Will the Patriots trade LB Thomas?

[Joker]

that's what I said on my wedding night...

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

I would take a lesser pick and ship him off to the Lions, Bucs or Rams.

Anywhere where has no chance to get a ring.

:ditto:

I don't want him going to the Jets. So NO to releasing him. Trade him to whomever for whatever. How about trading him to the Raiders, and getting our 5th rounder back? Then he can sit around the locker room b*tching about the Pats with his new best friend Mr. Seymour:bricks:

 

[chevss454]

What's that quote, " "If a player has talent and doesn't succeed, that means that they either don't want to be successful or I have failed as a coach."?

What the hell happened here?

This is the crux of the matter. Thomas has talent but do any of us really think he was used properly as a pass rusher? If BB decides to go towards the LeBeau style of 3-4, Thomas suddenly becomes as valuable to the Pats as, say, signing a Sergio Kindle or a Jerry Hughes type.

There would be fences to be mended for sure, but keeping Thomas would save the first round pick or a 2nd round pick in the draft on one of those guys to replace him. Many here are proposing trading Thomas for a 4th when you could keep him and "save" a top pick for an additional impact player.

Something to consider.

 

[bresna]

I think we should trade Thomas to the Lions for their 7th round pick, just to give him a middle finger final salute.

 

[alamo]

I would think if Thomas is released the Jets could release Gholston and then pick up thomas.. It would be the smart move.. (if the contracts match up)

Again, the Final Eight Plan does not allow the JEST to do this. As a final four team, they can only sign one UFA for each one they lose to another team. Players they cut do not qualify. More importantly, what matters is not what they were being paid, but rather what they get in the new deal.

In any case, Gholston is subject to waivers, so they don't get to sign a replacement UFA if they cut him.

You are right about Gholston -- if they cut him then they don't get to sign a Final Eight player.

BUT... if we cut Thomas, all teams including Final Eight teams would be clear to sign him. Players who gain free agency by being cut aren't subject to the UFA limitations, because they have gone through the waiver system. (Even if they have 4 years in the league and thus don't go on waivers, they have still gone through the waiver system).

So the Jets could sign Thomas if we cut him.

 

[Patjew]

This is the crux of the matter. Thomas has talent but do any of us really think he was used properly as a pass rusher? If BB decides to go towards the LeBeau style of 3-4, Thomas suddenly becomes as valuable to the Pats as, say, signing a Sergio Kindle or a Jerry Hughes type.

There would be fences to be mended for sure, but keeping Thomas would save the first round pick or a 2nd round pick in the draft on one of those guys to replace him. Many here are proposing trading Thomas for a 4th when you could keep him and "save" a top pick for an additional impact player.

Something to consider.

I may be the only one here that hopes that those fences do get mended.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Not if they get rid of a player, but rather if one of their UFAs signs a bigger contract.

Also, they (along with the other Final Eight teams) can't trade for a player they wouldn't be able to sign as a UFA.

[I'm still not sure if they can sign players who are cut by their old teams; as I've said before, the wording is opaque enough that it could go either way. I'll gladly admit I'm wrong when I hear that one of the Final Eight teams signs a cut player they wouldn't normally be able to sign.]

Ah ok...That makes sense.

 

[RobertWeathers]

What's that quote, " "If a player has talent and doesn't succeed, that means that they either don't want to be successful or I have failed as a coach."?

What the hell happened here?

You won't find that quote anywhere written. Back in 2002, I attended a manager's seminar for the company I was with at the time and BB was the keynote speaker. Anyway he went on about managing and motivating people, maximizing talent, hiring team players, bla bla. The sentence that I use as my signature has stuck with me.

As you know, BB's m/o has been picking players that want to always improve. When acquiring talent, that player MUST view their careers and being successful at their jobs the most important thing in their lives. That talent could be players, coaches, etc.- everyone in the organization. It's a great philosophy IMO. The problem is finding people who agree will fall in line. It's not easy finding those people.

IMO I think BB has stayed true to the words he spoke back in 2002. The problem is that he hasn't replenished the talent level as it's walked out the door. I'm only aware of AD being the one who seems to not have been in complete compliance with BBs organizational philosophy.

 

[chevss454]

You are right about Gholston -- if they cut him then they don't get to sign a Final Eight player.

BUT... if we cut Thomas, all teams including Final Eight teams would be clear to sign him. Players who gain free agency by being cut aren't subject to the UFA limitations, because they have gone through the waiver system. (Even if they have 4 years in the league and thus don't go on waivers, they have still gone through the waiver system).

So the Jets could sign Thomas if we cut him.

I'm not so sure this is right. Final Eight teams may be restricted from signing players cut by other teams just as they are from signing UFA's. See post #16 of this thread. Miguel may know.

 

[Patjew]

So that's where I saw it.

You won't find that quote anywhere written. Back in 2002, I attended a manager's seminar for the company I was with at the time and BB was the keynote speaker. Anyway he went on about managing and motivating people, maximizing talent, hiring team players, bla bla. The sentence that I use as my signature has stuck with me.

As you know, BB's m/o has been picking players that want to always improve. When acquiring talent, that player MUST view their careers and being successful at their jobs the most important thing in their lives. That talent could be players, coaches, etc.- everyone in the organization. It's a great philosophy IMO. The problem is finding people who agree will fall in line. It's not easy finding those people.

IMO I think BB has stayed true to the words he spoke back in 2002. The problem is that he hasn't replenished the talent level as it's walked out the door. I'm only aware of AD being the one who seems to not have been in complete compliance with BBs organizational philosophy.

 

[Kontradiction]

The Jets can't sign him if hes cut because of the "final eight" rule correct? I bet they would trade for him though.

They can sign him because he's still under contract. Their ability to sign unrestricted free agents is inhibited, I believe.

 

[alamo]

I'm not so sure this is right. Final Eight teams may be restricted from signing players cut by other teams just as they are from signing UFA's. See post #16 of this thread. Miguel may know.

In post 16 ctpatsfan says "I am still not sure... it could go either way" which isn't a particularly definitive statement And Miguel is not the only one who knows, you know.

I *am* sure. And the "Uncapped year FAQ" by pats1, stickied at the top of the forum, agrees with me.

 

[chevss454]

They can sign him because he's still under contract. Their ability to sign unrestricted free agents is inhibited, I believe.

What is this “Final Eight?” rule?
For the final four teams alive in the 2009-10 NFL playoffs, the following restrictions are in place for 2010 free agency:

-These teams may sign any player who was released by their former team
-These teams may re-sign any player who was under contract with that team at the end of the season
-These teams may ONLY sign one unrestricted free agent (from another team) for every one of their own unrestricted free agents who signs with another team. Further, that new player cannot have a first-year salary (excluding signing bonus proration) of any more than what the old player signed with his new team. Further, to prevent back-loading that new deal, the salary of the new player (including roster bonus, option bonus, LTBEs, and excluding signing bonus proration) cannot have an annual increase of more than 30%. Further, the newly signed player cannot renegotiate an increase until 12 months after he is signed. This is different from the normal rule, which allows a first renegotiation within 12 months, but not a second for another 12 months.
-These teams may not trade for any player who they would not otherwise be able to sign as an unrestricted free agent

 

[Sicilian]

I may be the only one here that hopes that those fences do get mended.

I think it's highly unlikely, but I would be in agreement with you. In an uncapped year, why not keep him at least until after the draft/free agenct, so you can see who you were able to pick up and how they'll pan out through mini-camps, etc. If you feel you have adequate replacements, you deal him off or cut him and feel none the worse for wear.

If you can't manage to sign your target free agents, the guys you like in the draft are gone by your pick, someone gets hurt or someone just doesn't pick up the system like you thought they would, you have someone there who, while not the happiest camper, is at least a body in case of disaster.

I think it's a decent enough risk to take, given how many openings we have on defense IMO.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think it's highly unlikely, but I would be in agreement with you. In an uncapped year, why not keep him at least until after the draft/free agenct, so you can see who you were able to pick up and how they'll pan out through mini-camps, etc. If you feel you have adequate replacements, you deal him off or cut him and feel none the worse for wear.

If you can't manage to sign your target free agents, the guys you like in the draft are gone by your pick, someone gets hurt or someone just doesn't pick up the system like you thought they would, you have someone there who, while not the happiest camper, is at least a body in case of disaster.

I think it's a decent enough risk to take, given how many openings we have on defense IMO.

If BB thinks that AD can be productive in this SYSTEM, he will make the effort to keep him. BB has used the the phase, "we've chosen to continue to work with the player", is operative here.

When I say system, I mean everything. Teamwork, accountability, performance, etc. Ty Law had some terrible things to say after the 03 season but he didn't ever squawk about how he was used. Just how he was paid.

 

[Sicilian]

If BB thinks that AD can be productive in this SYSTEM, he will make the effort to keep him. BB has used the the phase, "we've chosen to continue to work with the player", is operative here.

When I say system, I mean everything. Teamwork, accountability, performance, etc. Ty Law had some terrible things to say after the 03 season but he didn't ever squawk about how he was used. Just how he was paid.

I think you're right. There's no question he can be productive in this system on the field (2007 was a decent year even if not up to our expectations, and he was playing great before getting hurt in 2008), but the question is, is he WILLING to be productive in the capacity we want him to be?

 

[WelshPat]

To the posters that want Thomas shipped to a loser just for him not to get a ring, he was part of the 2000 Ravens, he already has one.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

I think you're right. There's no question he can be productive in this system on the field (2007 was a decent year even if not up to our expectations, and he was playing great before getting hurt in 2008), but the question is, is he WILLING to be productive in the capacity we want him to be?

and the answer is NO. AD does not want to be the coverage LB, and given his skills that attracted BB to him, I don't blame AD for wanting to be the guy who felt his best skills are suited to bring pressure.

This is precisely why Peppers will have no desire to be a NEP. Will he accept an AD type role as LB ? and he does not want to play DE. In NE system he would be absolutely useless and overpaid DE since we play contain

 

[Brady_Moss]

trade Thomas to the dophins for Porter

sign Jason Taylor, TBC, Peppers, Dansby, and Merriman (sign or trade)

our front seven would be a defense version of the 2007 offense

Jason Taylor and BB could help Peppers with his motor and remember, Taylor and Peppers are 1st and 3rd in the league for sacks since 2001...those are the veterans that we definitly need this year. TBC could be this years veteran situational pass rusher, or even Jason Taylor

I believe that these moves would provide a lot a leadership on our squad for our young defence. Taylor already has the team's respect and i think that Merriman (ala Porter) has a very high motor and would command respect and leadership from the young linebackers (he already has a chip on his shoulder from his injury)

If our offseason panned out like this, before the draft, then we would finally have that nasty/intimadating defense that we all miss from the '03 & '04 championship seasons.

our secondary is already in play, but with killer pass rushers like these, it would only make our secondary turn into a superstar unit!!!

 

[DonBlackmon55]

trade Thomas to the dophins for Porter

sign Jason Taylor, TBC, Peppers, Dansby, and Merriman (sign or trade)

our front seven would be a defense version of the 2007 offense

Jason Taylor and BB could help Peppers with his motor and remember, Taylor and Peppers are 1st and 3rd in the league for sacks since 2001...those are the veterans that we definitly need this year. TBC could be this years veteran situational pass rusher, or even Jason Taylor

I believe that these moves would provide a lot a leadership on our squad for our young defence. Taylor already has the team's respect and i think that Merriman (ala Porter) has a very high motor and would command respect and leadership from the young linebackers (he already has a chip on his shoulder from his injury)

If our offseason panned out like this, before the draft, then we would finally have that nasty/intimadating defense that we all miss from the '03 & '04 championship seasons.

our secondary is already in play, but with killer pass rushers like these, it would only make our secondary turn into a superstar unit!!!

Good ideas....and then we still have plenty of $$ to extend Brady, sign Wilfork, Bodden, Mankins. Heck we may still have enough $$ left to trade a #2 to AZ for Anquan and sign him up to a long term deal.

Then we can trade up in the top ten of the draft and select Rolando McLain(since we still have mucho $$ left to sign a Top 10 pick) and move Mayo to OLB.


SB 45 is ours then !:bricks: