What does BB have in mind for the defense?

[Kontradiction]

The Hall of Fame has pulled his game plan? I don't see this in anyway as a risky move, reputation-wise or otherwise. You wouldn't toss Elvis out of the Hall of Fame if his space ship landed and he introduced 'slither and hop' as the new music fad would you?

Interesting premise, Michael Lombardi was on NFLTA the other day talking about the DC situation and there was nothing in his report to indicate any 'disappointment' from Belichick - the opposite if anything.

Significant scheme changes, I'd be surprised. I expect the defense to be better. Aggressive? Looking at the pieces in place there's not a lot of evidence to suggest they are morphing into a Pit-style blitzkrieg.

Bill had a ready made Belichick defensive coordinator when Mangini jumped ship, a guy trained under Nick Saban - there was no need to develop and shield a defensive coordinator the the way he had shielded and mentored McDaniels. I was expecting this move as it's time to put the finishing touches on an up and coming DC.

A second factor goes along with his hire of Corwin Brown, this is a very young defense, and other than James Sanders and Ty Warren the leaders expected to carry the fight on the field are guys who could use some serious mentoring - the man whose imprint on this team created the "dynasty" isn't just taking the reins, he's taking the time to shape the next Pepper Johnson/Tedi Bruschi Field General(s).

High expectations? Not so much. Youth is still youth, which is why I expect no significant philosophy shift, let's give the kids a consistent system within which their God-given gifts can bloom. Even if NE re-signs all the defensive UFAs, there is going to be a pool of new kids on the practice field, a scheme shift just makes everyone a novice and puts the young leaders already in the system at the same starting point - BB may tweak things, but he's not making wholesale changes.

I gotta say that I'm pretty happy that you've decided to pick up your posting here and less at Pats Planet. Did mav chase you away?

Anyway, I think we're in for some changes on the defense this season. I don't think it will be more aggessive because, for anyone who cares to look, we were among tops in the league in blitzing percentage this season. The only reason you might not have noticed it is because we weren't actually getting to the quarterback despite sending extra guys. And for everybody that thinks Wilfork will be gone, think again. Wilfork is being franchised. He'll be with us next season. I'm not sure what changes he has in mind, but if he is overseeing the defense, it's most likely because he's implementing something new.

 

[Deus Irae]

I gotta say that I'm pretty happy that you've decided to pick up your posting here and less at Pats Planet. Did mav chase you away?

Anyway, I think we're in for some changes on the defense this season. I don't think it will be more aggessive because, for anyone who cares to look, we were among tops in the league in blitzing percentage this season. The only reason you might not have noticed it is because we weren't actually getting to the quarterback despite sending extra guys. And for everybody that thinks Wilfork will be gone, think again. Wilfork is being franchised. He'll be with us next season. I'm not sure what changes he has in mind, but if he is overseeing the defense, it's most likely because he's implementing something new.

BOR is great, and reading threads with him, AWTE and MD breaking things down is a treat.

 

[JMarr]

I'm VERY intrigued by BB's decision to assume control of the defense for '10. He's putting his reputation on the line as a defensive guru, for one thing. He obviously was not pleased with the job Pees did. So, I'm wondering if we will see noticeable changes in scheme/philosophy. Will the defense be significantly better this coming season? Will it be more aggressive? Or, will it be the same 3-4 contain philosophy only with better execution? I, for one, have high expectations. What say you?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that most people, from laymen fans, to the players and coaches themselves, want to see a more aggressive D that creates more turnovers and is able to gamble more in the passing game. I don't think it is simply lack of execution or lack of talent that has kept our D from getting off the field on 3rd down the last couple of years--scheme has something to do with it. Hopefully the Porter pick was not lost on BB as the type of defining play in a big game that our D needs to be more capable of pulling off. Hopefully the departure of Pees symbolizes a new defensive philosophy more in line with the following quote from Gregg Williams of the Saints:

“Our motto is this: Live on the edge, play on the edge. Look over that edge. See that cliff. When you start to fall off, I’ll be there to grab you. Until you get there, we won’t be any good. You’ve got to be able to make the play. You can’t be afraid to make a mistake in this league, otherwise you’re a robot. I don’t want to coach robots. I want to coach football players. I want to coach guys who are fearless. I’m never going to get on a kid for getting aggressive. You can’t be paralyzed out there.”

Only a couple of things need to happen for us to be every bit as talented (or more so) than the Saints D was this year: Re-signing VW (and hopefully Bodden), any one of current players like Chung, Butler, Wilhite, Burgess or Pryor to step up as an above-average player, and picking up a stud DT and OLB if Burgess or Pryor aren't capable of making the next step. It also would be nice to upgrade Guyton, so hopefully McKenzie can emerge or they can pick someone else up.

I'm not sold on what Banta-Cain brings to the table on the outside and hopefully AD will not be back.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that most people, from laymen fans, to the players and coaches themselves, want to see a more aggressive D that creates more turnovers and is able to gamble more in the passing game. I don't think it is simply lack of execution or lack of talent that has kept our D from getting off the field on 3rd down the last couple of years--scheme has something to do with it. Hopefully the Porter pick was not lost on BB as the type of defining play in a big game that our D needs to be more capable of pulling off. Hopefully the departure of Pees symbolizes a new defensive philosophy more in line with the following quote from Gregg Williams of the Saints:

“Our motto is this: Live on the edge, play on the edge. Look over that edge. See that cliff. When you start to fall off, I’ll be there to grab you. Until you get there, we won’t be any good. You’ve got to be able to make the play. You can’t be afraid to make a mistake in this league, otherwise you’re a robot. I don’t want to coach robots. I want to coach football players. I want to coach guys who are fearless. I’m never going to get on a kid for getting aggressive. You can’t be paralyzed out there.”

Only a couple of things need to happen for us to be every bit as talented (or more so) than the Saints D was this year: Re-signing VW (and hopefully Bodden), any one of current players like Chung, Butler, Wilhite, Burgess or Pryor to step up as an above-average player, and picking up a stud DT and OLB if Burgess or Pryor aren't capable of making the next step. It also would be nice to upgrade Guyton, so hopefully McKenzie can emerge or they can pick someone else up.

I'm not sold on what Banta-Cain brings to the table on the outside and hopefully AD will not be back.

The team was #7 in the NFL last season, for blitzing. The problem wasn't aggression.

 

[bigfandan]

I'm VERY intrigued by BB's decision to assume control of the defense for '10. He's putting his reputation on the line as a defensive guru, for one thing. He obviously was not pleased with the job Pees did. So, I'm wondering if we will see noticeable changes in scheme/philosophy. Will the defense be significantly better this coming season? Will it be more aggressive? Or, will it be the same 3-4 contain philosophy only with better execution? I, for one, have high expectations. What say you?

CHFF did a thorough analysis on BB's reputation as a "defensive guru" and the conclusion was ... it was a bunk; even in SB years, defense was already prone to giving up late game scores. Last two years the problem just seemed to magnified and now more and more low caliber offenses (likes of denver, jets, houston) are winning games by scoring late against us.

He is still a great coach based his resume ... but the defense guru? Not when your team has been giving up 4th quarter leads game, after game, after game.

BB's defenses have been consistent upto 2006/2007. There were a few good years (03-04) the D was very highly ranked with stars like Law and Willie and Ted early, and later with Harrison, Vrabel, Samuel and Vince and Sey coming to prime. But that is before the POER ("point of emphasis"). BB has not built a dominate defense post POE. I guess he wants to have a top 10 defense to go with a top 5 offense in this new era, sort of like Colts do. The 06 draft was very telling (imo) of a shift of resources towards a dynamic offense, with Maroney, Jackson, Thomas and Mills in first 4 rounds. 2 TEs, 1 RB, 1 WR. Again dedicating resources to offense mostly during 07 off-season (adding Moss, Welker, and Stallworth). BTW, I have to say drafting offense talent has not been BB (or Pioli') strong suit.

 

[Kontradiction]

CHFF did a thorough analysis on BB's reputation as a "defensive guru" and the conclusion was ... it was a bunk; even in SB years, defense was already prone to giving up late game scores. Last two years the problem just seemed to magnified and now more and more low caliber offenses (likes of denver, jets, houston) are winning games by scoring late against us.

He is still a great coach based his resume ... but the defense guru? Not when your team has been giving up 4th quarter leads game, after game, after game.

BB's defenses have been consistent upto 2006/2007. There were a few good years (03-04) the D was very highly ranked with stars like Law and Willie and Ted early, and later with Harrison, Vrabel, Samuel and Vince and Sey coming to prime. But that is before the POER ("point of emphasis"). BB has not built a dominate defense post POE. I guess he wants to have a top 10 defense to go with a top 5 offense in this new era, sort of like Colts do. The 06 draft was very telling (imo) of a shift of resources towards a dynamic offense, with Maroney, Jackson, Thomas and Mills in first 4 rounds. 2 TEs, 1 RB, 1 WR. Again dedicating resources to offense mostly during 07 off-season (adding Moss, Welker, and Stallworth). BTW, I have to say drafting offense talent has not been BB (or Pioli') strong suit.

Even Michaelangelo wouldn't be able to do anything with a blank canvas. Those early 2000's defenses were chock full of talent. The talent has not been there ever since.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

16-0
11-5
10-6

Pretty clear reality. It's not a question of "if" the team's in decline. The questions are "why?" and "how do they reverse it?"

Yep different realities - I guess you're still upset Matt Cassel didn't get them to 16-0 again.

 

[crowell33]

Exactly, to my eye he actually outplayed Mayo a bit, though it seems people need their whipping boys.

That and I think he was thinking too hard about trying to get the defense aligned, I suspect Bill's time with the defense is as much for grooming Mayo, Guyton, Meriweather, Chung, Butler, Wilhite, and Wheatley as it is a DC.

I wouldn't see signing Kampman as a 4-3 emphasis, it's a lot like trading for Burgess last season, getting the last mileage out of a top notch veteran.

Burgess I have no issue with, he was learning a new and complex system as well as a new role - and it's not as if he was ever a top run stuffer anyway, that was a known quantity. Should he be re-signed I expect some improvement. If he's not it's not a great loss. Bill can get a bag of donuts for Thomas, give him a new home in the NFC.

I attribute much of that to youth.

Warren came off a couple surgeries to start the season, he was playing catch-up all year, he's still a monster at the point of attack and assuming he's healthy through the offseason I expect him to have a better year.

Wright did an excellent job at collapsing the pocket, I would rate him as better than TBC at creating pressure. Pryor also was quite good at this, I'm looking for a second year leap from him.

Wilfork and Green are UFAs, I want both back, but won't be surprised if one is tagged and traded and the other is picked up by another team.

The infusion of youth into the front seven is well underway, I'd just like to see more of it at OLB.

Bill seems to have emphasized his offense to adapt to the pass happy NFL rulebook, this left aging players on the roster a bit too long and the youth movement of the past couple drafts is still developing - which is why Corwin Brown and Bill Belichick default DC has me thinking about player development.

Wow. I would never have had the guts to say it first, but I agree with you. I think Guyton was better than Mayo this season.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yep different realities - I guess you're still upset Matt Cassel didn't get them to 16-0 again.

That would be a "Why", Box, not an "If".

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

That would be a "Why", Box, not an "If".

Ah, but you expected NE under Brady to go 16-0 before the KC game?

 

[Deus Irae]

Ah, but you expected NE under Brady to go 16-0 before the KC game?

One can expect a decline and still see a bigger decline than expected. I didn't expect 16-0 (nobody should have 'expected' it), but I expected better than 11-5.

My expectations are irrelevant though. What's relevant is the decline.

 

[Synovia]

Do you think Guyton played well enough there to keep the starting spot with Mayo if he does go w/ the 3-4 again?

If we were to base it just on this year, I'd have Guyton higher than Mayo. Honestly.

Mayo just wasn't the same guy he was as a rookie, and hopefully the knee continues to get better.

But yeah, Guyton is a good starter at this point.

 

[Synovia]

Regardless of what happens, I don't want to see Green back.

To my eyes, he simply isn't worth what they're paying him at this point, since he's unable to get any pass rush and is a complete liability against the run. In retrospect, the assumption that Green would be a suitable replacement remains one of the most baffling aspects of the Seymour trade.

I don't think that was assumed at all, by anyone in hte organization, especially condisering that Wright got more playing time than Green from the moment Seymour left.

 

[Synovia]

Guyton has never been a starting quality linebacker. Hopefully, BB will either look for Guyton's replacement season, even if it's a platooning situation (Guyton as a situational player on passing downs), or McKenzie will impress so much that he takes the job and remains healthy.

Dues, is this assesment based on the same data that you carefully explained to me prove Brett Favre is not interception prone? Or are you just making shut up?


Guyton could start on probably a dozen teams in the NFL. Hes not just starting quality at this point, hes good.

 

[JMarr]

Dues, is this assesment based on the same data that you carefully explained to me prove Brett Favre is not interception prone? Or are you just making shut up?


Guyton could start on probably a dozen teams in the NFL. Hes not just starting quality at this point, hes good.

We must have been watching different games (or focusing on different players) this year. Guyton seems to be a hard worker and seems to understand the defense well for a second year guy. Definitely needs a lot of improvement versus the run as a 3-4 ILB in my opinion.

Edit: and for the millionth time I'm going to say that he seems much better suited for the outside in the 3-4.

 

[Synovia]

We must have been watching different games (or focusing on different players) this year. Guyton seems to be a hard worker and seems to understand the defense well for a second year guy. Definitely needs a lot of improvement versus the run as a 3-4 ILB in my opinion.

Edit: and for the millionth time I'm going to say that he seems much better suited for the outside in the 3-4.

Guyton isn't perfect against the run, but hes fantastic in coverage. In today's NFL, thats much more important.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Guyton isn't perfect against the run, but hes fantastic in coverage. In today's NFL, thats much more important.

I'm having a hard time remembering, but who ended up covering Dallas Clark most of the time against Indy? Was it McGowan, Guyton, or Mayo?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I'm having a hard time remembering, but who ended up covering Dallas Clark most of the time against Indy? Was it McGowan, Guyton, or Mayo?

So to be fair in our assessment we'll measure a Linebacker's coverage skill against a Safeties?

 

[jczxohn1]

The Patriots substitute a lot and play a chess game, especially on third down. This hasn't worked out so well as their 3rd down efficiency on defense has been consistently poor. I can see running guys on and off the field to keep them fresh, but when you collect a group of specialists and 2-down players it makes your defense easier to read based on who is on the field. It also exposes match-ups that the opponent quickly exploits by isolating an inferior player and picking up an easy first down. It would be nice if the Patriots could have more 3-down players and have flexibility without massive substitutions.

Too true. Esp. QB's like Peyton who go to a hurry-up to prevent substitutions. The only defense against it is a better pass rush. Willie McG made this system work.

 

[JackBauer]

I don't think that was assumed at all, by anyone in hte organization, especially condisering that Wright got more playing time than Green from the moment Seymour left.

That's not a very convincing defense, considering that Wright, while better than Green, is not a suitable replacement for Seymour. And neither is a platoon of Wright/Green.