January 30, 2010 - Offseason and mock

[cstjohn17]

Everything below assumes no CBA

Veterans
DT - Wilfork - franchise or reach deal
G- Mankins - high RFA
K- Ghost - High RFA
OLB/DE - Sign either TBC or Jason Taylor
Punter - sign Jon Ryan Seattle
CB - hope they sign Bodden but think the Butler, Whilhite era has begun
RB - sign Faulk

Draft
Trade 22 for picks 37, 69
37 - NT, Cody - provides great depth on the D Line, Wilfork can kick outside to end in the 3-4
42 - OLB/DE - Hardy - trainee to become new Vrabel
47 - C/G - Pouncey, Florida
53 - WR - Arrelious Benn
69 - TE - Colin Peek
118 RB - Blount, Oregon - becomes the FB / power back

Team looks something like this

QB (2) - Brady and whoever
RB/FB (5)- Maroney, Taylor, Morris, Blount, Faulk
WR (5) - Moss, Edelman, Benn, Tate, Aiken
T - (4) Light, Vollmer, Kaczur, LeVoir
G\C (5)- Mankins, Koppen, Pouncey, Connolly, Wendell
TE - (2) Baker, Peek
23 Offense

DT (5) - Wilfork, Warren, Wright, Cody, Pryor
OLB/DE (5) - Taylor/TBC, Hardy, Thomas (too versatile to cut), Crable, Ninkovich
ILB (4) - Mayo, Guyton, McKenzie, Alexander
S (4) - Merriweather, Sanders, Chung, McGowan
CB (5) - Bodden, Butler, Whilite, Springs, Wheately
23 Defense
P - Ryan
K - Ghost
LS - Ingram

49 players, close enough, you pick the final 4

 

[alvinnf]

Everything below assumes no CBA

Veterans
DT - Wilfork - franchise or reach deal
G- Mankins - high RFA
K- Ghost - High RFA
OLB/DE - Sign either TBC or Jason Taylor
Punter - sign Jon Ryan Seattle
CB - hope they sign Bodden but think the Butler, Whilhite era has begun
RB - sign Faulk

Draft
Trade 22 for picks 37, 69
37 - NT, Cody - provides great depth on the D Line, Wilfork can kick outside to end in the 3-4
42 - OLB/DE - Hardy - trainee to become new Vrabel
47 - C/G - Pouncey, Florida
53 - WR - Arrelious Benn
69 - TE - Colin Peek
118 RB - Blount, Oregon - becomes the FB / power back

Team looks something like this

QB (2) - Brady and whoever
RB/FB (5)- Maroney, Taylor, Morris, Blount, Faulk
WR (5) - Moss, Edelman, Benn, Tate, Aiken
T - (4) Light, Vollmer, Kaczur, LeVoir
G\C (5)- Mankins, Koppen, Pouncey, Connolly, Wendell
TE - (2) Baker, Peek
23 Offense

DT (5) - Wilfork, Warren, Wright, Cody, Pryor
OLB/DE (5) - Taylor/TBC, Hardy, Thomas (too versatile to cut), Crable, Ninkovich
ILB (4) - Mayo, Guyton, McKenzie, Alexander
S (4) - Merriweather, Sanders, Chung, McGowan
CB (5) - Bodden, Butler, Whilite, Springs, Wheately
23 Defense
P - Ryan
K - Ghost
LS - Ingram

49 players, close enough, you pick the final 4

We need pass rush and a WR, and of course other things. Those are the two big areas.
For our improved pass rush we are relying on a 30 something Taylor and Hardy who disappears more than the amazing Kreskin.
On the offensive side of the ball. We have Tate who's knee is not quite right. Welker whom we'll be lucky to see week 7 off PUP, but I doubt it. Which ones Sam Aiken? A rookie with less than spectacular numbers from a run first offense in Benn. Moss and Edelman.
Out of all your picks the only one I like is Peek. He better be really good cuz we got trouble.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Everything below assumes no CBA

Veterans
DT - Wilfork - franchise or reach deal
G- Mankins - high RFA
K- Ghost - High RFA
OLB/DE - Sign either TBC or Jason Taylor
Punter - sign Jon Ryan Seattle
CB - hope they sign Bodden but think the Butler, Whilhite era has begun
RB - sign Faulk

Draft
Trade 22 for picks 37, 69
37 - NT, Cody - provides great depth on the D Line, Wilfork can kick outside to end in the 3-4
42 - OLB/DE - Hardy - trainee to become new Vrabel
47 - C/G - Pouncey, Florida
53 - WR - Arrelious Benn
69 - TE - Colin Peek
118 RB - Blount, Oregon - becomes the FB / power back

Team looks something like this

QB (2) - Brady and whoever
RB/FB (5)- Maroney, Taylor, Morris, Blount, Faulk
WR (5) - Moss, Edelman, Benn, Tate, Aiken
T - (4) Light, Vollmer, Kaczur, LeVoir
G\C (5)- Mankins, Koppen, Pouncey, Connolly, Wendell
TE - (2) Baker, Peek
23 Offense

DT (5) - Wilfork, Warren, Wright, Cody, Pryor
OLB/DE (5) - Taylor/TBC, Hardy, Thomas (too versatile to cut), Crable, Ninkovich
ILB (4) - Mayo, Guyton, McKenzie, Alexander
S (4) - Merriweather, Sanders, Chung, McGowan
CB (5) - Bodden, Butler, Whilite, Springs, Wheately
23 Defense
P - Ryan
K - Ghost
LS - Ingram

49 players, close enough, you pick the final 4

I personally like that draft except for Cody since you have us re-signing Wilfork and we still have Brace. I like Pouncey might have to be taken at 37 if he's still around b/c he's projected as a borderline first/early 2nd rounder I believe. I'm a big fan of Hardy and Benn. Might as well take the chance on Blount.

 

[mayoclinic]

Top of the 3rd round seems awfully high for Colin Peek. And I'd like to see more done with the LB position, both inside and out.

 

[ayjackson]

right now, i'm thinking......

Re-sign: Wilfork, Mankins, Bodden, Gost, TBC, Burgess
Sign: Marcus Spears, depth TE, Deion Branch
Cut/trade: Thomas

Draft:

1a. Jason Paul-Pierre, OLB
2a. Rejus Benn, WR
2b. Jon Asamoah, OG
2c. Austen Lane, OLB
4a. Erik Decker, WR
5a. TBD TE
6a. TBD
7a. TBD
7b. TBD
7c. TBD
7d. TBD


(I have absolutely no faith that we would draft one, let alone two, top OLB prospects, but there you go, a man will dream.)

 

[mayoclinic]

right now, i'm thinking......

Re-sign: Wilfork, Mankins, Bodden, Gost, TBC, Burgess
Sign: Marcus Spears, depth TE, Deion Branch
Cut/trade: Thomas

Draft:

1a. Jason Paul-Pierre, OLB
2a. Rejus Benn, WR
2b. Jon Asamoah, OG
2c. Austen Lane, OLB
4a. Erik Decker, WR
5a. TBD TE
6a. TBD
7a. TBD
7b. TBD
7c. TBD
7d. TBD


(I have absolutely no faith that we would draft one, let alone two, top OLB prospects, but there you go, a man will dream.)

Some thoughts:

1. Spears would be a fine addition, but he'll likely be an RFA, and I can't see Dallas letting him go without some compensation.

2. I doubt Asamoah is a 2nd round pick right now. He didn't stand out at the Senior Bowl for his brief appearance, he's coming off of a shoulder injury, and he was probably a 3rd round pick to begin with.

3. That's 3 WRs you have: Deion Branch in FA, Rejus Benn in the 2nd round, and Eric Decker in the 4th. That seems like a lot to me.

4. I would personally like to see something done to address the SILB position.

 

[BradyMossWelker]

Everything below assumes no CBA

Veterans
DT - Wilfork - franchise or reach deal
G- Mankins - high RFA
K- Ghost - High RFA
OLB/DE - Sign either TBC or Jason Taylor
Punter - sign Jon Ryan Seattle
CB - hope they sign Bodden but think the Butler, Whilhite era has begun
RB - sign Faulk

Draft
Trade 22 for picks 37, 69
37 - NT, Cody - provides great depth on the D Line, Wilfork can kick outside to end in the 3-4
42 - OLB/DE - Hardy - trainee to become new Vrabel
47 - C/G - Pouncey, Florida
53 - WR - Arrelious Benn
69 - TE - Colin Peek
118 RB - Blount, Oregon - becomes the FB / power back

Team looks something like this

QB (2) - Brady and whoever
RB/FB (5)- Maroney, Taylor, Morris, Blount, Faulk
WR (5) - Moss, Edelman, Benn, Tate, Aiken
T - (4) Light, Vollmer, Kaczur, LeVoir
G\C (5)- Mankins, Koppen, Pouncey, Connolly, Wendell
TE - (2) Baker, Peek
23 Offense

DT (5) - Wilfork, Warren, Wright, Cody, Pryor
OLB/DE (5) - Taylor/TBC, Hardy, Thomas (too versatile to cut), Crable, Ninkovich
ILB (4) - Mayo, Guyton, McKenzie, Alexander
S (4) - Merriweather, Sanders, Chung, McGowan
CB (5) - Bodden, Butler, Whilite, Springs, Wheately
23 Defense
P - Ryan
K - Ghost
LS - Ingram

49 players, close enough, you pick the final 4

Wow. This Offseason is absolutely terrible. Let me think, this would help our team in...NOTHING.

That draft is absolutely terrible, Cody is good but not a Must, Hardy won't fit in NE, taking Puncey with a 2nd round is just laughable, because I would only draft a Center like in the fourth round.
Your good FA are non-existant, I only like Jason Taylor, wich by the way is the only FA without beeing a Punter.
God, if this is our offseason, we might just give the division to the Jets

 

[mayoclinic]

Wow. This Offseason is absolutely terrible. Let me think, this would help our team in...NOTHING.

That draft is absolutely terrible, Cody is good but not a Must, Hardy won't fit in NE, taking Puncey with a 2nd round is just laughable, because I would only draft a Center like in the fourth round.
Your good FA are non-existant, I only like Jason Taylor, wich by the way is the only FA without beeing a Punter.
God, if this is our offseason, we might just give the division to the Jets

That's a little harsh, and I see no reason to ridicule or deride anyone who makes a good faith effort. But I personally agree with you that this offseason plan fails to address a number of important needs.

 

[cstjohn17]

Wow. This Offseason is absolutely terrible. Let me think, this would help our team in...NOTHING.

That draft is absolutely terrible, Cody is good but not a Must, Hardy won't fit in NE, taking Puncey with a 2nd round is just laughable, because I would only draft a Center like in the fourth round.
Your good FA are non-existant, I only like Jason Taylor, wich by the way is the only FA without beeing a Punter.
God, if this is our offseason, we might just give the division to the Jets

So do you like it or not? Couldn't really tell.

No problemo, BMW this was an attempt at what I think they will do, not what I want them to do. There will be 15 more versions of this before the season begins.

 

[mgteich]

mayo,

You seem to be taking the same position, but are being nicer about it.

Any offseason HOPE at this time should not fail to meet basic needs.

After all, all the assumptions we make now will be difficult to achieve, causing more needs or causing us not to fulfill a need as fully as we would hope. For example, we just keep presuming the signing Bodden or an equivalent corner (as we should at this point).

I think that we should at least START with a plan that COULD bring in us into reasonable Super Bowl contention. This would necessitate that such a plan at least replace any lost free agents and injured players and improve any gross weaknesses in the 2009 team.

I believe that the OP fails to meet basic needs.

That's a little harsh, and I see no reason to ridicule or deride anyone who makes a good faith effort. But I personally agree with you that this offseason plan fails to address a number of important needs.

 

[carolinatony]

I think these would be good picks for us

1 C.J. Spiller, RB, Clemson
2A Jerry Hughes OLB TCU
2B DE Austen Lane Murray/Carlos Dunlap Florida
2C Ducasse, Vladimir OG Mass

 

[mayoclinic]

mayo,

You seem to be taking the same position, but are being nicer about it.

Any offseason HOPE at this time should not fail to meet basic needs.

After all, all the assumptions we make now will be difficult to achieve, causing more needs or causing us not to fulfill a need as fully as we would hope. For example, we just keep presuming the signing Bodden or an equivalent corner (as we should at this point).

I think that we should at least START with a plan that COULD bring in us into reasonable Super Bowl contention. This would necessitate that such a plan at least replace any lost free agents and injured players and improve any gross weaknesses in the 2009 team.

I believe that the OP fails to meet basic needs.

I agree.

I personally find that it helps to consider what the team needs are that would need to be addressed in a way to bring us back to elite status, and then try to find ways to address them, with contingency plans. For example, there is a need at NT unless Wilfork stays, with possible ways to address that need in FA or the draft. There is a need at CB if Bodden leaves, with possible ways to fill that in FA or the draft. There is a need at RG and a presumption that Neal with retire, with a plan to address it by moving Kaczur to RG or via the draft. There is a need for more defensive pressure up front. Etc.

Some plans might be extravagant (get Peppers or Dansby in FA), some difficult to achieve (trade up for McClain), some not completely adequate. But even if the plan to address the need may be flawed, if the needs are assessed then I think any plan that reasonably tries to address as many holes as possible in a feasible way is worth considering and can be instructive.

The mock offseason in the OP may be the bleak reality that we end up with, but it's not very appealing as a plan to address needs. For example, at CB, the OP states "hope they sign Bodden but think the Butler, Whilhite era has begun". That may be where we end up, but I really hope not. I'd like to come up with some alternatives if we can't re-sign Bodden - who we should try to sign in FA, or perhaps make CB a higher priority in the draft, with some possible candidates that the poster feels would fill that need. Similarly, the pass rush is a major area of need that most feel needs to be upgraded. The OP essentially replaces Burgess with a very questionable rookie in Hardy and keeps things the same, with the possible exception of 36 year old Jason Taylor replacing TBC. I don't personally consider that a comprehensive plan for addressing the need, though it could very well be the harsh reality of what ends up transpiring.

So I agree with you that "I think that we should at least START with a plan that COULD bring in us into reasonable Super Bowl contention. This would necessitate that such a plan at least replace any lost free agents and injured players and improve any gross weaknesses in the 2009 team." And like you "I believe that the OP fails to meet basic needs."

But I also believe that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. People have been very tolerant and even kind with some of my flights of fancy, and while I have my own (sometimes strong) opinions and preferences, I try not to assume that my own views and choices are inherently superior to someone else's. I don't know if it was ever the OP's intent to address the kind of comprehensive plan that you and I have in mind, or simply present a pessimistic (some might say realistic) view of where we might very well end up. So my response was to simply point out areas where basic needs weren't addressed, as opposed to making derogatory comments at a veteran poster who made a good faith effort to present his views.

 

[ayjackson]

Some thoughts:

1. Spears would be a fine addition, but he'll likely be an RFA, and I can't see Dallas letting him go without some compensation.

2. I doubt Asamoah is a 2nd round pick right now. He didn't stand out at the Senior Bowl for his brief appearance, he's coming off of a shoulder injury, and he was probably a 3rd round pick to begin with.

3. That's 3 WRs you have: Deion Branch in FA, Rejus Benn in the 2nd round, and Eric Decker in the 4th. That seems like a lot to me.

4. I would personally like to see something done to address the SILB position.

I was thinking that Spears was UFA this year, but I'll check on that. I think it's still early to say that a particular player is a third rounder and not a second rounder, but insert your favourite second round guard prospect here. As for WR, I'm only certain Edelman will be around come September, so I think whether or not Moss is around, we'll be adding at least three WR's to the mix this offseason. I too would like to address SILB, but wasn't sure how to do it.

 

[cstjohn17]

I agree.

I personally find that it helps to consider what the team needs are that would need to be addressed in a way to bring us back to elite status, and then try to find ways to address them, with contingency plans. For example, there is a need at NT unless Wilfork stays, with possible ways to address that need in FA or the draft. There is a need at CB if Bodden leaves, with possible ways to fill that in FA or the draft. There is a need at RG and a presumption that Neal with retire, with a plan to address it by moving Kaczur to RG or via the draft. There is a need for more defensive pressure up front. Etc.

Some plans might be extravagant (get Peppers or Dansby in FA), some difficult to achieve (trade up for McClain), some not completely adequate. But even if the plan to address the need may be flawed, if the needs are assessed then I think any plan that reasonably tries to address as many holes as possible in a feasible way is worth considering and can be instructive.

The mock offseason in the OP may be the bleak reality that we end up with, but it's not very appealing as a plan to address needs. For example, at CB, the OP states "hope they sign Bodden but think the Butler, Whilhite era has begun". That may be where we end up, but I really hope not. I'd like to come up with some alternatives if we can't re-sign Bodden - who we should try to sign in FA, or perhaps make CB a higher priority in the draft, with some possible candidates that the poster feels would fill that need. Similarly, the pass rush is a major area of need that most feel needs to be upgraded. The OP essentially replaces Burgess with a very questionable rookie in Hardy and keeps things the same, with the possible exception of 36 year old Jason Taylor replacing TBC. I don't personally consider that a comprehensive plan for addressing the need, though it could very well be the harsh reality of what ends up transpiring.

So I agree with you that "I think that we should at least START with a plan that COULD bring in us into reasonable Super Bowl contention. This would necessitate that such a plan at least replace any lost free agents and injured players and improve any gross weaknesses in the 2009 team." And like you "I believe that the OP fails to meet basic needs."

But I also believe that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. People have been very tolerant and even kind with some of my flights of fancy, and while I have my own (sometimes strong) opinions and preferences, I try not to assume that my own views and choices are inherently superior to someone else's. I don't know if it was ever the OP's intent to address the kind of comprehensive plan that you and I have in mind, or simply present a pessimistic (some might say realistic) view of where we might very well end up. So my response was to simply point out areas where basic needs weren't addressed, as opposed to making derogatory comments at a veteran poster who made a good faith effort to present his views.

No need to get fancy, if it sucks, it sucks.

Next time out I will go multiple trades and a triple lutz (plus Peppers, McClain, Dansby, Marshall and Adam Seyward).

The fact is there is no silver bullet and the Pats have seldom been major players in free agency. Prepare to be under whelmed. Hopefully I am wrong.

The team is not as bad as their last game but not as good as the league's elite. They are somewhere in the middle, hopefully they start to nudge things toward the top. It would be pretty sweet to get Brady one more ring (especially if the Colts lose next Sunday).

 

[carolinatony]

The fact is there is no silver bullet and the Pats have seldom been major players in free agency. Prepare to be under whelmed. Hopefully I am wrong.



I have not said this but I have to admit i agree with you on this. I believe we may trade back a few times this draft and not pickup what we need this offseason.
As a Pats fan; I expect more from the front office but it appears $$ may be more important than Quality players.
I hope I am wrong as well but we'll all know by April.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Were F*cked if it goes down like this.

 

[mayoclinic]

No need to get fancy, if it sucks, it sucks.

Next time out I will go multiple trades and a triple lutz (plus Peppers, McClain, Dansby, Marshall and Adam Seyward).

Seward alone should be enough to make us competitive.

The fact is there is no silver bullet and the Pats have seldom been major players in free agency. Prepare to be under whelmed. Hopefully I am wrong.

That's why I said your offseason may be closer to what we end up with than mine. Mine is more focused on aggresively addressing what I see as needs, not predicting what the FO may do or not do.

The team is not as bad as their last game but not as good as the league's elite. They are somewhere in the middle, hopefully they start to nudge things toward the top. It would be pretty sweet to get Brady one more ring (especially if the Colts lose next Sunday).

I still see no reason why we can't be extremely competitive for more than one, but it will take a more aggressive offseason than the one you've painted to get us there. We have some major holes that need addressing, and fast.

 

[carolinatony]

I still see no reason why we can't be extremely competitive for more than one, but it will take a more aggressive offseason than the one you've painted to get us there. We have some major holes that need addressing, and fast.

You are right that we need to be more aggressive.
I see one major flaw this last season I never seen before from a BB team and that is they are SOFT on both sides of the LOS.

Lack of heart and effort and big plays seems to be missing as well from this team. We need a new Leader on defense.

 

[mayoclinic]

You are right that we need to be more aggressive.
I see one major flaw this last season I never seen before from a BB team and that is they are SOFT on both sides of the LOS.

Lack of heart and effort and big plays seems to be missing as well from this team. We need a new Leader on defense.

I agree with you regarding several points:

1. We lacked toughness on both sides of the ball in 2009.
2. We lacked playmaking on both sides of the ball in 2009.
3. We lacked leadership on defense in 2009.

Those elements were a major part of my offseason needs assessment. I've been touting CJ Spiller for example, but earlier this season I was much more in favor of Jonathan Dwyer than Spiller. But right now I think that an offensive playmaker like Spiller could transform our offense, whereas a bruiser like Dwyer would just add to it. Similarly, I think that a guy like Rolando McClain or Karlos Dansby could provide a stable foundation in the middle of our defense and a level of leadership that could be transformative to our overall level of defense.

The pieces are there on both sides of the ball, but we need "transformational" players who's impact will be greater than just what role they fill on the field. Look at how Darren Sharper transformed New Orleans' defense this season. And we need to get tougher, more physical, and more aggressive on both sides of the ball.

 

[Hok]

The fact is there is no silver bullet and the Pats have seldom been major players in free agency. Prepare to be under whelmed. Hopefully I am wrong.

I would disagree with part of that - the Pats have been major players in free agency in the past, namely following 2002 (Colvin, Harrison, Poole) and 2006 (Thomas, Welker, Stallworth).

What's more, when looking at the above information, it becomes clear that the Pats tend to be more willing to spend money on FAs following a disastrous end to the previous year. In 2002, we missed the playoffs after winning the SB, and looked bad in doing so. In 2006, we had a terrible WR corp and LBs who couldn't cover, and it cost us a trip to the SB. In both cases, big changes needed to be made, and they were, despite the cost.

We all saw what happened in 2009, and BB and and the FO are well aware of our problems. The team has a lot of money to spend and no cap (or final 8 restrictions) to restrain them. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see us make a splash in free agency.

You could well be right in that we will be disappointed by how the team looks come September, but the Pats have spent in the past when it was needed, and hopefully they will again.