Brady, the OL and the OC

[mgteich]

Brady may not extend if he can't get a promise of upgrades at WR, the OL and in schemes. His body likely won't last past another year with what we have now, so what is the point of extending, other than to collect a higher 2010 paycheck? Brady has his turn at leverage now.

 

[emoney_33]

Brady may not extend if he can't get a promise of upgrades at WR, the OL and in schemes. His body likely won't last past another year with what we have now, so what is the point of extending, other than to collect a higher 2010 paycheck? Brady has his turn at leverage now.

Uhh there is not a single indication that Brady will be leaving the Patriots anytime soon. It's more of your projection on how you think Brady should feel/operate. Plus there's no doubt that they will be working to fix the WR depth.

 

[rsd]

Please add "100% Pure Conjecture" to the title

 

[mgteich]

No, there is no indication that Brady will not accept being beat up for another 3-5 years. There is also evidence that Brady would actually use the leverage that he has at the time of extension. Perhaps his agents will simply not require anything but a discounted contract and no assurances. And then again, it might snow during Training Camp.

Uhh there is not a single indication that Brady will be leaving the Patriots anytime soon. It's more of your projection on how you think Brady should feel/operate. Plus there's no doubt that they will be working to fix the WR depth.

 

[Deus Irae]

No, there is no indication that Brady will not accept being beat up for another 3-5 years.

Perhaps if Brady doesn't want to get hit he'll just start throwing the ball as quickly as most other quarterbacks do instead of holding it forever in order to wait for longer routes to open up? That would mean more focus on shorter routes, but it's not as if that would be a bad thing: it's how the team won earlier in the decade.

If nothing else, it would get people to stop blaming the offensive line for poor pass protection when that's not always the case.

 

[emoney_33]

Perhaps if Brady doesn't want to get hit he'll just start throwing the ball as quickly as most other quarterbacks do instead of holding it forever in order to wait for longer routes to open up? That would mean more focus on shorter routes, but it's not as if that would be a bad thing: it's how the team won earlier in the decade.

If nothing else, it would get people to stop blaming the offensive line for poor pass protection when that's not always the case.

I wonder how Welker can get 123 catches (while missing 3 games) when Brady refuses to look for the shorter routes.

 

[mgteich]

This takes an inclination to favor the short game, an OC who calls those schemes and plays, and more than two WR's.

Perhaps if Brady doesn't want to get hit he'll just start throwing the ball as quickly as most other quarterbacks do instead of holding it forever in order to wait for longer routes to open up? That would mean more focus on shorter routes, but it's not as if that would be a bad thing: it's how the team won earlier in the decade.

If nothing else, it would get people to stop blaming the offensive line for poor pass protection when that's not always the case.

 

[BradyManny]

Perhaps if Brady doesn't want to get hit he'll just start throwing the ball as quickly as most other quarterbacks do instead of holding it forever in order to wait for longer routes to open up? That would mean more focus on shorter routes, but it's not as if that would be a bad thing: it's how the team won earlier in the decade.

If nothing else, it would get people to stop blaming the offensive line for poor pass protection when that's not always the case.

Come on, Deus. First off, most of the routes the Patriots run are slower-developing ones - we don't run the quick stuff like the Colts do, slants, quick outs and all that. We run a lot of crossing, a lot of deep, a lot of vertical routes. Second, did you watch the Ravens game on Saturday? Manning had infinitely more time to throw than Brady did, against the same D-Line. Our O-Line has been having trouble against 4 man rushes for quite some time now. And it starts in the middle with Koppen.

When we run quick stuff, it's almost always screens. If you have an issue with the type of plays we call and routes we run, then you should direct that at BB, BOB, and yes, even Brady, but as an offensive mind who contributes to the scheme of this offense, not Brady the quarterback.

 

[Deus Irae]

This takes an inclination to favor the short game, an OC who calls those schemes and plays, and more than two WR's.

No, it doesn't. It merely takes a QB who doesn't hold onto the ball in order to clear throwing lanes, especially on slow developing plays. This became a "bad thing" the moment people started pretending that Maverick wasn't insane. Sadly, that insanity is now spreading throughout the message board and infecting previous normal posters. What was once considered to be one of Brady's best assets has been turned into a liability by posters here pushing an agenda.

Brady doesn't generally get hit as a result of the line not holding. The sack numbers are pretty conclusive in demonstrating that. Brady gets hit because his style as a QB is to hold onto the ball until the routes clear. The Patriots call plays based upon the strengths and weaknesses of the personnel, after all.

 

[mgteich]

Doesn't this include calling plays where Brady is most likely to succeed?

. The Patriots call plays based upon the strengths and weaknesses of the personnel, after all.

 

[upstater1]

Come on, Deus. First off, most of the routes the Patriots run are slower-developing ones - we don't run the quick stuff like the Colts do, slants, quick outs and all that. We run a lot of crossing, a lot of deep, a lot of vertical routes. Second, did you watch the Ravens game on Saturday? Manning had infinitely more time to throw than Brady did, against the same D-Line. Our O-Line has been having trouble against 4 man rushes for quite some time now. And it starts in the middle with Koppen.

When we run quick stuff, it's almost always screens. If you have an issue with the type of plays we call and routes we run, then you should direct that at BB, BOB, and yes, even Brady, but as an offensive mind who contributes to the scheme of this offense, not Brady the quarterback.

The Ravens rushed more men against our OL than they did against the Colts. I think having to defend Clark, Wayne, Garcon and Collie is the reason why.

When you can stick a single guy on Aiken and double Randy Moss, you can rush 5.

I saw a lot of 3 man rushes against the Colts.

 

[Jimke]

This takes an inclination to favor the short game, an OC who calls those schemes and plays, and more than two WR's.

Are you insinuating that Sam Aiken, Darnell Jenkins, Matthew Slater,

and Isaiah Stanbeck are not good wide receivers?

 

[Rob0729]

No, there is no indication that Brady will not accept being beat up for another 3-5 years. There is also evidence that Brady would actually use the leverage that he has at the time of extension. Perhaps his agents will simply not require anything but a discounted contract and no assurances. And then again, it might snow during Training Camp.

There is absolutely no evidence that Brady would use his leverage for anything at this point. Seriously, you are just speculating.

Of course the Brady wants the Pats to put him in the best position to succeed, but there is no indication that he is upset with what Belichick is doing to do so. There is no indications that he will try to force the Pats to improve in that area.

Brady may do nothing but take a long term, cap friendly deal to assure that he ends his career with the Patriots without hamstringing them from making other moves like he did with his last contract.

 

[emoney_33]

No, it doesn't. It merely takes a QB who doesn't hold onto the ball in order to clear throwing lanes, especially on slow developing plays. This became a "bad thing" the moment people started pretending that Maverick wasn't insane. Sadly, that insanity is now spreading throughout the message board and infecting previous normal posters. What was once considered to be one of Brady's best assets has been turned into a liability by posters here pushing an agenda.

Brady doesn't generally get hit as a result of the line not holding. The sack numbers are pretty conclusive in demonstrating that. Brady gets hit because his style as a QB is to hold onto the ball until the routes clear. The Patriots call plays based upon the strengths and weaknesses of the personnel, after all.

He was sacked 18 times.

2009: 18
2007: 21
2006: 29
2005: 28
2004: 26
2003: 32

So he was sacked less while having a higher completion % and your argument is that he holds on to the ball too long? WHAT THE DEUS!?

 

[Deus Irae]

Come on, Deus. First off, most of the routes the Patriots run are slower-developing ones - we don't run the quick stuff like the Colts do, slants, quick outs and all that. We run a lot of crossing, a lot of deep, a lot of vertical routes. Second, did you watch the Ravens game on Saturday? Manning had infinitely more time to throw than Brady did, against the same D-Line. Our O-Line has been having trouble against 4 man rushes for quite some time now. And it starts in the middle with Koppen.

When we run quick stuff, it's almost always screens. If you have an issue with the type of plays we call and routes we run, then you should direct that at BB, BOB, and yes, even Brady, but as an offensive mind who contributes to the scheme of this offense, not Brady the quarterback.

Manning runs timing patterns and throws the football to 5 legitimate receivers on any and all downs (3 WRS, a TE and a RB).

Brady runs read routes, and chooses to focus on just 2 receivers, except on 3rd down where he focuses on 3 receviers (2 WRs and a RB). There's no question that the Patriots were very weak at WR this season. The schemes and OL, however, were not the problem.

Also, Brady wasn't Brady this season, with regards to his work in the pocket, as the Suggs strip sack in the Baltimore playoff game demonstrated.

 

[Deus Irae]

Doesn't this include calling plays where Brady is most likely to succeed?

Given that Brady has input on plays and designs, I'd expect that it does. Are you of the belief that Brady is calling for plays that are designed for him to fail?

 

[emoney_33]

Manning runs timing patterns and throws the football to 5 legitimate receivers on any and all downs (3 WRS, a TE and a RB).

Brady runs read routes, and chooses to focus on just 2 receivers, except on 3rd down where he focuses on 3 receviers (2 WRs and a RB). There's no question that the Patriots were very weak at WR this season. The schemes and OL, however, were not the problem.

Also, Brady wasn't Brady this season, with regards to his work in the pocket, as the Suggs strip sack in the Baltimore playoff game demonstrated.

The deterioration of Deus as a poster is sad to watch.

Brady had NO ONE else to throw to except for 2 WRS. You want him to force it to Aiken to please your desire to see the ball spread out? He was forced to throw it to other receivers against the Ravens, and LOOK what happened. INTs and turnovers galore.

And I just love you picking and choosing one play to 'prove' your hypothesis on an entire season's worth of play. Deus, please come back!

 

[mgteich]

This comment deserves another whole thread. But you have indeed hit an important point. TOM BRADY deserves a lot of the congrats and blame for offensive schemes and playcalling, perhaps more than Obrien, his lapdog that we criticize because we don't have the cajones to consider any fault on Brady's part.

Given that Brady has input on plays and designs, I'd expect that it does. Are you of the belief that Brady is calling for plays that are designed for him to fail?

 

[emoney_33]

This comment deserves another whole thread. But you have indeed hit an important point. TOM BRADY deserves a lot of the congrats and blame for offensive schemes and playcalling, perhaps more than Obrien, his lapdog that we criticize because we don't have the cajones to consider any fault on Brady's part.

It's a pretty big assumption to call Obrien (or anyone), Brady's lapdog.

I'm not sure exactly what everyone thinks went wrong in the overall design of the schemes. Yea there were some issues in the 4th quarter, but overall the offense had a very good year given all the circumstances.

 

[mgteich]

After the first half, what circumstances are you talking about?

It's a pretty big assumption to call Obrien (or anyone), Brady's lapdog.

I'm not sure exactly what everyone thinks went wrong in the overall design of the schemes. Yea there were some issues in the 4th quarter, but overall the offense had a very good year given all the circumstances.