a rookie in the 4th round who will reliably replace his production.

No, I'm not assuming we can draft a rookie in the 4th to replace his production. The compensation we receive for him doesn't neccesarily have to be the pick we use to replace him. Last time I checked we have a 1st, and 3 2nd rounders. I'm sure we could get a RB at one of those positions to more than replace his production IMO.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Another way to look at it is, which RBs cannot be upgraded / replaced?

The answer is they all can be upgraded or replaced. If they do nothing the Pats have an average group of NFL RBs, so certainly there is room for improvement.

Quite correct. The Patriots RB core is eminently upgradeable. The only "keeper" I see out of the group is Kevin Faulk, and he turns 33 next season.

Can we take an 'objective' look at the RB that some are so keen on keeping? Maroney has poor vision, which is what leads to his dancing, and his pass blocking is also very poor. How many times do we need to see Brady killed, as in the Raven's game before we decide we need to upgrade the RB position?

In any case let's examine Maroney's performance in the 2009 regular season.

NFL top 27 leading rushers in 2009.

Rk Player Team Pos Att Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Lng 1st 1st% 20+ 40+ FUM 
1 Chris Johnson  TEN  RB  358  22.4  2,006  5.6  125.4  14  91T  79  22.1  22  7  3  
2 Steven Jackson  STL  RB  324  21.6  1,416  4.4  94.4  4  58  61  18.8  10  2  2  
3 Thomas Jones  NYJ  RB  331  20.7  1,402  4.2  87.6  14  71T  64  19.3  8  2  2  
4 Maurice Jones-Drew  JAC  RB  312  19.5  1,391  4.5  86.9  15  80T  68  21.8  8  3  2  
5 Adrian Peterson  MIN  RB  314  19.6  1,383  4.4  86.4  18  64T  74  23.6  12  3  6  
6 Ray Rice  BAL  RB  254  15.9  1,339  5.3  83.7  7  59T  54  21.3  11  3  2  
7 Ryan Grant  GB  RB  282  17.6  1,253  4.4  78.3  11  62T  61  21.6  8  2  0  
8 Cedric Benson  CIN  RB  301  23.2  1,251  4.2  96.2  6  42  57  18.9  10  1  1  
9 Jonathan Stewart  CAR  RB  221  13.8  1,133  5.1  70.8  10  67T  54  24.4  11  3  3  
10 Ricky Williams  MIA  RB  241  15.1  1,121  4.7  70.1  11  68T  55  22.8  4  2  4  
11 Jamaal Charles  KC  RB  190  12.7  1,120  5.9  74.7  7  76T  54  28.4  9  5  2  
11 Frank Gore  SF  RB  229  16.4  1,120  4.9  80.0  10  80T  47  20.5  11  4  4  
13 DeAngelo Williams  CAR  RB  216  16.6  1,117  5.2  85.9  7  77  51  23.6  7  3  3  
14 Rashard Mendenhall  PIT  RB  242  15.1  1,108  4.6  69.2  7  60  48  19.8  9  1  3  
15 Fred Jackson  BUF  RB  237  14.8  1,062  4.5  66.4  2  43  43  18.1  5  1  2  
16 Knowshon Moreno  DEN  RB  247  15.4  947  3.8  59.2  7  36  52  21.1  2  0  2  
17 Marion Barber  DAL  RB  214  14.3  932  4.4  62.1  7  35  58  27.1  5  0  1  
18 Matt Forte  CHI  RB  258  16.1  929  3.6  58.1  4  61  39  15.1  3  2  5  
19 Michael Turner  ATL  RB  178  16.2  871  4.9  79.2  10  58T  43  24.2  9  2  4  
20 Jerome Harrison  CLE  RB  194  13.9  862  4.4  61.6  5  71T  37  19.1  3  1  2  
21 Brandon Jacobs  NYG  RB  224  14.9  835  3.7  55.7  5  31  43  19.2  2  0  2  
22 Joseph Addai  IND  RB  219  14.6  828  3.8  55.2  10  21T  44  20.1  2  0  1  
23 Cadillac Williams  TB  RB  211  13.2  823  3.9  51.4  4  35  43  20.4  7  0  1  
24 Pierre Thomas  NO  RB  147  10.5  793  5.4  56.6  6  34T  36  24.5  7  0  1  
24 Beanie Wells  ARI  RB  176  11.0  793  4.5  49.6  7  33  39  22.2  4  0  4  
26 Ahmad Bradshaw  NYG  RB  163  10.9  778  4.8  51.9  7  38  46  28.2  6  0  3  
[b]27 Laurence Maroney  NE  RB  194  12.9  757  3.9  50.5  9  45T  44  22.7  2  1  3[/b]

Notice that Laurence Maroney is the #27th rusher in the NFL in terms of total yardage. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't an AVERAGE caliber starting running back register somewhere in the #15-16 range? There are 32 teams in the NFL, yet here we have Maroney as the 27th overall yardage producer for a RB. That's well BELOW average.

Ok, how about Maroney's much vaunted YPC stat. How did he fare among NFL runningbacks in 2009? Oh that's right he registered a 3.9 ypc. Where does that rank him among those 27 RBs listed above? Well, out of those top 27 RB's, Maroney ranked as #23rd overall. That number is well below average, in fact it is worse than mediocre.

2009 YPC of top 27 NFL RBs. Sorted for your convenience.

1 Jamaal Charles  KC  RB  1,120  5.9
2 Chris Johnson  TEN  RB 2,006  5.6
3 Pierre Thomas  NO  RB  793  5.4
4 Ray Rice  BAL  RB  1,339  5.3
5 DeAngelo Williams  CAR  RB  1,117  5.2
6 Jonathan Stewart  CAR  RB  1,133  5.1
7 Frank Gore  SF  RB  1,120  4.9
8 Michael Turner  ATL  RB 871  4.9
9 Ahmad Bradshaw  NYG  RB  778  4.8
10 Ricky Williams  MIA  RB  1,121  4.7
11 Rashard Mendenhall  PIT  RB  1,108  4.6
12 Maurice Jones-Drew  JAC  RB  1,391 4.5
13 Fred Jackson  BUF  RB  1,062  4.5
14 Beanie Wells  ARI  RB  793  4.5
15 Steven Jackson  STL  RB  1,416  4.4
16 Adrian Peterson  MIN  RB  1,383  4.4
17 Ryan Grant  GB  RB  1,253  4.4 
18 Marion Barber  DAL  RB  932  4.4
19 Jerome Harrison  CLE  RB  862  4.4
20 Thomas Jones  NYJ  RB 1,402  4.2
21 Cedric Benson  CIN  RB  1,251  4.2
22 Cadillac Williams  TB  823  3.9
[b]23 Laurence Maroney  NE  RB  757  3.9[/b]
24 Knowshon Moreno  DEN  RB  947  3.8
25 Joseph Addai  IND  RB  828  3.8
26 Brandon Jacobs  NYG  RB  835  3.7
27 Matt Forte  CHI  RB  929  3.6

So exactly what are we holding onto here with Maroney? Based on his 2009 rushing performance, he looks like a BELOW AVERAGE RB. Factor in his poor vision, very poor pass blocking, and suddenly developed case of fumbleitis, he looks even worse than mediocre. Does Maroney have ANY upside left after 4 seasons of mediocrity and a well below mediocre 2009? Answer: VERY LITTLE.

So what do we have to lose by drafting a rookie RB in 2010 to replace Maroney? Answer: NOT A WHOLE LOT. If that rookie can do any better than 27th in rushing and 23rd in YPC, we will have a NET IMPROVEMENT over Laurence Maroney's production in 2009.

If the Patriots don't plan on keeping Maroney beyond 2010, why not get a pick for him now that they can then invest in another area of need instead? The numbers above are just the cold hard facts. Just some food for thought here. Are we really missing out on anything special by moving on from Laurence Maroney? You be the judge.

NFL Rushing Statistics courtesy of NFL.com:
NFL Stats: by Player Category

 

[emoney_33]

No, I'm not assuming we can draft a rookie in the 4th to replace his production. The compensation we receive for him doesn't neccesarily have to be the pick we use to replace him. Last time I checked we have a 1st, and 3 2nd rounders. I'm sure we could get a RB at one of those positions to more than replace his production IMO.

We have holes on the defense and are in need of WR for the future for one and a TE or two. We aren't a team that relies on the run and never will be. Wasting a 1st/2nd for a RB to replace Maroney is NOT helping this team. You can say all you want about Maroney, but there is nothing wrong with him. He adds CHEAP value to the team.

Some of you really need to get over your feelings of Maroney that are completely based on draft position which is the dumbest possible way to analyze a player's worth. If he was a 4th round pick, making the same exact money, producing at the same exact levels, it would be NO different. I can't for the life of me understand how people's brains can even end up on the conclusion that where he was drafted 4 years ago plays a part in his value to the team in 2010 and beyond.

Our running game is NOT an issue, aside from our current depth being 2 old injury plagued RBs. This topic is intent on CREATING an issue at RB, only to waste a high draft pick to get a CHANCE of making up for it.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Quite correct. The Patriots RB core is eminently upgradeable. The only "keeper" I see out of the group is Kevin Faulk, and he turns 33 next season.

Can we take an 'objective' look at the RB that some are so keen on keeping? Maroney has poor vision, which is what leads to his dancing, and his pass blocking is also very poor. How many times do we need to see Brady killed, as in the Raven's game before we decide we need to upgrade the RB position?

In any case let's examine Maroney's performance in the 2009 regular season.

NFL top 27 leading rushers in 2009.

Rk Player Team Pos Att Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Lng 1st 1st% 20+ 40+ FUM 
1 Chris Johnson  TEN  RB  358  22.4  2,006  5.6  125.4  14  91T  79  22.1  22  7  3  
2 Steven Jackson  STL  RB  324  21.6  1,416  4.4  94.4  4  58  61  18.8  10  2  2  
3 Thomas Jones  NYJ  RB  331  20.7  1,402  4.2  87.6  14  71T  64  19.3  8  2  2  
4 Maurice Jones-Drew  JAC  RB  312  19.5  1,391  4.5  86.9  15  80T  68  21.8  8  3  2  
5 Adrian Peterson  MIN  RB  314  19.6  1,383  4.4  86.4  18  64T  74  23.6  12  3  6  
6 Ray Rice  BAL  RB  254  15.9  1,339  5.3  83.7  7  59T  54  21.3  11  3  2  
7 Ryan Grant  GB  RB  282  17.6  1,253  4.4  78.3  11  62T  61  21.6  8  2  0  
8 Cedric Benson  CIN  RB  301  23.2  1,251  4.2  96.2  6  42  57  18.9  10  1  1  
9 Jonathan Stewart  CAR  RB  221  13.8  1,133  5.1  70.8  10  67T  54  24.4  11  3  3  
10 Ricky Williams  MIA  RB  241  15.1  1,121  4.7  70.1  11  68T  55  22.8  4  2  4  
11 Jamaal Charles  KC  RB  190  12.7  1,120  5.9  74.7  7  76T  54  28.4  9  5  2  
11 Frank Gore  SF  RB  229  16.4  1,120  4.9  80.0  10  80T  47  20.5  11  4  4  
13 DeAngelo Williams  CAR  RB  216  16.6  1,117  5.2  85.9  7  77  51  23.6  7  3  3  
14 Rashard Mendenhall  PIT  RB  242  15.1  1,108  4.6  69.2  7  60  48  19.8  9  1  3  
15 Fred Jackson  BUF  RB  237  14.8  1,062  4.5  66.4  2  43  43  18.1  5  1  2  
16 Knowshon Moreno  DEN  RB  247  15.4  947  3.8  59.2  7  36  52  21.1  2  0  2  
17 Marion Barber  DAL  RB  214  14.3  932  4.4  62.1  7  35  58  27.1  5  0  1  
18 Matt Forte  CHI  RB  258  16.1  929  3.6  58.1  4  61  39  15.1  3  2  5  
19 Michael Turner  ATL  RB  178  16.2  871  4.9  79.2  10  58T  43  24.2  9  2  4  
20 Jerome Harrison  CLE  RB  194  13.9  862  4.4  61.6  5  71T  37  19.1  3  1  2  
21 Brandon Jacobs  NYG  RB  224  14.9  835  3.7  55.7  5  31  43  19.2  2  0  2  
22 Joseph Addai  IND  RB  219  14.6  828  3.8  55.2  10  21T  44  20.1  2  0  1  
23 Cadillac Williams  TB  RB  211  13.2  823  3.9  51.4  4  35  43  20.4  7  0  1  
24 Pierre Thomas  NO  RB  147  10.5  793  5.4  56.6  6  34T  36  24.5  7  0  1  
24 Beanie Wells  ARI  RB  176  11.0  793  4.5  49.6  7  33  39  22.2  4  0  4  
26 Ahmad Bradshaw  NYG  RB  163  10.9  778  4.8  51.9  7  38  46  28.2  6  0  3  
[b]27 Laurence Maroney  NE  RB  194  12.9  757  3.9  50.5  9  45T  44  22.7  2  1  3[/b]

Notice that Laurence Maroney is the #27th rusher in the NFL in terms of total yardage. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't an AVERAGE caliber starting running back register somewhere in the #15-16 range? There are 32 teams in the NFL, yet here we have Maroney as the 27th overall yardage producer for a RB. That's well BELOW average.

Ok, how about Maroney's much vaunted YPC stat. How did he fare among NFL runningbacks in 2009? Oh that's right he registered a 3.9 ypc. Where does that rank him among those 27 RBs listed above? Well, out of those top 27 RB's, Maroney ranked as #23rd overall. That number is well below average, in fact it is worse than mediocre.

2009 YPC of top 27 NFL RBs. Sorted for your convenience.

1 Jamaal Charles  KC  RB  1,120  5.9
2 Chris Johnson  TEN  RB 2,006  5.6
3 Pierre Thomas  NO  RB  793  5.4
4 Ray Rice  BAL  RB  1,339  5.3
5 DeAngelo Williams  CAR  RB  1,117  5.2
6 Jonathan Stewart  CAR  RB  1,133  5.1
7 Frank Gore  SF  RB  1,120  4.9
8 Michael Turner  ATL  RB 871  4.9
9 Ahmad Bradshaw  NYG  RB  778  4.8
10 Ricky Williams  MIA  RB  1,121  4.7
11 Rashard Mendenhall  PIT  RB  1,108  4.6
12 Maurice Jones-Drew  JAC  RB  1,391 4.5
13 Fred Jackson  BUF  RB  1,062  4.5
14 Beanie Wells  ARI  RB  793  4.5
15 Steven Jackson  STL  RB  1,416  4.4
16 Adrian Peterson  MIN  RB  1,383  4.4
17 Ryan Grant  GB  RB  1,253  4.4 
18 Marion Barber  DAL  RB  932  4.4
19 Jerome Harrison  CLE  RB  862  4.4
20 Thomas Jones  NYJ  RB 1,402  4.2
21 Cedric Benson  CIN  RB  1,251  4.2
22 Cadillac Williams  TB  823  3.9
[b]23 Laurence Maroney  NE  RB  757  3.9[/b]
24 Knowshon Moreno  DEN  RB  947  3.8
25 Joseph Addai  IND  RB  828  3.8
26 Matt Forte  CHI  RB  929  3.6
27 Brandon Jacobs  NYG  RB  835  3.7

So exactly what are we holding onto here with Maroney? Based on his 2009 rushing performance, he looks like a BELOW AVERAGE RB. Factor in his poor vision, very poor pass blocking, and suddenly developed case of fumbleitis, he looks even worse than mediocre. Does Maroney have ANY upside left after 4 seasons of mediocrity and a well below mediocre 2009? Answer: VERY LITTLE.

So what do we have to lose by drafting a rookie RB in 2010 to replace Maroney? Answer: NOT A WHOLE LOT. If that rookie can do any better than 27th in rushing and 23rd in YPC, we will have a NET IMPROVEMENT over Laurence Maroney's production in 2009.

If the Patriots don't plan on keeping Maroney beyond 2010, why not get a pick for him now that they can then invest in another area of need instead? The numbers above are just the cold hard facts. Just some food for thought here. Are we really missing out on anything special by moving on from Laurence Maroney? You be the judge.

NFL Rushing Statistics courtesy of NFL.com:
NFL Stats: by Player Category

I was initially holding onto the hope that he would really amp it up this year, as it is a contract year, but maybe I'm just kidding myself.

Upon further review, and reading this post I completely agree.

He's not going to get any better, and quite frankly the fumbles last year were inexcusable.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Everyone should know that the runningback position has transformed 2005-present from the rest of the NFL years.

Their are probably 5 running backs in the nfl that get 20-25 carries a game. Most teams use a tandem of two. I can't explain this change, probably because of the passing attacks.
---------------------------------------------------
RB will soon be a position that will mostly be taken in the 2nd round unless there is a stud.

Last year, there were 4 players last year who averaged over 20 carries a game and 12 over 241 carries.

In 2004, there were 12 runners who averaged over 20 carries a game and 20 with over 240 caries.

In 1999, there were 8 RBs w/ 20+ carries a game and 19 w/ over 240 carries a game.

In 1994, there were 4 RBs w/ 20+ carries a game and 14 RBs w/ more than 240 carries.

Not sure what the trend is here. No question that there is more passing. I'd be interested to see # of league rushing attempts over the last 30 years. My assumption is that those numbers would be on a steady downward trend.