Can an ILB be an effective passrusher?

[VJCPatriot]

I'm asking this question because I think we've been primarily looking at OLB as the 'answer' to the lack of pass pressure. But in the 3-4, can't your ILB bring pressure just as well, in the right scheme and play call?

This brings me to my second question concerning one Eric Norwood. At 6-1 251 lbs, he is way too short to be a BB OLB. But he has enough size to play at ILB for us. He's not ideal, but he could play like a Bruschi role maybe and rush from the inside LB position.

Eric Norwood Scouting Report - 2010 NFL Draft Prospect

The transition might be very difficult as playing from the outside and running around tackles or tight ends is a lot different than trying to penetrate inside against guards and centers, or is it? In addition he would have to learn 2 gap system and know when to drop back and when to rush the passer. Can he do this? How fluid does he look in space, can he drop back in coverage effectively?

I think I'd be more confident in a guy like Rolando McClain who has prototypical size as well as amazing athleticism and intangibles to take over SILB next to Mayo. But he's likely a top 10-15 pick. So if we can't get him, we could 'settle' for a Norwood in the late 2nd, early 3rd round area and see if he can make the conversion. Are there any other candidates for passrushers from the inside linebacker position? How about a Brandon Spikes? It looks like his stock has dropped to late 1st/early 2nd so he's an obtainable guy as well. I like the part where they describe him as good in coverage and now filled out to 255 lbs to go with a 6'3 frame.

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=1627

 

[NePatriots]

I'm not sold on Norwood as an SILB, although I would entertain AJ Edds from Iowa in that position. Edds has MUCH more experience and skill in coverage, and was very productive when he was called on to blitz (not often in Iowa's system).

 

[VJCPatriot]

Micah Johnson is another SILB possibility in rounds 2-3. But he sounds more like a Ted Johnson type who is a 2 down run stuffer, rather than a more versatile guy with the athleticism to rush the QB from the inside as well.

Micah Johnson Scouting Report - 2010 NFL Draft Prospect

 

[mgteich]

Adding Dansby or McClain would definitely improve our pressure on the QB. For me, that is more important than having a 3-4 OLB attacking the quraterback instead of carrying out his lane assignement.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Ask Laurence Maroney if an ILB can be an effective passrusher lol.

 

[mayoclinic]

Absolutely. I've been saying for a long time that (1) SILB is as much if not more of a priority than OLB, and (2) that interior pressure is more important than outside pressure. Almost all of our pressure in 2009 came from the outside. There was very little interior pressure, allowing the QB to step up in the pocket and avoid the pass rush. If we did nothing to improve our outside pass rush and improved our interior pressure, our defense would be vastly improved.

An SILB like Rolando McClain or Karlos Dansby could do wonders for this defense. If those options can't be achieved, I would consider some other possibilities:

1. Brandon Graham. At 6'1" 263" he's too short to really be an effective 3-4 OLB in BB's system, and I'm not sure his hips are flexible enough to play in space. But as a pressure generating SILB he has tremendous potential. He's got a non-stop motor, he's got great stack and shed technique, he would generate tremendous interior pressure, and he's terrific at playing the run. The only question is his ability to drop into coverage, but I don't think we would use him in that role. Guyton and McKenzie could substitute as coverage ILBs, much as we used Phifer and Johnson.

2. Eric Norwood. Again, at less than 6'1" he's too short to be a full time 3-4 OLB for us, but has most of Graham's assets plus a little more experience in space.

3. AJ Edds. By far the best coverage option of the 3. I'm not sure how much weight his 6'3" frame could carry (he weighed in at around 244#, I believe) or whether he could stand up to the pounding required at SILB. But he certainly is an option. He reminds me a bit of Stewart Bradley, who would also be an option if we could figure out some way to get him away from Philadelphia (which I can't).

 

[Sciz]

Micah Johnson's name is being throw around as the prototypical TED. Opinion on him or any other later round guys?

 

[TealSox]

Micah Johnson's name is being throw around as the prototypical TED. Opinion on him or any other later round guys?

I think I'm Micah Johnson's biggest fan, on this board at least. When he is "in the zone", he reminds me of Ray Lewis in the way that he weeds through the offensive line to find the ball carrier, gets up field and can hit.

Unfortunately, when he is bad, he is very bad.

Not a big fan of his tackling skills, because (from what I've seen) he seems to want to put a big hit on the ball carrier than wrap up. Don't get me wrong, he is (often) smart enough to go low and wrap up the legs, but he gets a little anxious; like a corner jumping routes, hoping for an INT. IMO, his coverage skills were above average in college, but won't likely hold water in the NFL.

Fingers crossed that he can be learn a lot of these things and improve.

 

[patsfan-1982]

yes a ILB can be a pass rusher look at Lawrence Timmons, rey lewis, patrick willis, all very good pass rusheing ILB



and i think they all redy have that LB in guyton yes he only had 1.5 sacks but the few times they did blitz him he got pressure on the QB with he's speed


but the front 3 have to get better they need to find a replacement. for seymour, there is no way any ILB is going to beat a 350lbs G or C the front has to do there job


and IMO the blitz packages were.. will they just sucked i don't have any other word for it they just sucked. BB defense dose not blitz a lot but when they do they are the best at hideing the blitz and geting to the QB and that has not happend. the last few years but should get better with a new DC

 

[Seneschal2]

1. Brandon Graham

2. Eric Norwood

And of course, coincidentally, the Pats have interviewed both -- correct?

 

[Defsoul]

David Harris had 5.5 sacks this season, making him the third best pass rusher for the Jests. He is another good example and I would love to see the Patriots bring in someone who could match that kind of production. Bringing pressure from the ILB position would make our defense less predictable.

 

[Nestapats]

David Harris had 5.5 sacks this season, making him the third best pass rusher for the Jests. He is another good example and I would love to see the Patriots bring in someone who could match that kind of production. Bringing pressure from the ILB position would make our defense less predictable.

I agree with you all that we need pressure from the inside, but i think it's also a schematic problem. If you looked at the Jets, the most effective blitz they did was attacking one side with a ILB and a safety/corner. The safety would be picked up by the RB, leaving the LB wideopen. If we could do blitzes like that on 3rd and long, we would have a great pass rush from the inside IMO. Still think D-Line is a higher priority.

 

[BritPat]

Can an ILB be an effective pass rusher?

Watch David Harris, Ray Lewis, Patrick Willis and Lawrence Timmons this year.

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

Absolutely. I've been saying for a long time that (1) SILB is as much if not more of a priority than OLB, and (2) that interior pressure is more important than outside pressure. Almost all of our pressure in 2009 came from the outside. There was very little interior pressure, allowing the QB to step up in the pocket and avoid the pass rush. If we did nothing to improve our outside pass rush and improved our interior pressure, our defense would be vastly improved.

An SILB like Rolando McClain or Karlos Dansby could do wonders for this defense. If those options can't be achieved, I would consider some other possibilities:

1. Brandon Graham. At 6'1" 263" he's too short to really be an effective 3-4 OLB in BB's system, and I'm not sure his hips are flexible enough to play in space. But as a pressure generating SILB he has tremendous potential. He's got a non-stop motor, he's got great stack and shed technique, he would generate tremendous interior pressure, and he's terrific at playing the run. The only question is his ability to drop into coverage, but I don't think we would use him in that role. Guyton and McKenzie could substitute as coverage ILBs, much as we used Phifer and Johnson.

2. Eric Norwood. Again, at less than 6'1" he's too short to be a full time 3-4 OLB for us, but has most of Graham's assets plus a little more experience in space.

3. AJ Edds. By far the best coverage option of the 3. I'm not sure how much weight his 6'3" frame could carry (he weighed in at around 244#, I believe) or whether he could stand up to the pounding required at SILB. But he certainly is an option. He reminds me a bit of Stewart Bradley, who would also be an option if we could figure out some way to get him away from Philadelphia (which I can't).

I think I'd feel really good seeing any of the 5 guys you mentioned here in the Flying Elvis.

 

[MaineMan]

The rush will never get home if the secondary can't cover long enough. But the secondary can't cover forever if the rush can't ever get home. Remember, we're talking about time in terms of tenths of seconds.

IMHO, Revis has done wonders for the Jets' QB pressure. Can just one guy like Graham (or Dansby or whoever) make Butler look more like Revis than like Wilhite?

 

[BritPat]

The rush will never get home if the secondary can't cover long enough. But the secondary can't cover forever if the rush can't ever get home. Remember, we're talking about time in terms of tenths of seconds.

IMHO, Revis has done wonders for the Jets' QB pressure. Can just one guy like Graham (or Dansby or whoever) make Butler look more like Revis than like Wilhite?

Watching our games this year and seeing how QB's have had 6/7/8 seconds lounging around in the pocket without any pressure whatsoever, shows to me the problem is up front, not in the back-field.

As for the Jets, their corners are awful outside of Revis, but they give up so little yards because the schemes work well and they can get pressure without sending 6 and 7 on every down.

It's about talent more than numbers - which is where we are sorely lacking.

 

[BlackFrancis]

Micah Johnson's name is being throw around as the prototypical TED. Opinion on him or any other later round guys?

I don't see him as a 2 down linebacker. His coverage skills are adequate to stay on the field and he could be a devastating presence to TEs/WRs coming across the line on drags. Johnson is the best inside linebacker in this draft at shedding college linemen and making the tackle. Whether this means he will be as effective as a pro remains to be seen.

On Norwood, I would kill for this kid. Small? Well, yeah, he's about as short as Tully Banta Cain. And while he could stand to add some meat onto his frame if he were to man the weak side of a 3-4, he has terrific football strength and knows how to use leverage.

 

[DaBruinz]

Micah Johnson is another SILB possibility in rounds 2-3. But he sounds more like a Ted Johnson type who is a 2 down run stuffer, rather than a more versatile guy with the athleticism to rush the QB from the inside as well.

Micah Johnson Scouting Report - 2010 NFL Draft Prospect

Johnson has seen his stock plummet because of the knee injury he suffered in the Gaylord Music Bowl. He's being projected as a Mid Day 2 pick now...

 

[DaBruinz]

Ask Laurence Maroney if an ILB can be an effective passrusher lol.
1

Yes, show the picture of Ray Lewis running in untouched after KOPPEN blew his assignment and Maroney had to pick him up at the last second.

 

[DaBruinz]

The rush will never get home if the secondary can't cover long enough. But the secondary can't cover forever if the rush can't ever get home. Remember, we're talking about time in terms of tenths of seconds.

IMHO, Revis has done wonders for the Jets' QB pressure. Can just one guy like Graham (or Dansby or whoever) make Butler look more like Revis than like Wilhite?

The Pass Rush is supposed to get to the QB in under 4 seconds. The CBs are supposed to be able to hold coverage for 5-6 seconds..

What makes guys like Lewis, Willis, and Harris effective is that the defenses they are in call for them to rush the passer on occasion. I don't remember anytime other than an outright BLITZ in which the Pats has Mayo rush. And I believe that it was by design because of his inexperience and the lack of talent for coverage amongst the LBers.