One scout says...the Pats are slowest in the NFL!

[yopats]

This is from Daniel Jeremiah former Browns and Ravens scout. aka Move the Sticks

I found this quite interesting.. should be an interesting convo..

Via Twitter
"Here's a topic for the twitter tribe: What NFL team would you say is the fastest and what team is the slowest??"

RT @Fresh_Logic: r u talking about how they play or just overall speed at various skill positions?>> both...

For the fastest NFL team, some that come to mind are PHI, N.O., IND, OAK... Some of the slowest: SEA, NE, KC, CLE

Interesting topic b/c I have talked to a couple different NFL execs that think N.E. is one of the slowest teams out there

 

[Mogamedogz]

Re: One Scout says.. the Pats are Slowest in the NFL!

Cant say i disagree. Outside of Moss who has slowed some... Who else is there?

 

[unoriginal]

Re: One Scout says.. the Pats are Slowest in the NFL!

It's the premium for the 3-cone over the 40 yard dash. Other teams undervalue agility and quickness.

 

[patriotscpfc]

Re: One Scout says.. the Pats are Slowest in the NFL!

Tate, Butler, Guyton are 3 examples of our quick players.

AD is pretty quick if he wants it enough (example: SD INT TD in 07)

I'd say most of our Secondary is quick.

Wes is quick, but not fast. Edelman is fast.

Our Linemen are fast for their size with them needing to be there for the Screen Game. I'd guess that Mankins can't be far off one of the fastest Guards in the League.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Re: One Scout says.. the Pats are Slowest in the NFL!

Cant say i disagree. Outside of Moss who has slowed some... Who else is there?

Agreed. This is no shocker at all.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Re: One Scout says.. the Pats are Slowest in the NFL!

If Minnesota gets LT, then they would have to be the quickest; they already have Percy Harvin, the quickest WR I have seen in years.

The Patriots are the slowest now when you consider that Moss has three ice pack (both knees and back)....and the rest of the fast WRs are injured or about to be (Edelman).

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Re: One Scout says.. the Pats are Slowest in the NFL!

It's the premium for the 3-cone over the 40 yard dash. Other teams undervalue agility and quickness.

Especially at the RB and WR positions. The 3 cone is so much more important because it shows the ability of these players in terms of change of direction which is vastly undervalued as opposed to flat speed. How often in the NFL is a player going to be running a straight line?

 

[livinginthe past]

Re: One Scout says.. the Pats are Slowest in the NFL!

I'm willing to bet that this 'scouts' perception is strongly colored by how the front 7 operates.

Look at the 'fast teams' - 4-3 defenses - naturally this includes two pass rushing DE's and probably a pass rushing DT.

The LBers are going to be smaller, but more agile - they aren't going to be asked to shed blocks but they are going to read and react to plays and 'gang tackle' - think Colts.

Look at Gary Brackett - that guy seem to spend more time running away from the LOS swatting at passes than moving forward and making hits.

Philly blitzes alot - that will help a team look 'fast'.

Its interesting that New England get thrown in with 'slow' teams that also happen to be horrible.

I mean really, are we supposed to think that Seattle, Cleveland and KC make for a genuine comparison?

How fast are the Steelers?

Outside of Polamalu - not very.

How fast are the Ravens?

Outside of Ed Reed and Suggs...not very.

The perception of 3-4 defenses is going to be governed by the fact that they have 3 guys up front whose primary objective is to occupy blockers and eat space.

 

[BSR]

I can't remember any Patriots teams in the last decades that were really built on speed. Some teams were faster then others, but they were never about speed, defense in particular.

 

[yopats]

Re: One Scout says.. the Pats are Slowest in the NFL!

Especially at the RB and WR positions. The 3 cone is so much more important because it shows the ability of these players in terms of change of direction which is so much more important than flat speed. How often in the NFL is a player going to be running a straight line?

I don't the comment from Jeremiah was limited to straight line speed but overall speed taking in consideration of the skill players as well.

I do think they have been addressing this issue on the Def. side of things the last couple of years and I expect that to cont.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Re: One Scout says.. the Pats are Slowest in the NFL!

I'm willing to bet that this 'scouts' perception is strongly colored by how the front 7 operates.

Look at the 'fast teams' - 4-3 defenses - naturally this includes two pass rushing DE's and probably a pass rushing DT.

The LBers are going to be smaller, but more agile - they aren't going to be asked to shed blocks but they are going to read and react to plays and 'gang tackle' - think Colts.

Look at Gary Brackett - that guy seem to spend more time running away from the LOS swatting at passes than moving forward and making hits.

Philly blitzes alot - that will help a team look 'fast'.

Its interesting that New England get thrown in with 'slow' teams that also happen to be horrible.

I mean really, are we supposed to think that Seattle, Cleveland and KC make for a genuine comparison?

How fast are the Steelers?

Outside of Polamalu - not very.

How fast are the Ravens?

Outside of Ed Reed and Suggs...not very.

The perception of 3-4 defenses is going to be governed by the fact that they have 3 guys up front whose primary objective is to occupy blockers and eat space.

I don't know. I think the Steelers backers are pretty fast.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Re: One Scout says.. the Pats are Slowest in the NFL!

I don't the comment from Jeremiah was limited to straight line speed but overall speed taking in consideration of the skill players as well.

I do think they have been addressing this issue on the Def. side of things the last couple of years and I expect that to cont.

True. I'm just saying we need to stop over valuing draft prospects based solely on 40 times.

 

[patsinthesnow]

If I had a choice between the speedy colts who have the size of highschool players, or the pats who aren't fast but are big and can hurt,I'd choose the Pats.

The Colts D is vastly overrated. If you execute ,you can run all over them of gash them through the air (1st half Colts game). Peyton helps that Defense by screwing with coaches minds coaching offense the offense.

3-4 owns tampa 2 midgets

 

[livinginthe past]

Re: One Scout says.. the Pats are Slowest in the NFL!

I don't know. I think the Steelers backers are pretty fast.

Is Harrison faster than Adalius Thomas - i'm not critiquing perfomance here because thats an obvious no contest.

Is LaMarr Woodley faster than TBC?

What about the ILB pairing of Timmons/Farrior vs Mayo/Guyton?

I would say the first two are a wash in terms of speed - and that Mayo and Guyton are comfortably quicker as a team.

How do you see it?

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Re: One Scout says.. the Pats are Slowest in the NFL!

Is Harrison faster than Adalius Thomas - i'm not critiquing perfomance here because thats an obvious no contest.

Is LaMarr Woodley faster than TBC?

What about the ILB pairing of Timmons/Farrior vs Mayo/Guyton?

I would say the first two are a wash in terms of speed - and that Mayo and Guyton are comfortably quicker as a team.

How do you see it?

In terms of PLAYING speed I feel the Steelers backers are flat out faster. Their linebackers have made countless game changing plays with their speed...how many have ours made? I keep having flash backs of that Harrison int. before halftime against the Cardinals that he returned for a 101 yd. TD. I don't see anyone on this team at LB doing that.

 

[Rob0729]

I am willing to bet the 2001, 2003, and 2004 Patriots were among the slowest teams in the NFL too if not the slowest. In fact, I think the Pats' secondary in 2001 was much slower than the 2009 Patriots secondary. During the Super Bowl years, the Pats main edge rushers were McGinest and Vrabel and they were probably the slowest DE/OLBs in the league those years. Other than Bethel Johnson, what WR did the Pats have during the Super Bowl years that were particular fast?

The Pats use a read and react style of defense, that means that speed is not nearly as important as say a Tampa 2 defense where speed is everything. The Pats could stand to upgrade some speed at places, but the offense has always depended on quick, not fast WRs (except Moss) and a read and react defense.

The problems with this team have little to do with speed although it wouldn't hurt to upgrade it.

 

[livinginthe past]

Re: One Scout says.. the Pats are Slowest in the NFL!

In terms of PLAYING speed I feel the Steelers backers are flat out faster. Their linebackers have made countless game changing plays with their speed...how many have ours made? I keep having flash backs of that Harrison int. before halftime against the Cardinals that he returned for a 101 yd. TD. I don't see anyone on this team at LB doing that.

Come on.

The guy was having a heart attack after that run-back.

When people start talking about 'playing speed' you are entering murky waters.

Harrison is a great player - him and LaMarr Woodley are way better than anything we have on our roster at that position

They both use a rare combination of speed and strength to beat their guys - they both 'play fast' because they are better at diagnosing plays and then reacting to them.

Simply put, they are just 'better'.

 

[blackcat54]

Re: One Scout says.. the Pats are Slowest in the NFL!

Tate, Butler, Guyton are 3 examples of our quick players.

AD is pretty quick if he wants it enough (example: SD INT TD in 07)

I'd say most of our Secondary is quick.

Wes is quick, but not fast. Edelman is fast.

Our Linemen are fast for their size with them needing to be there for the Screen Game. I'd guess that Mankins can't be far off one of the fastest Guards in the League.

Look at Edelman's cone drill times and tell me he is not seriously quick. Once he stops thinking so much he will look much quicker on the field.
Julian Edelman*|*Kent State,*WR*:*2009 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

 

[spacecrime]

We need to define terms to have any chance of communicating in this thread.

People have been using 'quick' and 'fast' interchangeably. In evaluating football players, particularly receivers and EBs, I don't think they mean the same thing, and are measured differently at the Combine.

Also, it is not necessarily true that fast is the ideal. While it is generally better to be fast than slow, in some positions size and weight are more important. Dan Klecko and Jarvis Green were probably faster than Wilfork, Washington and Traylor, but they didn't excel in the NT position.

Acknkowledging that everyone wants to get younger and faster on defense, the unspoken assumption is to get younger and faster players who are better than your older and slower players. Monty Beisel was young and fast compared to Tedy, for instance, and a few years ago Bethel Johnson was MUCH younger and MUCH faster than Troy Brown, but who wanted to make those switches at the time?

 

[spacecrime]

Re: One Scout says.. the Pats are Slowest in the NFL!

In terms of PLAYING speed I feel the Steelers backers are flat out faster. Their linebackers have made countless game changing plays with their speed...how many have ours made? I keep having flash backs of that Harrison int. before halftime against the Cardinals that he returned for a 101 yd. TD. I don't see anyone on this team at LB doing that.

Are you saying that Harrsion is faster than Mayo and Guyton?