Should we overpay for some of our UFA's?

[mgteich]

Poster often talk about letting every player go unless we can gewt him to stay at a fair price. Folks usually mean that if a player can get more tha patriots think is fair, then he is certainly free to go.

Are any of our UFA's worth more to us than to other teams, so much more that we would be willing to "overpay", that is, pay more than what other teams are offering?

 

[Rob0729]

It depends on what overpay means. Some players just have unrealistic senses of their value. I am for overpaying for players if the overpay price is reasonable, but even if you overpay for a player there is a limit even for guys like Daniel Snyder.

 

[xmarkd400x]

Yes!

Make Brady the lowest paid player on the team!

/s

 

[RayClay]

Poster often talk about letting every player go unless we can gewt him to stay at a fair price. Folks usually mean that if a player can get more tha patriots think is fair, then he is certainly free to go.

Are any of our UFA's worth more to us than to other teams, so much more that we would be willing to "overpay", that is, pay more than what other teams are offering?

How about we pay the right amount? Overpay is a ridiculous term when used in the context of something you do on purpose.

Was anyone beating down the door for Adalius, for instance? We paid plenty and we desperately needed what we thought he offered. He underperformed.

Could you say we overpaid because we've neglected to replace our excellent former linebacker corps? I suppose you could. Over pay means paid too much. It should never be a goal.

 

[mgteich]

I purposely used the term "overpay" since most on this board want our UFA's to take discounts from market to play for the patriots. After all, what the patriots offer is fair, and if a player wants more, we'll just let other teams overpay.

I am trying to focus on our own UFA's since the patriots have an opportunity to lock up at least some of these players BEFORE free agency starts.

How about we pay the right amount? Overpay is a ridiculous term when used in the context of something you do on purpose.

Was anyone beating down the door for Adalius, for instance? We paid plenty and we desperately needed what we thought he offered. He underperformed.

Could you say we overpaid because we've neglected to replace our excellent former linebacker corps? I suppose you could. Over pay means paid too much. It should never be a goal.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Even Adalius took less. Unfortunately, that still resulted in an overpay. That will happen inadvertently every once in a while. Should never happen intentionally. There will be a cap again, bank on it.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I purposely used the term "overpay" since most on this board want our UFA's to take discounts from market to play for the patriots. After all, what the patriots offer is fair, and if a player wants more, we'll just let other teams overpay.

I am trying to focus on our own UFA's since the patriots have an opportunity to lock up at least some of these players BEFORE free agency starts.

Your tortured logic threads are one of the joys of the off season...NOT...

Part of the philosophical underpinning of this system that has taken us to 4 of the Superbowls this decade is teambuilding is not about talent collection or retention, it's about identifying players to whom football (and specifically having the opportunity to consistently play it at a championship level no matter what that entails) matters. As in more than every last dollar. It's like a little litmus test. Not everyone who passes is a slam dunk winner, just like not everyone who fails is a moneygrubbing loser. But as a rule it speaks volumes about a guys heart and drive to do something besides make more money than his peers and appear on NFL highlight clips.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, we can have a team of Bruschi's ot NOT. There are limited number of players who think that playing for the patriots and in Boston is so much of a priviledge that would gladly play here for less than what other team are offering.

Yes, let's continue talking about the 2001-2004 patriots as if they didn't care about money. Say it often enough, act as if money isn't important, and we will still be talking about 2001-2004 in 2014 or 2024 or 2034.

Your tortured logic threads are one of the joys of the off season...NOT...

Part of the philosophical underpinning of this system that has taken us to 4 of the Superbowls this decade is teambuilding is not about talent collection or retention, it's about identifying players to whom football (and specifically having the opportunity to consistently play it at a championship level no matter what that entails) matters. As in more than every last dollar. It's like a little litmus test. Not everyone who passes is a slam dunk winner, just like not everyone who fails is a moneygrubbing loser. But as a rule it speaks volumes about a guys heart and drive to do something besides make more money than his peers and appear on NFL highlight clips.

 

[JSn]

I think proper payment will happen. We've paid guys extra to keep them on the practice squad, no reason we won't throw in an extra suitcase of cash to keep a guy like TBC around.

Some of the assessment, that is "this guy is costing us too much time to say bye" will make it easier to pay more. I expect we'll be filling some more holes with rookies and maybe 2 big free-agents.

 

[Jimke]

I purposely used the term "overpay" since most on this board want our UFA's to take discounts from market to play for the patriots. After all, what the patriots offer is fair, and if a player wants more, we'll just let other teams overpay.

I am trying to focus on our own UFA's since the patriots have an opportunity to lock up at least some of these players BEFORE free agency starts.

With the exception of a player like Kevin Faulk who is at the end of

his career, I don't expect any of the Patriot's free agents to re-sign

at much less than market value. Players are more concerned about the

size of their paychecks than Superbowl rings. Besides, signing with the

Patriots does not guarantee a Superbowl ring.

 

[RayClay]

Even Adalius took less. Unfortunately, that still resulted in an overpay. That will happen inadvertently every once in a while. Should never happen intentionally. There will be a cap again, bank on it.

Precisely my point. Good personnel management looks ahead at needs and doesn't let the team be held hostage by one player. You need to secure a good quarterback, but otherwise if you plan well, you can let a player go to some other team that overpays (makes a mistake).

It's amazing how often "overpayment" follows a lack of due diligence in ensuring one can survive until the high dollar player is replaced. Asante wanted too much and had we hit better with free agents or drafted more, we would have turned over that position sooner. I'm fine with our current secondary and think it will be better than our past.

We paid a healthy contract for Seymour in his prime and it was a good decision. Injuries happen and don't turn a good decision into a bad one. Was he worth another long term contract when we could lose a year of him and get a #1 from a horrible team? We'll see. His loss didn't sink that team. I loved the guys performance, but he wasn't exactly a company man and who knows if he would have helped or hurt in the Adalius situation.

sometimes you need that one player or want a guy bad so you go get him. People think we overpayed for Welker, for instance. People just have to get this word overpay out of their vocabulary as anything that could ever be positive.

Overpay means you made a mistake. No, we should never overpay. If you study and determine a player is really going to fit your team and some website or poster says you overpaid, you didn't if you got what you wanted and paid what you needed to at the time. Tiny gradations of salary or draft position simply melt away if you get the guy that makes your Offense or defense click.

More devastating are the tons of great value drafts and acquisitions that lay eggs, that you waste time and money on. The same pundits will tell you the waste of space was a great value and that's just so much horse manure.

 

[ayjackson]

I think the uncapped year presents an opportunity to overpay in year one, but still have the players earning market to below-market deals from 2011 onward. It may be a good strategy to make a one-year investment in talent that become value assets from 2011 throughout the rest of their contract.

So maybe we don't have a "Value" squad in 2010, but in 2011 forward, we would. "Value" in an uncapped year is kinda moot.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think the uncapped year presents an opportunity to overpay in year one, but still have the players earning market to below-market deals from 2011 onward. It may be a good strategy to make a one-year investment in talent that become value assets from 2011 throughout the rest of their contract.

So maybe we don't have a "Value" squad in 2010, but in 2011 forward, we would. "Value" in an uncapped year is kinda moot.

That frontloading opportunity is limited by restrictions on constructing contracts in an expiring CBA. And then there is the matter of a potential lockout season looming the following season...

 

[SanAngeloState]

I say no. Dump them all for the most part. Maybe keep Mankins.

Wilfork, Bodden, etc. should go.

We need to build a team from the draft, no 'cheating' by getting FAs to cover our incompetence. Wheatley and Wilhite no good? Give them some experience, maybe they'll improve.

I can't figure out how Indy takes late round picks and makes a coherent, effective defense out of them while we have #1 DL Warren, Mayo, Merriweather, and high priced FA Thomas and can't stop jack.

 

[ayjackson]

That frontloading opportunity is limited by restrictions on constructing contracts in an expiring CBA. And then there is the matter of a potential lockout season looming the following season...

There's still an ability to front load. With a possible lockout, you'd have to take it on a case by case basis and be diligent on who you front load.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I can't figure out how Indy takes late round picks and makes a coherent, effective defense

I think it has something to do with the checks to the refs Bill Polian writes every year.

[And I'm mostly serious—how else do you explain the fact that the Colts, in the recent past, went an entire season without getting a single call of defensive PI?]

 

[condon84]

Yes, to a point.

I would rather have overpay a player that we know can play in our system than pay a FA a good amount of money but have the risk of them being a bust in our system.

For example, had we overpaid for Asante, then we wouldn't have to use our second round pick on Wheatley, maybe we get a LB or OL instead. Then, maybe the Butler pick this year would have netted us a WR or another OL.

There's just a huge trickle effect whenever we invest a large percentage of the salary cap to someone who is not going to produce. At least with Asante, we would have locked up that position for the next 4 years.