Pats looking at LB O'Brien Schofield

[JackBauer]

Would you rather have Lamarr Woodley now or Brandon Meriweather? And Taylor Mays looks like he is going to be available around pick #22 in this year's draft.

So the question could be framed, would you rather have Woodley and Mays or Meriweather and whoever we get at pick #22? Hmmm?

Another thought is that since Woodley was a mid second round pick, you could have traded down from the 1st, gotten Woodley, and then gotten say an extra 3rd round pick to take another prospect or trade into the next year's draft!

LaMarr Woodley NFL & AFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

You can't look at these numbers, 11.5 sacks in 2008 and 13.5 sacks in 2009, and not help but think that Woodley would have helped us a lot more than Meriweather.

Don't like Mays as an NFL prospect, so the jury's still out.

 

[MaineMan]

In addition to Schofield, watch for Dexter Davis and Jason Beauchamp in the game. Davis is a DE converting like Schofield and Beauchamp is a 3-4 OLB from the UNLV system - both are getting positive press from their practices this week.

Where are you seeing positive press for Davis? Lammey, Bunting and Reuter all seem pretty down on him and I'd like to see an additional, perhaps different perspective.

 

[SanAngeloState]

6'2" 245...the pats have had a ton of these guys Angelo Craig, Robertson from GA Tech, Crable?

What makes him any different from any of the above?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Where are you seeing positive press for Davis? Lammey, Bunting and Reuter all seem pretty down on him and I'd like to see an additional, perhaps different perspective.

Reading between the lines in the links I've been posting, he's a college DE being asked to stand-up and play 4-3 OLB for the Shrine game. Like Schofield, when you look at the comments on the various duties he's trying to perform, he's struggling in coverage, but showing a positive learning curve for limited reps - and when they let him put his knuckles down he explodes. Right now, I don't see a 3-4 OLB prospect in rounds one and two whom I think BB will bid on, so the kids I'm looking at are the ones carrying third round and later grades - the short kids without the extra sand in their pockets who have to learn a new position to be anything more than a Special Teams Ace.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

6'2" 245...the pats have had a ton of these guys Angelo Craig, Robertson from GA Tech, Crable?

What makes him any different from any of the above?

He hasn't had a tryout in the NE system and been released yet. No question most of these kids will be cut loose, but TBC and Woods stuck, as did Ninkovich this year and Davis on the Practice Squad. You have to start somewhere.

 

[MaineMan]

He hasn't had a tryout in the NE system and been released yet. No question most of these kids will be cut loose, but TBC and Woods stuck, as did Ninkovich this year and Davis on the Practice Squad. You have to start somewhere.

It'll be interesting, one way or the other, to see Crable after, effectively, about a year and a half out of football.

I asked a Steeler fan on another board about Davis. Said there wasn't anything in particular that was bad about him, just that he didn't catch on fast enough to avoid getting caught in the numbers game, so there may be some potential there. OTOH, Reiss (I think - or maybe the PFW guys) were projecting him more for ILB - which IS a bit more in line with his pre-draft measurables.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I sorta remembered that about Ninkovich and Crable. But only "sorta", so I had to go look it up. Yep, Ninkovich had a 4.18 SS, 11.33 60-yd shuttle, and a 6.96 3-cone. Only guys quicker were Gocong and Kiwanuka. Crable had a (Pro Day, I think) 4.41 forty with a 1.26 10-yard split (helluva first step), but relatively poor shuttle/3-cone times.

Interestingly, it appears that Mayo, Guyton and McKenzie were all maybe a bit speedier than agile wrt Combine/ProDay numbers. Hmmm . . .

I have always liked Gocong, and I think Kiwanuka would be a prospect to consider as well. Do we know the free agency status of Kiwanuka? I believe Gocong is available this offseason.

 

[mayoclinic]

I have always liked Gocong, and I think Kiwanuka would be a prospect to consider as well. Do we know the free agency status of Kiwanuka? I believe Gocong is available this offseason.

Kiwanuka came out in 2006 so he has only 4 years experience. He signed a 5 year contract when he came out, so he's signed through 2010.

Chris Gocong also came out in 2006, but only signed a 4 year contract, so he is either a UFA or an RFA depending on whether it's a capped or uncapped year.

I still don't understand why, if BB is so adamant on getting 6'5" 260#+ guys who can play in space, rush and set the edge, the Pats didn't more strongly consider Mathias Kiwanuka in the 2006 draft. Kiwanuka did all of those things well, he played locally, and he was at one point considered a possible top 10 talent who had a slightly off senior year and slipped. Imagine if we had taken Kiwanuka in the 1st round and MJD in the 2nd to fill our RB need.

You would think that if these 6'5" 260# guys with the necessary agility are so rare, that we would jump when one was available.

 

[PatsCanDoIt]

Here's a video with a great view of an impressive move against, I believe Brian Bulaga.

Skip to 1:19 YouTube - 2009 Iowa Football Highlights: Iowa vs Wisconsin

Do we currantly have anyone that can that?

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Kiwanuka came out in 2006 so he has only 4 years experience. He signed a 5 year contract when he came out, so he's signed through 2010.

Chris Gocong also came out in 2006, but only signed a 4 year contract, so he is either a UFA or an RFA depending on whether it's a capped or uncapped year.

I still don't understand why, if BB is so adamant on getting 6'5" 260#+ guys who can play in space, rush and set the edge, the Pats didn't more strongly consider Mathias Kiwanuka in the 2006 draft. Kiwanuka did all of those things well, he played locally, and he was at one point considered a possible top 10 talent who had a slightly off senior year and slipped. Imagine if we had taken Kiwanuka in the 1st round and MJD in the 2nd to fill our RB need.

You would think that if these 6'5" 260# guys with the necessary agility are so rare, that we would jump when one was available.

Even though Gocong doesn't have the greatest statistics throughout his career, I think he would be worth a look, as long as the money is right. I'm not thinking he would be a star but he could contribute.

As to Kiwanuka, he is a good example of a guy that I thought could help, but they chose to go an opposite direction.

Hopefully this is the year that they address the position, be it through free agency or the draft (or, ideally, both).

 

[VJCPatriot]

But one position that we dissected quite a bit last year was outside linebacker. The Patriots would prefer someone who is 6-foot-4 or 6-5 and who could run 4.6 or 4.65. Here is a comment from Belichick around draft time. "I think the outside linebacker group this year was a little bit different. Generally speaking, I'd say there were more shorter players, maybe a little less speed than what we've seen, but maybe a little more power with good production. There weren't a lot of 4.6, 4.65 guys in the [40-yard dash], and not a lot of 6-4, 6-5 guys. There was a much smaller pool of those players."

Yup I definitely remember reading that somewhere before. BB has strict size/speed standards for OLB. It's hard to find guys that fit the physical mold he wants. Thanks for finding the quotation.

Kiwanuka came out in 2006 so he has only 4 years experience. He signed a 5 year contract when he came out, so he's signed through 2010.

Chris Gocong also came out in 2006, but only signed a 4 year contract, so he is either a UFA or an RFA depending on whether it's a capped or uncapped year.

I still don't understand why, if BB is so adamant on getting 6'5" 260#+ guys who can play in space, rush and set the edge, the Pats didn't more strongly consider Mathias Kiwanuka in the 2006 draft. Kiwanuka did all of those things well, he played locally, and he was at one point considered a possible top 10 talent who had a slightly off senior year and slipped. Imagine if we had taken Kiwanuka in the 1st round and MJD in the 2nd to fill our RB need.

You would think that if these 6'5" 260# guys with the necessary agility are so rare, that we would jump when one was available.

In hindsight, yes we should have drafted Kiwanuka + MJD. But that's hindsight. At the time, Colvin and Vrabel were both still playing at a high level and the concern was that Dillon was starting to slow down. They thought they were going to hit a homerun with Maroney... it was more like a bloop single.

PS what are the thoughts on Rickey Sapp?

NFL Draft Scout has him rated as the #1 overall OLB.
His size is listed at 6-4 248 lbs with 4.58 speed. If he shows up at the combine around 6-4 and say 255 without losing much speed, do you think he's a consideration for BB with pick 22?

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=66339&draftyear=2010&genpos=OLB

 

[mayoclinic]

PS what are the thoughts on Rickey Sapp?

NFL Draft Scout has him rated as the #1 overall OLB.
His size is listed at 6-4 248 lbs with 4.58 speed. If he shows up at the combine around 6-4 and say 255 without losing much speed, do you think he's a consideration for BB with pick 22?

I've called Rich Sapp "Shawn Crable II" more than once. I don't think he has the strength to set the edge. I definitely don't want him at 22, and I'd prefer Austen Lane as a weakside OLB. But if he did bulk up to 255 and showed the proper agility, I'd certainly consider him in the 2nd round.

 

[mayoclinic]

Chad Reuter of NFLdraftscout/CBSSports lists O'Brien Schofield as one of his "fallers" from the Shrine week:

"The first-team All-Big Ten pick popped off film this season but couldn't make much headway as a linebacker or defensive end in practices this week. He was trying to learn the linebacker position on the fly, but looked stiff and slow in his drops and in coverage. In one-on-one pass rush drills, he couldn't stay off the ground when trying to beat Saffold or Scott with his speed. Arizona State's Dexter Davis also struggled with the move from end to linebacker, especially in coverage."

Risers and Fallers from East-West Shrine practices - NFL - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

 

[hammertime]

Chad Reuter of NFLdraftscout/CBSSports lists O'Brien Schofield as one of his "fallers" from the Shrine week:

"The first-team All-Big Ten pick popped off film this season but couldn't make much headway as a linebacker or defensive end in practices this week. He was trying to learn the linebacker position on the fly, but looked stiff and slow in his drops and in coverage. In one-on-one pass rush drills, he couldn't stay off the ground when trying to beat Saffold or Scott with his speed. Arizona State's Dexter Davis also struggled with the move from end to linebacker, especially in coverage."

Then again, he was learning an entirely new position. I'd give him time and see what happens. It's like judging Julian Edelman as a WR based on a minicamp.

Though if he's slow, stiff in coverage AND can't rush the passer he may not have much of a future.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

6'2" 245...the pats have had a ton of these guys Angelo Craig, Robertson from GA Tech, Crable?

What makes him any different from any of the above?

Even though Gocong doesn't have the greatest statistics throughout his career, I think he would be worth a look, as long as the money is right. I'm not thinking he would be a star but he could contribute.

As to Kiwanuka, he is a good example of a guy that I thought could help, but they chose to go an opposite direction.

Hopefully this is the year that they address the position, be it through free agency or the draft (or, ideally, both).

Gocong was moved from college DE to 4-3 SLB, he's an ideal NE 3-4 OLB with his pass rush pedigree, his experience playing opposite the TE, and his two-gap experience in Philly's two-gap D. Of course he was my LB binky in 2006 and he could also slide inside to SILB after playing on his feet so much.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Chad Reuter of NFLdraftscout/CBSSports lists O'Brien Schofield as one of his "fallers" from the Shrine week:

"The first-team All-Big Ten pick popped off film this season but couldn't make much headway as a linebacker or defensive end in practices this week. He was trying to learn the linebacker position on the fly, but looked stiff and slow in his drops and in coverage. In one-on-one pass rush drills, he couldn't stay off the ground when trying to beat Saffold or Scott with his speed. Arizona State's Dexter Davis also struggled with the move from end to linebacker, especially in coverage."

Risers and Fallers from East-West Shrine practices - NFL - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

Golly, 300+ lb. Tackles knocking down a 240 lb. DE in one-on-one drills, inconceivable!.

 

[mayoclinic]

Golly, 300+ lb. Tackles knocking down a 240 lb. DE in one-on-one drills, inconceivable!.

We're used to it being the other way around - 240 lb. Robert Mathis knocking around 300 lb. Nick Kaczur, for example.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

We're used to it being the other way around - 240 lb. Robert Mathis knocking around 300 lb. Nick Kaczur, for example.

Yup, he sure does, especially when Nick is playing on two bum ankles, but heh, Vollmer was subbing for Light so obviously NE just had to scrape the bottom and throw Kac back out there.

 

[dryheat44]

Yup, he sure does, especially when Nick is playing on two bum ankles, but heh, Vollmer was subbing for Light so obviously NE just had to scrape the bottom and throw Kac back out there.

I don't think it's a stretch (or even debatable, really) that a completely healthy Kaczur struggles in the passing game. I don't think he gets enough credit for his run blocking.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I don't think it's a stretch (or even debatable, really) that a completely healthy Kaczur struggles in the passing game. I don't think he gets enough credit for his run blocking.

A completely healthy Nic Kaczur struggles against speed rushers to the same degree that a completely healthy Matt Light does, and no he doesn't get enough credit in the run game - which means he was exactly what Dante and BB were looking for when they drafted him - the fine balancing act between pass and run when you don't draft Top Five every year.