So...Pats' possible moves

[ivanvamp]

We have, in the Patsfans rumor mill:

- Branch getting traded to the Pats for a 4th round pick
- Pats signing Peppers
- Pats trading Maroney for Cromartie

If they're able to do that, keep Bodden, extend Wilfork and Brady, and not kill the team for the future....heck, I'm all for it!

 

[patsinthesnow]

I want this post stickied haha, to see how many come true.

My prediction is 1.

 

[BradyManny]

If we cut/trade AD, and do some other housekeeping, we could probably get the cap # around 85 million. If there were to be a cap this season, it would've been around 135 million.

It's hard for me to accept that for 50 million we can't a) extend Brady b) retain Wilfork [if he doesn't want to break the bank c) sign Peppers d) grab a guy like Branch or Antonio Bryant.

Basically, what I'm getting at - we have a lot of money to work with this offseason as long Kraft is OK with spending it.

 

[MrTibbs]

I say NONE.............no way the Seahawks keep Branch and teams know that. Why give them something when you know you can get him for nothing. Along with that why would you want Branch who's always hurt? Moss hurt, Welker hurt, Tate hurt and Branch hurt. Wouldn't it make sense to finally get a healthy wide reciever?

 

[Patspsycho]

I say NONE.............no way the Seahawks keep Branch and teams know that. Why give them something when you know you can get him for nothing. Along with that why would you want Branch who's always hurt? Moss hurt, Welker hurt, Tate hurt and Branch hurt. Wouldn't it make sense to finally get a healthy wide reciever?

Thank you for exhibiting signs of intelligent life.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

The Chargers are NOT trading for Maroney,Where do these freaking rumors come from?

 

[mcmurtry86]

The Chargers are NOT trading for Maroney,Where do these freaking rumors come from?

Comes from people hearing the "Cromartie possibly being shopped for a RB (namely Tashard Choice)" rumor and assuming they would be happy to take Maroney instead of Choice or a better RB (i.e. they're complete fabrications)

None of these 3 "rumors" will happen.

 

[chevss454]

If we cut/trade AD, and do some other housekeeping, we could probably get the cap # around 85 million. If there were to be a cap this season, it would've been around 135 million.

It's hard for me to accept that for 50 million we can't a) extend Brady b) retain Wilfork [if he doesn't want to break the bank c) sign Peppers d) grab a guy like Branch or Antonio Bryant.

Basically, what I'm getting at - we have a lot of money to work with this offseason as long Kraft is OK with spending it.

d) I know Branch knows the "system" but I have concerns about his health. Bryant doesn't know the "system" but he doesn't have health issues, won't cost a 4th rnd pick but will demand more money. He brings a little baggage, personality wise as well. Tradeoffs...ugh. Any thoughts?

I've read many articles, including the WSJ, which predict many teams will spend far less this yr because of the uncapped floor. To do that many teams will be cutting highly paid players and the owners will pocket the cash difference. Estimates range from $50 to $60 million range. If this happens, a flood of veterans may hit the market after June 1. How the FO decides to play this could go a long way towards determining how good the Pats will be next year.

I think RK and BB are savvy enough to take advantage of all these players who are expected to be cut from their present teams. Patience is a virtue!

 

[patsinthesnow]

If we cut/trade AD, and do some other housekeeping, we could probably get the cap # around 85 million. If there were to be a cap this season, it would've been around 135 million.

It's hard for me to accept that for 50 million we can't a) extend Brady b) retain Wilfork [if he doesn't want to break the bank c) sign Peppers d) grab a guy like Branch or Antonio Bryant.

Basically, what I'm getting at - we have a lot of money to work with this offseason as long Kraft is OK with spending it.

Thanks for the cap info. As long as Kraft spends it, we could have Peppers and Vince. The draft picks could cover the rest of the needs.

 

[MrTibbs]

Thank you for exhibiting signs of intelligent life.

Hey @$$hole What are you trying to say? Where is your "Glorious" ultra intelligent post?

The question was which rumor do you think would possibly happen? At least that's what I got out of it. I'd love a Peppers signing but when you have all the FA's the Patriots have right now and Brady needing an extentsion I just don't see it happening.


Why do we need another ALWAYS HURT WR to add to a depleted roster? Cromartie had one good season the rest were mediocre as the same for Maroney. A trade for Cromartie for Maroney is a wash in my book.

 

[Rob0729]

I think Peppers is the most likely of the rumors. Belichick seems to love the guy and the last time he talked about a player on a team he was about to play like he talked about Peppers when the Pats played Carolina, the Pats signed him as a free agent (Rosie Colvin). There is far too much smoke on this rumor for the Pats not to be at least mildly interested.

The other two are less likely. The Maroney for Cromartie is purely speculation and no rumor at all. Branch could happen, but he will most likely will have to want to take a pay cut.

 

[BradyManny]

I think RK and BB are savvy enough to take advantage of all these players who are expected to be cut from their present teams. Patience is a virtue!

I hope so. We should also take advantage of the fact we fell outside the Top 8.

Miguel's page is always the go-to place, of course, heres a further look:

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2010 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

Current cap: 94 milli

Some fat that may be trimmed (not saying all these guys get cut, or any of them, but likely at least AD) [these are cap hit #s, not just salaries, so, without a salary cap, they may be less relevant, but we have to base it in something]:

Springs = 3 milli
AD = 9 milli
Koppen = 5 milli

And then you have positions where they may be redundancy or a younger guy could supplant a vet, or where a player may be in need of a restructure if they want to stay...Maroney 2 milli/Taylor 2.7 milli; Kazcur 3.5 milli/Light 4.5 milli, Sanders 3 milli [looking much safer after a late season resurgence].

The truth about the Pats roster right now is that they have a lot of players who are slightly underperforming their contract value (the above players). It's no knock on these players, they are all (except AD) playing pretty well - just not necessarily well enough to deserve the money allocated to them.

Fortunately, if Kraft is willing to simply just pay these guys, then we go into next season with great depth at these positions, such as RB & OT, and don't worry about whether guys are mildly overpaid or not. And we still have money to sign some FAs.

 

[supafly]

If we cut/trade AD, and do some other housekeeping, we could probably get the cap # around 85 million. If there were to be a cap this season, it would've been around 135 million.

It's hard for me to accept that for 50 million we can't a) extend Brady b) retain Wilfork [if he doesn't want to break the bank c) sign Peppers d) grab a guy like Branch or Antonio Bryant.

Basically, what I'm getting at - we have a lot of money to work with this offseason as long Kraft is OK with spending it.

This theory would make a great amount of sense IF the Krafts weren't planning for the potential lockout in 2011.

I have thought the same thing as you many, many times. "Why don't they simply just spend up to where the cap would've/should've been this year?" Meaning if it was 127 last year, then it should be approx. up to your 135 projection--meaning we'd be approx. 45 million or so under the cap, etc.

This theory would've been fine had there been no high percentage chance of a lockout in 2011. Many owners are planning for the work stoppage, and are thus going to halt their spending accordingly--it's still a business, and the #1 motive is to make money. Since they won't make near the same money in 2011, they will simply shorten spending on player's salaries to increase profits in a 'slighted' year.

Where some teams could take advantage of this un-capped situation, by spending what they want and front-loading contracts to this year--the Krafts will simply still find a way to remain 'competitive,' and spend accordingly. I'm not knocking or praising their practice, because they have proven to field a competitive team and I'm just a simple fan, who wouldn't claim to know enough of the ins/outs of their successful practice.

My guess is that your projected number of 45-50 million will be more like 20-25 million, and once we re-sign Brady (IMO), or Wilfork, we will then make some of our own re-signings and a couple 'lesser' type signings, possibly less than last year. I believe Johnathon Kraft has stated multiple times that they do not want to risk anything against their winning formula, by taking too many 'risks' in an un-capped year. After all, they have developed quite a decent way of running the team in a capped system--and things will be up in the air in many ways.

This is simply my opinion on it, and I could very well be way off base. There have been some better posters than me who claim that we will spend a decent amount--based on past years spending etc. In my opinion, those figures won't come in to as much play as some may think due to not knowing about the CBA, whether or not they will return to a capped system, and the probability of a lockout/work stoppage next year.

 

[Rob0729]

I hope so. We should also take advantage of the fact we fell outside the Top 8.

Miguel's page is always the go-to place, of course, heres a further look:

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2010 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

Current cap: 94 milli

Some fat that may be trimmed (not saying all these guys get cut, or any of them, but likely at least AD) [these are cap hit #s, not just salaries, so, without a salary cap, they may be less relevant, but we have to base it in something]:

Springs = 3 milli
AD = 9 milli
Koppen = 5 milli

And then you have positions where they may be redundancy or a younger guy could supplant a vet, or where a player may be in need of a restructure if they want to stay...Maroney 2 milli/Taylor 2.7 milli; Kazcur 3.5 milli/Light 4.5 milli, Sanders 3 milli [looking much safer after a late season resurgence].

The truth about the Pats roster right now is that they have a lot of players who are slightly underperforming their contract value (the above players). It's no knock on these players, they are all (except AD) playing pretty well - just not necessarily well enough to deserve the money allocated to them.

Fortunately, if Kraft is willing to simply just pay these guys, then we go into next season with great depth at these positions, such as RB & OT, and don't worry about whether guys are mildly overpaid or not. And we still have money to sign some FAs.

Well, it is likely that there will be no cap this year. So the more important number from Miguel's page is that the Pats have only committed about $64 million in actual payroll. Since 2004, the lowest payroll they have had is about $94 million (according to USA Today which Jonathan Kraft says is a low estimate). So, the Pats have about $30 million to go before they have matched their lowest payroll since they have won their last Super Bowl and about $60 million to match their largest. And team revenues have grown significantly since 2004.

 

[Kontradiction]

The Chargers are NOT trading for Maroney,Where do these freaking rumors come from?

 

[BradyManny]

Well, it is likely that there will be no cap this year. So the more important number from Miguel's page is that the Pats have only committed about $64 million in actual payroll. Since 2004, the lowest payroll they have had is about $94 million (according to USA Today which Jonathan Kraft says is a low estimate). So, the Pats have about $30 million to go before they have matched their lowest payroll since they have won their last Super Bowl and about $60 million to match their largest. And team revenues have grown significantly since 2004.

Good way of looking at it. And if we go purely by payroll, then we should discount signing bonuses when planning out potential FA signings. Basically meaning we have even that much more $$ to work with.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Pats sign Peppers....thats all thats going to happen.

 

[BradyManny]

This is simply my opinion on it, and I could very well be way off base. There have been some better posters than me who claim that we will spend a decent amount--based on past years spending etc. In my opinion, those figures won't come in to as much play as some may think due to not knowing about the CBA, whether or not they will return to a capped system, and the probability of a lockout/work stoppage next year.

I think its a very valid opinion - and certainly one way it plays out, but I really hope not.

Everything is pointing towards this team needing to be aggressive in free agency and really going for it in 2010...

- Draft picks not panning out as well as hoped, or not fast enough
- Whether BB/Kraft want to admit it or not, this run of good fortune may not outlast Brady, each year with a healthy Brady going forward is a year they must be aggressive.
- Falling outside of the top 8 could work towards our advantage. We are likely a top 8 team in reality, we MUST take advantage of the misfortune of being knocked out in the first round, as we have an opportunity other elite teams like the Saints/Colts/Chargers will not have.
- Other teams could be more cautious in free agency (or are handcuffed, ie top 8), so that's even more incentive for Kraft to be bold and be aggressive.

I'm not saying go sign every free agent, I'm just saying spend at least to what the team would've spent if there had been a cap. That means making a decent effort to re-sign Wilfork, extending Brady, making an effort to sign a guy like Peppers or Dansby, and augmenting the offense with a guy like Bryant/Branch (if cut).

I completely understand the side you present - and Kraft may as well. But inactivity and cautiousness is a business risk as well - the owners who sit on their hands and let free agency pass them by b/c of the CBA uncertainty might find their teams have been hurt come 2011 if there is no lockout (ultimately, I think there will be football). I guess it comes down to how the owners measure the bottom line and how much they prioritize on-field success.

The owners who took the opposite risk and were bold in free agency & in retaining players might find they have a leg up on the rest of the league. Kraft and the Patriots could try to get into this group.

 

[supafly]

I think its a very valid opinion - and certainly one way it plays out, but I really hope not.

Everything is pointing towards this team needing to be aggressive in free agency and really going for it in 2010...

- Draft picks not panning out as well as hoped, or not fast enough
- Whether BB/Kraft want to admit it or not, this run of good fortune may not outlast Brady, each year with a healthy Brady going forward is a year they must be aggressive.
- Falling outside of the top 8 could work towards our advantage. We are likely a top 8 team in reality, we MUST take advantage of the misfortune of being knocked out in the first round, as we have an opportunity other elite teams like the Saints/Colts/Chargers will not have.
- Other teams could be more cautious in free agency (or are handcuffed, ie top 8), so that's even more incentive for Kraft to be bold and be aggressive.

I'm not saying go sign every free agent, I'm just saying spend at least to what the team would've spent if there had been a cap. That means making a decent effort to re-sign Wilfork, extending Brady, making an effort to sign a guy like Peppers or Dansby, and augmenting the offense with a guy like Bryant/Branch (if cut).

I completely understand the side you present - and Kraft may as well. But inactivity and cautiousness is a business risk as well - the owners who sit on their hands and let free agency pass them by b/c of the CBA uncertainty might find their teams have been hurt come 2011 if there is no lockout (ultimately, I think there will be football). I guess it comes down to how the owners measure the bottom line and how much they prioritize on-field success.

The owners who took the opposite risk and were bold in free agency & in retaining players might find they have a leg up on the rest of the league. Kraft and the Patriots could try to get into this group.

All very valid points, and a great argument for why they should be aggressive.

It would be the ultimate chance for us to get right back to the top, and in the beginning I expected us to take full advantage of it. Now I'm not as sure.

It certainly would make a lot of sense to try to correct some past mistakes, players not evolving fast enough--as you said.

In the end, I think they'd just be cutting off their noses to spite their faces--in regards to the work stoppage. I agree w/ you, I think they play. I know we'd all be devestated if they didn't.

 

[emoney_33]

Hey @$$hole What are you trying to say? Where is your "Glorious" ultra intelligent post?

The question was which rumor do you think would possibly happen? At least that's what I got out of it. I'd love a Peppers signing but when you have all the FA's the Patriots have right now and Brady needing an extentsion I just don't see it happening.


Why do we need another ALWAYS HURT WR to add to a depleted roster? Cromartie had one good season the rest were mediocre as the same for Maroney. A trade for Cromartie for Maroney is a wash in my book.

He was agreeing with you...