More CBA sloppiness: what UFAs can the final four teams sign?

[ctpatsfan77]

One of the things we've been suggesting is that BB might trade Adalius Thomas just to keep him away from the JEST.

Looking over the CBA, I'm not sure—not convinced, as you'll see—they can sign him easily. Here's who the top four teams can sign (emphasis mine):

Section 2. Top Four Teams: Each of the four Clubs that participated in the NFC and AFC Championship games the Prior League Year shall not be permitted to negotiate and sign any Unrestricted Free Agent to a Player Contract, except: (a) any Unrestricted Free Agent who acquired that status as a result of the NFL waiver system; (b) any Unrestricted Free Agent who was under contract to such Club on the last date of the last League Year of the player’s most recent Player Contract; and (c) any Unrestricted Free Agent signed pursuant to Section 4 below.

Now here's the sloppiness:

Section 1. Release:
(a) Whenever a player who has finished the season in which his fourth year of credited service has been earned under the Bert Bell/Pete Rozelle Plan is placed on waivers between February 1 and the trading deadline, his contract will be considered terminated and the player will be completely free at any time thereafter to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with such player, without penalty or restriction, including, but not limited to, Draft Choice Compensation between Clubs or First Refusal Rights of any kind, or any signing period. If the waivers occur after that time, the player’s Player Contract will be subject to the waiver system and may be awarded to a claiming Club. However, if such player is claimed and awarded, he shall have the option to declare himself an Unrestricted Free Agent at the end of the League Year in question if he has a no-trade clause in his Player Contract. If such player does not have a no-trade clause and the Player Contract being awarded through waivers covers more than one additional season, the player shall have the right to declare himself an Unrestricted Free Agent as set forth above at the end of the League Year following the League Year in which he is waived and awarded.

So, are players who've had their contracts terminated considered to have gone through the waiver system or not? A cursory reading of the paragraph above suggests that they're not, but, OTOH, it doesn't explicitly confirm or deny that they earned UFA status "as a result of the waiver system."

 

[Urgent]

Assuming there is no cap, there is also not much of a penalty to holding onto players like Adalius Thomas until the last week of training camp.

Certainly up until drafted players are signed, the only constraint is the 80-man roster limit, and that's not hard to manage. Since the team doesn't need any cap space, and because real money doesn't change hands until the season starts, there is an incentive to hold onto players like this in hopes that some team will offer a late-round draft choice.

A trading team would pick up Adalius Thomas for a $4.9mm 2010 salary on a two-year deal ($5.9mm in 2011, per Miguel), with no penalty for an early release. Given the extreme lack of available free agents, it is possible some other team would be interested. If not, the Patriots can release him after the draft, or during training camp.

 

[pats1]

One of the things we've been suggesting is that BB might trade Adalius Thomas just to keep him away from the JEST.

Looking over the CBA, I'm not sure—not convinced, as you'll see—they can sign him easily. Here's who the top four teams can sign (emphasis mine):



Now here's the sloppiness:



So, are players who've had their contracts terminated considered to have gone through the waiver system or not? A cursory reading of the paragraph above suggests that they're not, but, OTOH, it doesn't explicitly confirm or deny that they earned UFA status "as a result of the waiver system."

Well, every player is subject to the waiver system from the trading deadline to, this year, February 8th? so the only period in question would be the one between February 8th and March 5th.

 

[Miguel]

So, are players who've had their contracts terminated considered to have gone through the waiver system or not?

Yes. 10 characters.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Yes. 10 characters.

Not to be facetious, but how do you know that?

 

[Miguel]

1.)Past experience. When teams have released a veteran before the trading deadline, those players immediately became eligible to sign with any other team. If my take is wrong, you should then be able to point to instances where a vet was released before the trading deadline and then claimed by another team on waivers.

2.) Because of what happened with Keyshawn and the Buccaneers. When 4 year and more vets like Keyshawn are released after the trading deadline, they can be claimed through the waiver process. That is why the Bucs did not release Keyshawn.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

1.)Past experience. When teams have released a veteran before the trading deadline, those players immediately became eligible to sign with any other team. If my take is wrong, you should then be able to point to instances where a vet was released before the trading deadline and then claimed by another team on waivers.

2.) Because of what happened with Keyshawn and the Buccaneers. When 4 year and more vets like Keyshawn are released after the trading deadline, they can be claimed through the waiver process. That is why the Bucs did not release Keyshawn.

You didn't actually answer my question, then.

My question is this: If a vested veteran is released at a point in time when he is not subject to the waiver wire, is he considered to have gained UFA status "as a result of the waiver system"? (The paragraph I quoted clearly states that a player released after the trade deadline is subject to the waiver system, which is why I think it's a reasonable question.)

 

[Miguel]

You didn't actually answer my question, then.

My question is this: If a vested veteran is released at a point in time when he is not subject to the waiver wire, is he considered to have gained UFA status "as a result of the waiver system"? (The paragraph I quoted clearly states that a player released after the trade deadline is subject to the waiver system, which is why I think it's a reasonable question.)

Whenever a player is released, he goes through the waiver system.

Look at the paragraph title

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Whenever a player is released, he goes through the waiver system.

Look at the paragraph title

Then why make this distinction?

(a) Whenever a player who has finished the season in which his fourth year of credited service has been earned under the Bert Bell/Pete Rozelle Plan is placed on waivers between February 1 and the trading deadline, his contract will be considered terminated . . .

If the waivers occur after [the trading deadline], the player’s Player Contract will be subject to the waiver system and may be awarded to a claiming Club. . . .

 

[spacecrime]

Then why make this distinction?

What is the conflict? There are two different conditions.

As I read it, one paragraph is for players released after the trade deadline and one released after the season. It stands to reason that players released after the trade deadline be subject to being claimed to prevent playoff bound teams from acquiring talent at the end of the season to fill injury holes.

I don't see a conflict at all, but anyway, when was the last time a quality player was released after the trade deadline? Steve martin maybe in 2002? The only players that get released after the trade deadline are for practice squad jockeying.

But either way, using your example of Adalius, the Jets could sign him. If AD is released in February, he is a free agent and they could sign him immediately. If he is released today, and clears waivers for the teams with more priority than the Jets, then they can claim him.

Exactly what is your issue? Could you explain it better?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Exactly what is your issue? Could you explain it better?

The issue is what the CBA means by "acquiring [UFA] status as a result of the NFL waiver system."

Specifically, does a player who has enough years to be an unrestricted free agent actually go through the waiver system, or is he just 'declared a free agent' without passing through the waiver system.

If it's the former, then any UFA who is released is fair game for the top four teams. If it's the latter, then the only UFAs the top four teams can sign are younger players (i.e., ones who must go through the waiver system every time they are released).

If it's the former, then the JEST could sign Adalius Thomas without restrictions if the Pats release him. If it's the latter, then they could only sign him after losing a FA who signs a larger contract than the one he signs.

 

[Miguel]

Then why make this distinction?

To highlight the difference between the two time periods.

Bottom line - A player who has enough years to be an unrestricted free agent goes through the waiver system and is declared a free agent immediately if he is released before the trading deadline.

My take is backed up by recent history.

 

[spacecrime]

Bottom line - A player who has enough years to be an unrestricted free agent goes through the waiver system and is declared a free agent immediately if he is released before the trading deadline.

Nicely worded.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

To highlight the difference between the two time periods.

Bottom line - A player who has enough years to be an unrestricted free agent goes through the waiver system and is declared a free agent immediately if he is released before the trading deadline.

My take is backed up by recent history.

Except that until a potential uncapped year, when has it made a difference whether or not they officially pass through the waiver system or not?

 

[Miguel]

Except that until a potential uncapped year, when has it made a difference whether or not they officially pass through the waiver system or not?

Johnson's time in Tampa appears over - NFL - ESPN

It always mattered in signing bonus acceleration.
"For any player removed from the Team’s roster, or whose Contract is assigned to another Club via waivers or trade, on or before June 1 in any League Year prior to the Final Capped Year, or at any time during
the Final Capped Year, any unamortized signing bonus amounts will be included in Team Salary for such League Year, except that for each League Year preceding the Final Capped Year, each Club may designate up
to two Player Contracts that, if terminated on or prior to June 1 and if not renegotiated after the last regular season game of the prior League Year, shall be treated (except to the extent prescribed by Section 7(d)(iii)
below) as if terminated on June 2, i.e., the Salary Cap charge for each such contract will remain in the Club’s Team Salary until June 2, at which time its Paragraph 5 Salary and any unearned LTBE incentives will no longer be counted and any unamortized signing bonus will be treated as set forth in Subsection (2) below. If acceleration puts a Team over the Salary Cap, the Team will have seven days to conform with the Salary Cap,
but may not sign any players until there is Room to do so under the Salary Cap."

It always mattered in determining when a released player can sign with another team.

It is only in the Waiver System Article that the CBA addresses the issue how the release of the players are supposed to be processed as regards to the waiver claim process.

 

[DaBruinz]

You didn't actually answer my question, then.

My question is this: If a vested veteran is released at a point in time when he is not subject to the waiver wire, is he considered to have gained UFA status "as a result of the waiver system"? (The paragraph I quoted clearly states that a player released after the trade deadline is subject to the waiver system, which is why I think it's a reasonable question.)

The paragraph you quoted is not applicable because, in an uncapped year, you don't earn UFA status with 4 years of service. You have to have 6 years of service.

Also, based on previous years, players do not have to clear waivers if they are released (cut/have their contract terminated) after the end of the season but prior to the start of free agency. And it hasn't mattered who they were. I believe that the waiver system is only in place from

To answer your question about the Jets. With how badly Ryan threw Thomas under the bus 2 years ago, it's unlikely that they will be talking to one another.