It's not all black and white

[BostonBullit]

All through the season and now in, what is for us anyway, the offseason I've been reading the posts of forum members who know what "the problem" was for the team. These posts inevitably deteriorate into religious debates and sometimes even go downhill from there. I would like to take a minute to add my opinion, which amounts to nothing more than that - an opinion - about what the key factor was that resulted in the (relatively) bad season for the New England Patriots. The key factor was all of the things that you all have been debating over and over on this board.

Was it the failings of the coaching staff? YES
Was it the failings of the "front office" in drafting and FA? YES
Was it the decision to trade away veteran talent? YES
Was it poor play by key members of the team (through injury or otherwise)? YES
Was it the lack of pass rush? YES
Was it lack of play making by the WR core? YES
Was it poor play in the secondary? YES
Bad O-Line play? YES
Bad play calling? YES
Was it lack of effort/heart by the players? YES

everyone can go round and round debating if Seymour would have helped this season, what would have happened if Galloway had worked out, if AD had been the play maker we thought he would be, if Rodney and Teddy hadn't called it a career but make no mistake, this season was a complete breakdown of the Patriots machine at ALL LEVELS.

I know, I'm crazy...how can I call a 10-6 division winning season a complete breakdown? well I can and I did. There was about 15mins total during this season that the team played as a team and looked the way we expect while doing it; the rest of the time some piece - or multiple pieces - of the machine where breaking down. games where the offense puts together a good game and the D craps out. games where the D gets it going and the O sputters. looks like we have a pass rush and all of the sudden there's no coverage. O and D look good and they're giving up plays on special teams. at almost every point of the season something was going wrong and as much as you (that's the royal YOU) want to pin it down to your pet peeve issue you can't; it's more complicated than that.

I'm still a Patsfan, I still have faith the ship can be righted, but it's not going to be as easy as plugging a guy in there or getting a bit more out of a guy over there. I feel they have talent at most positions, young talent that needs work in a lot of places (O-line, DB, DL, WR, ST) but talent none the less; regardless of how bad some of them looked last season. I just hope I'm right.

I'm done venting now.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

"Complete breakdown." No. A failure to put it all together? Seems more likely. Four first time position coaches. Two first time coaches. Two new coaches from outside the system. A coordinator-in-training. A Defensive Coordinator on the rebound from prostrate surgery over the summer. A depth failure at OLB and WR. An apparently unplanned turnover on the D-Line. Key injuries - as opposed to massive injuries. Etc. The season was painful, uncoordinated, and rightly should have been below .500 at the end - it's good to be a New England Patriots fan in the Krafty Bob era.

 

[Deus Irae]

"Complete breakdown." No. A failure to put it all together? Seems more likely. Four first time position coaches. Two first time coaches. Two new coaches from outside the system. A coordinator-in-training. A Defensive Coordinator on the rebound from prostrate surgery over the summer. A depth failure at OLB and WR. An apparently unplanned turnover on the D-Line. Key injuries - as opposed to massive injuries. Etc. The season was painful, uncoordinated, and rightly should have been below .500 at the end - it's good to be a New England Patriots fan in the Krafty Bob era.

You left out the cumulative effect of a failure to replace top shelf talent, poor decision making by the front office and poor decision making by the head coach.

 

[RobertWeathers]

An apparently unplanned turnover on the D-Line.

Regarding Seymour? How was that unplanned?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Regarding Seymour? How was that unplanned?

Did you expect him to be traded after a full training camp? Bill Machiavelli may have planned the entire thing on the flight back from Buffalo and before he'd even combed the wind swirl out of his curls, but more likely the trade developed in the latter part of preseason after he'd seen how his team was developing.

 

[Patspsycho]

"Complete breakdown." No. A failure to put it all together? Seems more likely. Four first time position coaches. Two first time coaches. Two new coaches from outside the system. A coordinator-in-training. A Defensive Coordinator on the rebound from prostrate surgery over the summer. A depth failure at OLB and WR. An apparently unplanned turnover on the D-Line. Key injuries - as opposed to massive injuries. Etc. The season was painful, uncoordinated, and rightly should have been below .500 at the end - it's good to be a New England Patriots fan in the Krafty Bob era.

You forgot the most important part.. a QB coming back from major knee surgery.

 

[Disco Volante]

Everything is black and white, here.

If you win the Super Bowl, you're perfect.

If you don't win the Super Bowl, you suck and it's time to rebuild.

 

[emoney_33]

"Complete breakdown." No. A failure to put it all together? Seems more likely. Four first time position coaches. Two first time coaches. Two new coaches from outside the system. A coordinator-in-training. A Defensive Coordinator on the rebound from prostrate surgery over the summer. A depth failure at OLB and WR. An apparently unplanned turnover on the D-Line. Key injuries - as opposed to massive injuries. Etc. The season was painful, uncoordinated, and rightly should have been below .500 at the end - it's good to be a New England Patriots fan in the Krafty Bob era.

I miss this kind of rationality

 

[IcyPatriot]

I remember being happy if we won as many as we lost. :nosmile:

Patriots under Belichick have like a 70% winning percentage.

Yet there are many who still pine away about it all ... who woulda thunk this. :confused3:

We also all could rich ... if we could have tomorrow's newspaper ... today.:idea2:

 

[Badluck]

jeez you guys are starting to make me feel the pats are on the raiders level

 

[bigfandan]

Recall many on this board speculated at the time that Bill must have been very pleased with progress by youngsters to make such a bold trade. Oh well, we are nothing if not optimists. ... Believe it or not, people were high on Gallaway, Alex Smith, Mathews, Lewis when the trades were made.)

Did you expect him to be traded after a full training camp? Bill Machiavelli may have planned the entire thing on the flight back from Buffalo and before he'd even combed the wind swirl out of his curls, but more likely the trade developed in the latter part of preseason after he'd seen how his team was developing.

 

[bigfandan]

It will make playing stock markets a lot easier.

We also all could rich ... if we could have tomorrow's newspaper ... today.:idea2:

 

[Mongo Heathen]

All through the season and now in, what is for us anyway, the offseason I've been reading the posts of forum members who know what "the problem" was for the team. These posts inevitably deteriorate into religious debates and sometimes even go downhill from there. I would like to take a minute to add my opinion, which amounts to nothing more than that - an opinion - about what the key factor was that resulted in the (relatively) bad season for the New England Patriots. The key factor was all of the things that you all have been debating over and over on this board.

Was it the failings of the coaching staff? YES
Was it the failings of the "front office" in drafting and FA? YES
Was it the decision to trade away veteran talent? YES
Was it poor play by key members of the team (through injury or otherwise)? YES
Was it the lack of pass rush? YES
Was it lack of play making by the WR core? YES
Was it poor play in the secondary? YES
Bad O-Line play? YES
Bad play calling? YES
Was it lack of effort/heart by the players? YES

everyone can go round and round debating if Seymour would have helped this season, what would have happened if Galloway had worked out, if AD had been the play maker we thought he would be, if Rodney and Teddy hadn't called it a career but make no mistake, this season was a complete breakdown of the Patriots machine at ALL LEVELS.

I know, I'm crazy...how can I call a 10-6 division winning season a complete breakdown? well I can and I did. There was about 15mins total during this season that the team played as a team and looked the way we expect while doing it; the rest of the time some piece - or multiple pieces - of the machine where breaking down. games where the offense puts together a good game and the D craps out. games where the D gets it going and the O sputters. looks like we have a pass rush and all of the sudden there's no coverage. O and D look good and they're giving up plays on special teams. at almost every point of the season something was going wrong and as much as you (that's the royal YOU) want to pin it down to your pet peeve issue you can't; it's more complicated than that.

I'm still a Patsfan, I still have faith the ship can be righted, but it's not going to be as easy as plugging a guy in there or getting a bit more out of a guy over there. I feel they have talent at most positions, young talent that needs work in a lot of places (O-line, DB, DL, WR, ST) but talent none the less; regardless of how bad some of them looked last season. I just hope I'm right.

I'm done venting now.

....Good points (in a general sense), but like all things - lends a little perspective here. We all need to remind ourselves how lucky to have an organization ('cause it takes an organization to win championships) that has had as long and relatively successful run as they've had. Once Kraft took over, this team has completely turned around. I've been a fan long enough to remember when it was a chronic league joke of a team, so I'm happy to have what we have - to include hope for the future. Yep - there's a lot of things needing fixin' - no doubt. Was the end of the season dissappointing - you bet. But - when the team puts it together and wins out - the victory tastes that much sweeter. I get the sense this team/organization is set up for the long haul and I like the idea of going into each season with a 'realistic' shot at the playoffs year in and year out. So, we need to chill out a little.

(That's my vent~!)

 

[chevss454]

Recall many on this board speculated at the time [Seymour was traded] that Bill must have been very pleased with progress by youngsters to make such a bold trade. Oh well, we are nothing if not optimists. ... Believe it or not, people were high on Galloway, Alex Smith, Mathews, Lewis when the trades were made.)

Or that BB knew this would be a rebuilding year and with or without Seymour the Pats weren't likely to be elite. Then along comes Al Davis and offers a #1 pick for Seymour which is simply too much value to turn down.

 

[spacecrime]

how can I call a 10-6 division winning season a complete breakdown?

Good question. Maybe someone can make a poll and tell you how you could say such a thing. Here are my possible answers:

a. Lack of understanding what the word "total" means.

b. Lack of understanding of numbers (i.e., 10-6 > 3-13)

c. Thinking the Patriots play baseball
(10 wins in baseball season = bad, 10 wins in football season = good)

d. General numbiness/cluelessness

e. Trolling for effect, hoping a lot of people will respond and give you needed attention.

 

[Zeus]

this season was a complete breakdown of the Patriots machine at ALL LEVELS

I would characterize it differently. It doesn't take a complete breakdown to turn a 13-3 team into a 10-6 team. The difference between winning and losing is razor thin.

You are correct that the team fell short in most (if not all) areas. This proved to be the difference in several close losses - jets, Broncos, Colts, Dolphins and Texans. There were the types of games that the 2003 and 2004 teams won.

Lots of people (front office, coaches, players) had the opportunity to do something that could have affected the outcome of those games.

After the season, Belichick said that if they could make small improvements in every area, they could improve significantly as a team. This does NOT mean that there are not a lot of questions to be answered and a lot of work to do. But let's be honest, we're not talking about the Detroit Lions here.

 

[Patstopia]

Imagine the line on the Tobin if the Pats actually did have a complete breakdown.

 

[BostonBullit]

this was not a "troll post" or forum grenade, been busy at work so I haven't been keeping up.

Luckily there where only two games where there was a complete collapse of all pieces at once (Saints and Playoff Ravens), what I was trying to say is that it was a complete collapse due to one or more parts of the team breaking down in every game except one. And this is also a relative measure, not an absolute one; I am comparing them against the same org from the last 10yrs.

People get so offended when you point out flaws of the team; comments like "I remember when they where blah and blah, you don't know how good we have it" and chicken little can always be found in any post that questions the team in any way. Well I'll flip it around for a sec and say I remember when the team was 16-0 or 14-2 and I had faith that even if they where anywhere within 3pts of the opponent I knew they could win. Contrast that to this season where the texts from friends watching the game said "4th qtr collapse time?", "time to go into prevent and blow it", and "3 and out or brady pick?" and you know something wasn't right. and that "something" wasn't just one thing from the list I posted or something that I left off it was a combination of ALL the things.

ok, back to work....

 

[BionicPatriot]

this was not a "troll post" or forum grenade, been busy at work so I haven't been keeping up.

Luckily there where only two games where there was a complete collapse of all pieces at once (Saints and Playoff Ravens), what I was trying to say is that it was a complete collapse due to one or more parts of the team breaking down in every game except one. And this is also a relative measure, not an absolute one; I am comparing them against the same org from the last 10yrs.

People get so offended when you point out flaws of the team; comments like "I remember when they where blah and blah, you don't know how good we have it" and chicken little can always be found in any post that questions the team in any way. Well I'll flip it around for a sec and say I remember when the team was 16-0 or 14-2 and I had faith that even if they where anywhere within 3pts of the opponent I knew they could win. Contrast that to this season where the texts from friends watching the game said "4th qtr collapse time?", "time to go into prevent and blow it", and "3 and out or brady pick?" and you know something wasn't right. and that "something" wasn't just one thing from the list I posted or something that I left off it was a combination of ALL the things.

ok, back to work....

This is why having a soft OL and a weak front 7 on D hurts. Depth and quality show in the 4th atr, and the Pats just always seemed to break down blocking. How many times would Maroney be running good, than go ghost in the 4th? His fault or the OL thatw as ALSO always getting Brady killed? I mean he was banged up this year more than EVER. If this doesn't show Bill to bolster the OL, I dunno what will. Koppen who is liked, is soft. Neal is not reliable, Light is useless to us with Vollmer. We need to get big and strong. We need a Mangold.

Lets not talk about the pass rush now, that always seemed to hit us at the worst times, no?

 

[mgteich]

With all these failures and poor decisions, I think it is time to have a serious 3-5 year rebuilding effort after our 6-10 season and finishing at the bottom of the division.

All through the season and now in, what is for us anyway, the offseason I've been reading the posts of forum members who know what "the problem" was for the team. These posts inevitably deteriorate into religious debates and sometimes even go downhill from there. I would like to take a minute to add my opinion, which amounts to nothing more than that - an opinion - about what the key factor was that resulted in the (relatively) bad season for the New England Patriots. The key factor was all of the things that you all have been debating over and over on this board.

Was it the failings of the coaching staff? YES
Was it the failings of the "front office" in drafting and FA? YES
Was it the decision to trade away veteran talent? YES
Was it poor play by key members of the team (through injury or otherwise)? YES
Was it the lack of pass rush? YES
Was it lack of play making by the WR core? YES
Was it poor play in the secondary? YES
Bad O-Line play? YES
Bad play calling? YES
Was it lack of effort/heart by the players? YES

everyone can go round and round debating if Seymour would have helped this season, what would have happened if Galloway had worked out, if AD had been the play maker we thought he would be, if Rodney and Teddy hadn't called it a career but make no mistake, this season was a complete breakdown of the Patriots machine at ALL LEVELS.

I know, I'm crazy...how can I call a 10-6 division winning season a complete breakdown? well I can and I did. There was about 15mins total during this season that the team played as a team and looked the way we expect while doing it; the rest of the time some piece - or multiple pieces - of the machine where breaking down. games where the offense puts together a good game and the D craps out. games where the D gets it going and the O sputters. looks like we have a pass rush and all of the sudden there's no coverage. O and D look good and they're giving up plays on special teams. at almost every point of the season something was going wrong and as much as you (that's the royal YOU) want to pin it down to your pet peeve issue you can't; it's more complicated than that.

I'm still a Patsfan, I still have faith the ship can be righted, but it's not going to be as easy as plugging a guy in there or getting a bit more out of a guy over there. I feel they have talent at most positions, young talent that needs work in a lot of places (O-line, DB, DL, WR, ST) but talent none the less; regardless of how bad some of them looked last season. I just hope I'm right.

I'm done venting now.