Do you think we trade some players for picks?

[DW Toys]

Last year, Seymour went. It was a good trade 2011 Draft trade but IMO it cost us at least one game in the season that he could have made a play or two. Pick whatever loss you want except maybe the Saints game.

This year I see a few players(I admit I have never been a fan of a one or two of these guys) but in the real world do you think they bring us some choices and where? Some might say no one these are required roster members, but I think the Team does not get any worse with them gone and perhaps we stock some answers at many needed positions.

1) Matt Light

2) Laurence Maroney

3) Vince Wilfork (I say no but then there is sign and trade)

4) James Sanders (we have three others and he is the least talented)

5) Nick Kcazur (Either he or Light)

6) AD!!!!

7) Ron Brace (We paid a second rounder but I don't see him playing in 2010 if Wilfork is resigned)

8) Dan Koppen


IMO We need at the least 4 stellar FAs to go with say three of our eight 2010 picks now, that will work out.

DW Toys

 

[mayoclinic]

Last year, Seymour went. It was a good trade 2011 Draft trade but IMO it cost us at least one game in the season that he could have made a play or two. Pick whatever loss you want except maybe the Saints game.

This year I see a few players(I admit I have never been a fan of a one or two of these guys) but in the real world do you think they bring us some choices and where? Some might say no one these are required roster members, but I think the Team does not get any worse with them gone and perhaps we stock some answers at many needed positions.

1) Matt Light

2) Laurence Maroney

3) Vince Wilfork (I say no but then there is sign and trade)

4) James Sanders (we have three others and he is the least talented)

5) Nick Kcazur (Either he or Light)

6) AD!!!!

7) Ron Brace (We paid a second rounder but I don't see him playing in 2010 if Wilfork is resigned)

8) Dan Koppen


IMO We need at the least 4 stellar FAs to go with say three of our eight 2010 picks now, that will work out.

DW Toys

Assuming Kaczur can move to RG, then I say no to Light, Kaczur and Koppen. A starting OL of Light-Mankins-Koppen-Kaczur-Vollmer should be very solid, and would give us the best continuity of all the options. Unless you think Connolly can start at OC then no to Koppen as well.

No to James Sanders. I would have considered yes earlier in the year, but he came on strong the 2nd half of the season and had a lot to offer. Having 4 high caliber safeties is a very good thing.

No to Ron Brace, unless someone makes an offer too good to refuse. It's too early to pass any judgments on him.

Maybe to Wilfork (tag and trade), if we can't work out a long term deal and things threaten to get acrimonius.

Maybe to Maroney if we sign a FA RB like Willis McGahee who would make Maroney redundant. Maroney ran hard this year, is young, still has upside, and is signed for reasonable money through 2010. But if BB has lost confidence in him and he signs a back who can carry the load, then trading Maroney while he still has value might make sense.

An emphatic "yes" to Adalius Thomas, if we can get anyone to pick up his contract and give us something for him. Hopefully someone will get desperate, like the team that gave up a 3rd and a 5th for Derrick Burgess last year. Oops ... maybe someone else.

 

[mgteich]

I agree with all your comments.

To summarize your candidates for trade

THOMAS to the highest bidder
WILFORK maybe
MARONEY maybe, after we have an adequate replacement signed in free agency

I would note that we need to consider timing. We may or may not trade any of these players until after the draft.

Assuming Kaczur can move to RG, then I say no to Light, Kaczur and Koppen. A starting OL of Light-Mankins-Koppen-Kaczur-Vollmer should be very solid, and would give us the best continuity of all the options. Unless you think Connolly can start at OC then no to Koppen as well.

No to James Sanders. I would have considered yes earlier in the year, but he came on strong the 2nd half of the season and had a lot to offer. Having 4 high caliber safeties is a very good thing.

No to Ron Brace, unless someone makes an offer too good to refuse. It's too early to pass any judgments on him.

Maybe to Wilfork (tag and trade), if we can't work out a long term deal and things threaten to get acrimonius.

Maybe to Maroney if we sign a FA RB like Willis McGahee who would make Maroney redundant. Maroney ran hard this year, is young, still has upside, and is signed for reasonable money through 2010. But if BB has lost confidence in him and he signs a back who can carry the load, then trading Maroney while he still has value might make sense.

An emphatic "yes" to Adalius Thomas, if we can get anyone to pick up his contract and give us something for him. Hopefully someone will get desperate, like the team that gave up a 3rd and a 5th for Derrick Burgess last year. Oops ... maybe someone else.

 

[mayoclinic]

I agree. To summarize your candidates for trade

THOMAS to the highest bidder
WILFORK maybe
MARONEY maybe, after we have an adeequate replacement signed in free agency

I would note that we need to consider timing. We may or may not trade any of these players until after the draft.

Absolutely correct on the timing issue.

 

[SanAngeloState]

I don't think anyone gives up draft picks to pay 5M for a one year rental of AD. I could be wrong.

 

[JackBauer]

I see DW is still on his jihad against Sanders. Fourth most talented? If so, then why did he start the entire second half, and why did the secondary look a lot better when he was in the game?

I would say no to all of those players except Thomas.

Even if we do sign McGahee, I don't really think that makes Maroney redundant. I'd rather jettison Morris and run with a backfield of McGahee-Maroney-Taylor.

 

[mgteich]

We might get a 5th. We trade a Thomas for a 7th least year.

I don't think anyone gives up draft picks to pay 5M for a one year rental of AD. I could be wrong.

 

[mayoclinic]

Even if we do sign McGahee, I don't really think that makes Maroney redundant. I'd rather jettison Morris and run with a backfield of McGahee-Maroney-Taylor.

I personally agree with you, which is why I said "unless BB has given up on Maroney". His benching the last 2 games was somewhat cryptic, and there were rumors that BB was fed up with him. But otherwise, I agree with you.

 

[JackBauer]

I personally agree with you, which is why I said "unless BB has given up on Maroney". His benching the last 2 games was somewhat cryptic, and there were rumors that BB was fed up with him. But otherwise, I agree with you.

I'll admit it has been a bit frustrating to watch. If we can make some upgrades to the OL (and similarly, the run blocking), and perhaps get a FB, I think that would be very beneficial.

Additionally, it seems weird that all of a sudden Maroney would develop a case of chronic butterfingers; seems like something that could be resolved through coaching and technique adjustments.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

I see DW is still on his jihad against Sanders.

LOL that is one of the funniest things I've read in a while. It's just the use of the word "jihad" that got me hahahah.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I see DW is still on his jihad against Sanders. Fourth most talented?

Of course DW is still on the warpath, it's what you do when your hatred is formed of prejudice and an inability to think clearly. Sanders is the fourth most "talented," but that didn't preclude him from being NE's "best" Safety last season.

 

[DW Toys]

Of course DW is still on the warpath, it's what you do when your hatred is formed of prejudice and an inability to think clearly. Sanders is the fourth most "talented," but that didn't preclude him from being NE's "best" Safety last season.

Opinions cousin...Opinions.
I need the link to best safety please.
DW Toys

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Opinions cousin...Opinions.
I need the link to best safety please.
DW Toys

You mean the Safety who pulled the secondary back together after it started giving up all those long balls? The kid who was relegated to Special Teams until over half the season was over and suddenly was starting again with no injuries to the starters? Sanders was the "best" Safety because he played the best, or did you not notice Meriweather getting burned and McGowan getting benched?

Links are those things connecting your brain cells together so they work in partnership, I'm afraid I'm not qualified as a brain surgeon so you'll just have to disagree with my "analysis" which forms my "opinion." Also, feel free to continue ignoring why BB re-signed the kid you hate so much and whose trade you are demanding, I recognize it as a brain cell linking problem brought about by blind hate.

 

[mayoclinic]

You mean the Safety who pulled the secondary back together after it started giving up all those long balls? The kid who was relegated to Special Teams until over half the season was over and suddenly was starting again with no injuries to the starters? Sanders was the "best" Safety because he played the best, or did you not notice Meriweather getting burned and McGowan getting benched?

Links are those things connecting your brain cells together so they work in partnership, I'm afraid I'm not qualified as a brain surgeon so you'll just have to disagree with my "analysis" which forms my "opinion." Also, feel free to continue ignoring why BB re-signed the kid you hate so much and whose trade you are demanding, I recognize it as a brain cell linking problem brought about by blind hate.

"Best" safety or not, Sanders clearly proved his value and his worth over the 2nd half of the season, going from forgotten man to the glue that held the secondary together. I think you can make a good case that without him we would not have won the division and made the playoffs, as he stopped the hemorrhaging that was occurring in the secondary. I think that easily warrants his cost to the team, and it would be foolhardy to consider trading him at this point. Plus, he's a very loyal and solid team player, and BB regards him quite highly.

 

[DW Toys]

You mean the Safety who pulled the secondary back together after it started giving up all those long balls? The kid who was relegated to Special Teams until over half the season was over and suddenly was starting again with no injuries to the starters? Sanders was the "best" Safety because he played the best, or did you not notice Meriweather getting burned and McGowan getting benched?

Links are those things connecting your brain cells together so they work in partnership, I'm afraid I'm not qualified as a brain surgeon so you'll just have to disagree with my "analysis" which forms my "opinion." Also, feel free to continue ignoring why BB re-signed the kid you hate so much and whose trade you are demanding, I recognize it as a brain cell linking problem brought about by blind hate.

I admit it. He is not my cup of team. He might be savvy but he cannot tackle period. Please don't start with me that he can. Nor can he cover anyone. So there is a disconnect with me on his value. He takes bad angles and is the worst tackling of all the Safeties and Merriweather had a tough year doing that. Maybe he should be the DB coach if you think he brought the pass "D" together, seriously. He is pretty poor but you guys like him so I guess it's just me. I am sure nobody saw his chicken move in the 06 Championship game when he allowed Adai to walk in? It was like he had money on the Colts. That is why I can't take this kid. That was one of the most gutless plays I have ever seen in the NFL. But you and Jack love him so that is fine. I say there is someone somewhere better to take his roster spot. This isn't about you or me. I respect your comments. I don't have to agree with them. Fair enough?

This wasn't a Sanders "analysis". I just asked if there was any of these players that perhaps we could get a few additional picks for and where. I classified him as replaceable. This was not a personal affront on your knowledge nor Sanders. I like Light but he is there too.

I think we need more than Drafted players but some FAs. Count the FAs on the Saints. Are they in the SB without them? But if BK decides not to go shopping I count 13 needs in 2010 or upgrades. We have only 8 choices.

DW Toys

 

[Feep50]

Light and Kaczur: the price has to be right. Koppen: no

Maroney and AD: highest bidder, cya

Ron Brace: Unknown commodity to me. No idea what he is worth or whether he should be traded.......

ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR who else?:bricks:

 

[DW Toys]

I see DW is still on his jihad against Sanders. Fourth most talented? If so, then why did he start the entire second half, and why did the secondary look a lot better when he was in the game?

I would say no to all of those players except Thomas.

Even if we do sign McGahee, I don't really think that makes Maroney redundant. I'd rather jettison Morris and run with a backfield of McGahee-Maroney-Taylor.

Jack I had to laugh at jihad myself. After a tough day in the real world that was funny.
Thanks,
DW Toys

 

[DaBruinz]

I admit it. He is not my cup of team. He might be savvy but he cannot tackle period. Please don't start with me that he can. Nor can he cover anyone. So there is a disconnect with me on his value. He takes bad angles and is the worst tackling of all the Safeties and Merriweather had a tough year doing that. Maybe he should be the DB coach if you think he brought the pass "D" together, seriously. He is pretty poor but you guys like him so I guess it's just me. I am sure nobody saw his chicken move in the 06 Championship game when he allowed Adai to walk in? It was like he had money on the Colts. That is why I can't take this kid. That was one of the most gutless plays I have ever seen in the NFL. But you and Jack love him so that is fine. I say there is someone somewhere better to take his roster spot. This isn't about you or me. I respect your comments. I don't have to agree with them. Fair enough?

Make up some more BS why don't you. Sanders can't tackle? Since when?

As for the "chicken move" in the 06 Championship game, I think that you'll find that the pats should have let him get in the play before that because the extra play took too much time off the clock..

You claim it was gutless, but you have proven time and again your bias hatred of the guy. And you have no real reason for it. Just your made up excuses that you supposedly see. Yet, no one backs you up on them.

Whereas, many people come out and tell you that you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to Sanders... It's going on 4 years and you still prove you haven't learned a damn thing.

 

[mayoclinic]

DW,

Earlier this year both Box O' Rocks and I suggested the possibility that Sanders could be traded in the offseason. At the time (around the trading deadline) McGowan seemed to have firmly supplanted Sanders and was considered our defensive MVP by many, and Chung was showing nice signs of developing. The argument we made was not that Sanders didn't have value, but that his salary wasn't justified for a #4 safety, that he had trade value just because he was young and had value to other teams, and that the #4 safety spot could be filled more cheaply by Brad Lockett or a rookie S (such as Myron Rolle, perhaps). The advantage of trading him would be (1) freeing up money to spend on other areas of need, and (2) it would clarify the salary structure at the position, as you generally don't want your #4 guy to be making more than the other 3 guys. We argued that re-signing Sanders was a good move a year ago, but that the safety situation had changed with Chung and McGowan. We didn't necessarily advocate this move, but said that we could foresee it as a business decision by the FO. We got a fair amount of flack for this position from MgTeich and several others. You can read the discussions here:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/296048-3-million-year-sanders.html

The problem is, the situation has changed. The safety position fell apart in games 10-12, and Sanders more than any other person was responsible for being the glue to hold it together. BB and others clearly acknowledged that Sanders' veteran leadership improved communications in the secondary and prevented some of the huge breakdowns that occurred in the Saints game, among others. Sanders resumed his starting role as the #2 guy, with Chung clearly in the wings. McGowan disappeared, which was a bit of a mystery given how terrific he had been earlier in the year. Whether he was injured (the team never tells us anything), or he just wore down from the wear and tear of his kamikaze style of play on his slight frame, or whether teams just adjusted to him, I don't know.

But given how Sanders' role has changed, I firmly believe that it no longer makes sense to trade him. It would frankly make more sense to trade McGowan for a draft pick to draft a rookie safety like Rolle if the team believed that McGowan would not be able to be effective again. But I doubt that is the case. I think we just are lucky enough to have 4 very good safeties, and we probably shouldn't mess with that situation.

The enemy of good is better.

MC

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

DW,

Earlier this year both Box O' Rocks and I suggested the possibility that Sanders could be traded in the offseason. At the time (around the trading deadline) McGowan seemed to have firmly supplanted Sanders and was considered our defensive MVP by many, and Chung was showing nice signs of developing. The argument we made was not that Sanders didn't have value, but that his salary wasn't justified for a #4 safety, that he had trade value just because he was young and had value to other teams, and that the #4 safety spot could be filled more cheaply by Brad Lockett or a rookie S (such as Myron Rolle, perhaps). The advantage of trading him would be (1) freeing up money to spend on other areas of need, and (2) it would clarify the salary structure at the position, as you generally don't want your #4 guy to be making more than the other 3 guys. We argued that re-signing Sanders was a good move a year ago, but that the safety situation had changed with Chung and McGowan. We didn't necessarily advocate this move, but said that we could foresee it as a business decision by the FO. We got a fair amount of flack for this position from MgTeich and several others. You can read the discussions here:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/296048-3-million-year-sanders.html

The problem is, the situation has changed. The safety position fell apart in games 10-12, and Sanders more than any other person was responsible for being the glue to hold it together. BB and others clearly acknowledged that Sanders' veteran leadership improved communications in the secondary and prevented some of the huge breakdowns that occurred in the Saints game, among others. Sanders resumed his starting role as the #2 guy, with Chung clearly in the wings. McGowan disappeared, which was a bit of a mystery given how terrific he had been earlier in the year. Whether he was injured (the team never tells us anything), or he just wore down from the wear and tear of his kamikaze style of play on his slight frame, or whether teams just adjusted to him, I don't know.

But given how Sanders' role has changed, I firmly believe that it no longer makes sense to trade him. It would frankly make more sense to trade McGowan for a draft pick to draft a rookie safety like Rolle if the team believed that McGowan would not be able to be effective again. But I doubt that is the case. I think we just are lucky enough to have 4 very good safeties, and we probably shouldn't mess with that situation.

The enemy of good is better.

MC

DW is at least correct in that Sanders trade value is at it's highest after he was reinstated to settle down and coordinate the secondary - where he misses the mark is his blind bias, ignoring what that says about Sanders greater value to a young secondary in 2010. I can't even begin to think of what error he is possibly crediting to Sanders in the 2006 AFCCG, but his insistence that one of the best tacklers on the team is one of the worst is part of my problem with his commentary.