Will BB attempt to fix the pass rush?

[R_T26]

Seems like the lasy few years we wonder when were going to get a passrusher here.
We look at all the draft prospects and wonder which one they will pick, but they never do.

We hope they get one in free agency, which they did in 2007, signing AD coming off back to back double digit sack seasons. But instead of seeing him come off the edge he was turned into an ILB who stays in coverage. The one game he was let loose as a Patriot was the Super Bowl. Where he was the best pats player on the field (sans Welker). Yet 2008 was more of the same (remember what he did to favre week 2).

Last offseason Vrabel is traded, and we were all on here saying BB is up to something and has a plan. Then FA went by (dont say BB signed Tully as the passrush fix), draft went by, abd most of training camp went by....and the answer
to the passrush was trading a 3rd and 5th for a 31 year old whose sacks have steadily declined.
Then turn around a week later and trade your best passrusher on the defensive line.
So do you guys think BB will make passrush a priority this offseason?
Or will we be here in august talking up woods and crable again.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

I dont think this is even a question...

It was quite obvious the biggest piece missing on this years team was the lack of a pass rush. BB and staff cannot and will not ignore this. It will definitely be addressed probably from the draft rather than from FA

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

BB is nothing if not a pragmatist. I think he understands that the lack of defensive pressure won't cut it, and that the only way to slow down offenses like Indy and New Orleans in today's NFL with it's passer-friendly rules is to get pressure on the QB.

I think last offseason the priority was to upgrade the talent in the secondary. This has been done adequately, assuming we can keep Leigh Bodden. But no secondary can stop Brees, Rivers and Manning if they have all day to throw. The defensive priority this offseason has got to be the pass rush. And I expect BB to attack it with a vengeance.

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

BB is nothing if not a pragmatist. I think he understands that the lack of defensive pressure won't cut it, and that the only way to slow down offenses like Indy and New Orleans in today's NFL with it's passer-friendly rules is to get pressure on the QB.

I think last offseason the priority was to upgrade the talent in the secondary. This has been done adequately, assuming we can keep Leigh Bodden. But no secondary can stop Brees, Rivers and Manning if they have all day to throw. The defensive priority this offseason has got to be the pass rush. And I expect BB to attack it with a vengeance.

Exactly.

And don't bank on our savior being an OLB 3-4. That position is overrated as a pass-rusher. It might well be a monster DL.

I am watching Pats vs. Colts on NFLN right now and the one thing that keeps striking me is how little pressure they put on Manning. I am now wondering how we lost by just one point.

 

[celticboy04]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

Or will we be here in august talking up woods and crable again.

Greetings,
Might have to live with that being a possibility.
Shalom,
Celticboy04

 

[patsfan-1982]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

i say yes but like psycho said i don't think it will be OLB im looking for a big upgrade at D line BB is to picky with he's LB's no way a rookies comes in here and makes a impact at OLB in this system. but it would be nice to see him take one of the many good looking OLB in the first or 2th round

 

[GoWhalers]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

I always took BB's basic philosophy to be as follows:

Step 1) Stop the run. Force them into known passing downs. Get the ball back into your offense's hands.

Step 2) When the offense has the ball, execute and score. Remember how effective the Patriots used to be on the first drive of the game? There was a crazy stat about how they scored TD or FG on like 95% of their first drives.

Step 3) Once the other team is playing from behind and is one-dimensional, then you let loose with the pass rush.

Clearly we never got to step 3 against a quality opponent. The Pats struggled alternately between steps 1 and 2. Sometimes they would get good stops, only to have the offense go 3 and out. Sometimes they would be scoring effectively, but then the defense would be sloppy.

I don't think a BB-orchestrated pass rush is going to be highly visible unless the opponent is playing to the pace dictated by the Patriots. If the opponent is dictating tempo of the game, BB is going to spend his scheming trying to restore control at the line of scrimmage, not sending exotic blitzes.

 

[celticboy04]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

Exactly.

And don't bank on our savior being an OLB 3-4. That position is overrated as a pass-rusher. It might well be a monster DL.

I am watching Pats vs. Colts on NFLN right now and the one thing that keeps striking me is how little pressure they put on Manning. I am now wondering how we lost by just one point.

Greetings,
Agreed. I think the other end position is a bigger need than OLB. Now I am not saying we don't need an uprgade there, I don't think singing one dominant OLB is going to be the biggest solution to the pass rush issues. Especially when you have a guy like Jarvis Green gets dominated by runningbacks when they block him. BTW isn't Guyton's natural position OLB?
Shalom,
Celticboy04

 

[jmt57]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

I don't know if Belichick completely ignored the pass rush last offseason; I think certain things didn't work out. For example we the Pats made a serious attempt to sign Jason Taylor, and while we don't know for sure, I'm guessing there were negotiations for Julius Peppers as well. Probably a few others that we'll never know about that the Pats made a run at too that would have been welcome additions. Unfortunately the Pats weren't in all that great of a cap position for free agency last year.

Hopefully MacKenzie is fully recovered. If so I'll be curious to see how he'll be used. I recall reading that he was projected to play ILB and Guyton would be the backup, even though he was an OLB in college. I wonder if he is healthy if the Pats would move him back to the outside - or leave him inside with Guyton and make Mayo an OLB.

As for Crable, I don't think anybody's expecting anything from him. If the team gets some production then great, that's a bonus. But realistically, how much faith do you put in someone making the team that has been out of football for two years with injuries?

 

[RyanP421]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

I always took BB's basic philosophy to be as follows:

Step 1) Stop the run. Force them into known passing downs. Get the ball back into your offense's hands.

Step 2) When the offense has the ball, execute and score. Remember how effective the Patriots used to be on the first drive of the game? There was a crazy stat about how they scored TD or FG on like 95% of their first drives.

Step 3) Once the other team is playing from behind and is one-dimensional, then you let loose with the pass rush.

Clearly we never got to step 3 against a quality opponent. The Pats struggled alternately between steps 1 and 2. Sometimes they would get good stops, only to have the offense go 3 and out. Sometimes they would be scoring effectively, but then the defense would be sloppy.

I don't think a BB-orchestrated pass rush is going to be highly visible unless the opponent is playing to the pace dictated by the Patriots. If the opponent is dictating tempo of the game, BB is going to spend his scheming trying to restore control at the line of scrimmage, not sending exotic blitzes.

Excellent post...Agreed 100%

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

Obviously Burgess didn't play up to expectations, but let's not forget those expectations. The majority of this board was thrilled with the acquisition, and some even declared him the final piece. This isn't meant to mock those predictions, but to show that this acquisition wasn't just a free agent value signing; it was a big-time move.

It didn't work out the way everyone hoped, but I'd like to see Burgess back at a reasonable rate. He was useless the first 10 games or so, but really started coming on as the season was ending. Maybe he had fresh legs from not doing anything the first 2/3 of the season But maybe he was finally getting a hang of the system, and his improved play was part of that. Even Albert Haynesworth, last season's huge FA signing, struggled in a new system in his first season.

We definitely need to improve the pass rush, and I think we will, though this defense isn't designed to get a guy 15 or 17 sacks. It's not like in Minnesota where Jared Allen can take whatever route he wants to the QB and doesn't have to worry about any other responsibilities. Our guys have 2-gap responsibilities, and even with a switch to a 1-gap system, I doubt we'd ever let someone do whatever they want like Allen.

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

Exactly.

And don't bank on our savior being an OLB 3-4. That position is overrated as a pass-rusher. It might well be a monster DL.

I am watching Pats vs. Colts on NFLN right now and the one thing that keeps striking me is how little pressure they put on Manning. I am now wondering how we lost by just one point.

That's part of why I see us drafting the bigger DE/OLB guys like Carlos Dunlap, Jason Pierre-Paul, Everson Griffen or Austen Lane, compared with the smaller guys like Ricky Sapp and Sergio Kindle. The first set of guys can be used at DE right away while they're learning the intricacies of 2 gap 3-4 OLB.

 

[chevss454]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

BB is nothing if not a pragmatist. I think he understands that the lack of defensive pressure won't cut it, and that the only way to slow down offenses like Indy and New Orleans in today's NFL with it's passer-friendly rules is to get pressure on the QB.

I think last offseason the priority was to upgrade the talent in the secondary. This has been done adequately, assuming we can keep Leigh Bodden. But no secondary can stop Brees, Rivers and Manning if they have all day to throw. The defensive priority this offseason has got to be the pass rush. And I expect BB to attack it with a vengeance.

A common denominator in the 4 teams in the CCG's is an aggressive defense that attempts to disrupt the passing game. The Vikings, the Colts, the Jets and even NO were aggressively attacking the qb. To keep up, it seems the Pats have to develop an effective pass rush whether by scheme (NO and Jets) or by personnel (Vikings Jared Allen; Colts Mathis and Freeney). A change to a 1-gap in the 4/3 would be required for the later.
Could that be done with the addition of a Dunlap, JPP, etc.?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

BB is nothing if not a pragmatist. I think he understands that the lack of defensive pressure won't cut it, and that the only way to slow down offenses like Indy and New Orleans in today's NFL with it's passer-friendly rules is to get pressure on the QB.

I think last offseason the priority was to upgrade the talent in the secondary. This has been done adequately, assuming we can keep Leigh Bodden. But no secondary can stop Brees, Rivers and Manning if they have all day to throw. The defensive priority this offseason has got to be the pass rush. And I expect BB to attack it with a vengeance.

Given that the team had the Colts beaten this season, on the road, until a foolish 4th down decision was made, and that was with a depleted defensive line, why would you expect Belichick to learn this "lack of defensive pressure" argument when it's not really an accurate claim?

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

I always took BB's basic philosophy to be as follows:

Step 1) Stop the run. Force them into known passing downs. Get the ball back into your offense's hands.

Step 2) When the offense has the ball, execute and score. Remember how effective the Patriots used to be on the first drive of the game? There was a crazy stat about how they scored TD or FG on like 95% of their first drives.

Step 3) Once the other team is playing from behind and is one-dimensional, then you let loose with the pass rush.

Clearly we never got to step 3 against a quality opponent. The Pats struggled alternately between steps 1 and 2. Sometimes they would get good stops, only to have the offense go 3 and out. Sometimes they would be scoring effectively, but then the defense would be sloppy.

I don't think a BB-orchestrated pass rush is going to be highly visible unless the opponent is playing to the pace dictated by the Patriots. If the opponent is dictating tempo of the game, BB is going to spend his scheming trying to restore control at the line of scrimmage, not sending exotic blitzes.

This is the smartest post we have had in a long, long time and perfectly sums up the season.

It's amazing the hysteria this site displays toward a pass rush. Most elite QB's don't get blitzed because elite QB's eat up the blitz.

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

I think the main problem the patriots have is that they can't get tot he QB, teams know this and most will just abandon the run and throw the ball 50 times a game.

Sure, number 1 priority is to stop the run, but there are two ways to get a team to stop running the ball. The best way and the way we've seen the Patriots use the most is to score and put pressure on the opposing team to pass the ball.

The problem is tha once the Patriots do that, the other team starts passing the ball and the Patriots cannot get any pressure. hence, the Pats losing so many games in the second half when the other team opens up their playbook.

 

[cavtroop]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

A common denominator in the 4 teams in the CCG's is an aggressive defense that attempts to disrupt the passing game. The Vikings, the Colts, the Jets and even NO were aggressively attacking the qb. To keep up, it seems the Pats have to develop an effective pass rush whether by scheme (NO and Jets) or by personnel (Vikings Jared Allen; Colts Mathis and Freeney). A change to a 1-gap in the 4/3 would be required for the later.
Could that be done with the addition of a Dunlap, JPP, etc.?

This is what I've been mulling about in my head. It used to be conventional wisdom said stop the run, you can win the game. I think the game has changed too much in the last 6-10 years though, and the run is becoming more of an afterthought, with all the rules in place to help the offenses.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

I'm in the camp that thinks they tried to address the pass rush this year, but several things contributed to it not working out:

1) The loss of Seymour greatly weakened our d-line, which gives the linebackers fewer free looks to the QB. I still agree with the trade, but it's effect on this year is undeniable IMO.

2) Adalius Thomas was just not very good. Even last year he was leading the team in sacks I think before his injury. Whether he never fully recovered from that, or got old fast, or just lost interest, or whatever the problem was, he SHOULD have been our best OLB, and just wasn't even close.

3) Mayo's injury. Sure, he was only out for a handful of games, but I don't think he was 100% all season (or at least not until late). Besides limiting a threat of pass rush from the interior, this also probably forced them to be more conservative with their other LBs. Can't overcommit someone like Guyton if you don't think Mayo has the movement to cover two people's ground, for one example.

4) Burgess wasn't as impactful as we thought he would be, though I think TBC exceeded expectations, so this was really a wash.

5) Injuries to Crable and McKenzie, while maybe they wouldn't provided much (unproven as they are), they were still two options that were not at our disposal after camp that were in the plans before camp.

Add to these the attempt to sign Taylor (and possible others), and it was just a snake bitten season for the Pats in regards to the pass rush. Not to give them excuses, because part of success is being able to absorb situations like this and keep plugging (which is why they try to build a roster 1-53 instead of making it top heavy), and this year they just weren't able to do it.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

Given that the team had the Colts beaten this season, on the road, until a foolish 4th down decision was made, and that was with a depleted defensive line, why would you expect Belichick to learn this "lack of defensive pressure" argument when it's not really an accurate claim?

Wow

I am agreeing with Dues.

Did anybody bother to watch the Colts game? If so what's up with projecting the preconceived fantasies on that game?

There was around 3 minutes to go, the Pats are up by 13 with the defense limiting Goober to 7 points and two picks in the second half.

The Colts throw deep, Butler makes a great play, gets flagged for a mysterious PI, Colts score from the 11 yard line.

4th and two happens and they score from the 28 yard line.

How did the "blitz happy" defenses work for the Giants and Steelers this year?

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: Will BB attempt to fix the passrush?

Given that the team had the Colts beaten this season, on the road, until a foolish 4th down decision was made, and that was with a depleted defensive line, why would you expect Belichick to learn this "lack of defensive pressure" argument when it's not really an accurate claim?

Because it is an accurate claim.

Up in the 4th quarter, stupid PI call on Butler, bad playcalling, all of that doesn't negate the fact that our defense got no pass rush on Manning, and he carved us up in the 4th quarter. We got no pressure on Drew Brees 2 weeks later in New Orleans, and the game was essentially over by halftime. We got no pressure on Chad Henne, and he torched us, for Crissakes.

Getting effective defensive pressure does not equate to running a blitz-happy, gambling offense, either. But if you think we got effective pressure this year, you need your eyes/head examined.