See what a fresh approach can do on D

[BelichickFan]

Because we root for the team. I care for the team more than any particular individual involved in it. Sometimes that means cheering for schmucks. But it's the team they represent that I care about, so my respect for those individuals is irrelevant. How else can you be a fan for decades? I'm from New England and I will root for the Patriots until I die or they move away from the area.

I'm not from NE (although I lived in Ct. for 4 years pre-school) so I don't have to be locked into rooting for guys I detest. I fully understand what you're saying but I wouldn't waste my time and energy on schmucks.

 

[R_T26]

The Jets have invested a lot of money and draft picks to build that front seven. Ellis, Thomas, and Harris were all first round picks. The Jets paid top dollar for Pace and Scott. Revis was also first round picks in the secondary. Jenkins was arguably their second best player on defense after Revis (who might be the best defensive player in football right now), but let's not act like the whole Jets defense was devoid of talent other than Jenkins. The Jets have a lot of talent on their defense, far more than the Pats right now.

I think scheme may be part of their success, but they definitely have the players to run that defense.

This post proves my original point. This jets defense is pretty much the same talent as last years.

Difference-one was coached by a bb errand boy where the team played tight and safe and faded down the stretch, the other by a fat slob who motivates his players and lets them play free.

Mcdaniels too, his team faded down the stretch cause they were tight an he was too busy suspendind his best players.

 

[Rob0729]

that offense was more to do with talent then playcalling. When stallworth and gaffney are your 3rd and 4th wr's, your doing pretty good. And cassel had an undefeated team around him and a ridiculous easy schedule.

Even mcdaniels got figured out half way through his first year.

The team almost seems foreign to me this year, they were so predictable this year and destroyed the pats mytique. Remember pats dont lose back to back, dont talk trash to the pats, pats dont lose in december, bb and brady dont lose in the playoffs at home. Wont hetr this anymore.

BS! No one gives McDaniels credit for what he did. This offense this year was the same as the previous two except they lost Gaffney. So are you saying Gaffney was the MVP of the offense in 2007 and 2008? Who else was on last year's offense who wasn't on it this year? Gaffney is the only player on both the 2007 and 2008 offense who weren't here this year.

Stallworth was on the Pats in 2008? Someone should have told him to stop going to Browns games on Sunday. Brady was playing last year too with Cassel.? Must have missed that one too.

So let's recap. The 2007 was the best offense in history despite poor coaching because of talent and anyone could run that offense. So the only way to fix the Pats defense that is failing is not so much the talent, but changing the scheme and getting the right coordinator? So offense is all about talent and defense is all about coaching? Really?!?

 

[AJY the Jets troll]

The Jets have the best scheme in the league, bar none. And they maximize the talent that they have. Revis is the best player in the league but the rest of the guys are solid to above average. Outside of the injured Jenkins they don't have any other dominating defenders, just very good ones that are being utilized to max out their potential.

 

[The_Riddler]

The Jets have the best scheme in the league, bar none. And they maximize the talent that they have. Revis is the best player in the league but the rest of the guys are solid to above average. Outside of the injured Jenkins they don't have any other dominating defenders, just very good ones that are being utilized to max out their potential.

Thank you for making my point !

 

[ATippett56]

So offense is all about talent and defense is all about coaching? Really?!?

The New England Patriots definitely need a youth movement at outside linebacker. Calling Shawn Crable! Are you there Shawn Crable? Will you play in the regular season Shawn Crable?

 

[The_Riddler]

The New England Patriots definitely need a youth movement at outside linebacker. Calling Shawn Crable! Are you there Shawn Crable? Will you play in the regular season Shawn Crable?

I doubt it, if he so much as even coughs incorrectly, he's a threat for a BB IR

 

[patsfan-1982]

i love the wey the jets and the cowboys play D there attacking style


but as much as we hate. BB's bend but don't brake defense. it has proven to win 5 super bowls. been to one more SB and two AFC champ games that i can think of off the top of my head. with the jets g man and pats


if BB can find the players that they need to run he's system in the draft this D can be good again.


i know every one is pissed because the jets are still playing with a garbage. QB but because they have a great D and a good runing game there are playing and the pats are watching. you have to give it to rex ryan, he's got the jets playing like a team offense. defense. and ST something the pats never did at any point this year when the offense was good the D sucked when the D was good the offense was a joke and on ST the kick and punt return game was one of the worst in the NFL



but the pats still have a hall of fame QB and one of the best coachs in the NFL if the pats wise up. and start to pay some of there own stars and stop tradeing back in the draft for roster fillers. and start to draft a few impact players on both sides of the ball. they can win at lest one more SB befor brady, calls it a end.

 

[Kontradiction]

I can't stand Rex-ausauras more than the next guy, but I guarantee you that he could have taken our current defense, with the athletic youth and speed that we have and made it into one heck of a defense.

Sure we didn't have an edge guy like Pace (can anyone say Clay Matthews?), but we do have a TBC and a Mayo, a Guyton and a pretty solid D-line that Rex would have maximized into a pretty good defense. It's the scheme, the coach, that's where it all starts. I look at that Jets front 7 and I am not overly impressed, they're good, but I wouldn't call them great. Rex has made them great. Give the man credit. He's a much better defensive coach than BB is right now, I think we all have to agree with that.

Rex's players would run through a brickwall for him, I question whether our players would do that for BB. I am wondering if his act his getting old in the lockerroom. That flat team out on that field against the Ravens was alarming.

Rex wouldn't be able to work with our defense because we run a COMPLETELY different scheme than he likes. We would have to implement his scheme and the players to make it work.

 

[MassPats38]

that offense was more to do with talent then playcalling. When stallworth and gaffney are your 3rd and 4th wr's, your doing pretty good. And cassel had an undefeated team around him and a ridiculous easy schedule.

Even mcdaniels got figured out half way through his first year.

The team almost seems foreign to me this year, they were so predictable this year and destroyed the pats mytique. Remember pats dont lose back to back, dont talk trash to the pats, pats dont lose in december, bb and brady dont lose in the playoffs at home. Wont hetr this anymore.

Was this "mystique" there last year? I will not claim to know if the problem lies in the coordinators, talent, injuries or personalities, but teams rise and fall at given points in time. You have two IR guys, Tate and Mackenzie, who might make a difference but we don't know. You have an acknowledged difference maker, Mayo, who was injured or recovering from an injury for much of the season. Throw in a loss of the old guard, Bruschi, Vrabel and Harrison, and you have a different team dynamic. Throw in Brady coming off a year absence, working to get his game back together after a major injury. Add the loss of McDaniels, who made a team expected to tank by most overachieve to some extent with huge changes, meaning he is probably not a lousy coach, and you have fairly sweeping changes across the board.

If you were posting here last season, the general complaint was the D had to get younger. Well, it did, and that usually means a step back to take a few steps forward. You don't just flip a switch. The Pats finished 10-6, which is not awful by NFL standards. Was the playcalling perfect? No. Did the players execute schemes perfectly? No. Is there room for improvement? Absolutely. Can this team improve? I believe it can. Success is the intersection of talent and coaching. BB can coach, even at his "advanced" age (as if a coach in his 50s suddenly has lost a step mentally), but he cannot do everything on offense and defense. Even he can use help. The offense that worked so well two years ago may be figured out as some contend, but it may also be a fraction of a step slower, or a fraction of an inch of the mark, meaning adding the right talent and execution can make it potent again. Everyone claiming the offense is "figured out" probably needs to look at the Colts, which is doing the same things the same way with the same success. If that offense has been radically changed, other than plugging in new personnel, I cannot see it, yet it still works fine.

 

[Patjew]

I'm not from NE (although I lived in Ct. for 4 years pre-school) so I don't have to be locked into rooting for guys I detest. I fully understand what you're saying but I wouldn't waste my time and energy on schmucks.

We have very different perspectives on being fans of a team, but I think that's OK. If I remember correctly your fandhood followed Belichick to the Pats from Cleveland, right?

 

[ATippett56]

I doubt it, if he so much as even coughs incorrectly, he's a threat for a BB IR

The New England Patriots have four picks in the first two rounds. I fully expect two of picks to be 3-4 outside linebackers. It's about time Belichick stop looking for the perfect specimen to play outside linebacker and select the best potential linebacker on the board.

 

[BelichickFan]

We have very different perspectives on being fans of a team, but I think that's OK. If I remember correctly your fandhood followed Belichick to the Pats from Cleveland, right?

Yeah, although a little indirectly as the Browns moved and the Patriots were already my second favorite team.

 

[Patjew]

Yeah, although a little indirectly as the Browns moved and the Patriots were already my second favorite team.

That was convenient! You chose a good guy to follow.

 

[BelichickFan]

That was convenient! You chose a good guy to follow.

My wife was a Patriots fan, she wanted her own team and felt sorry for the Patriots in the McPherson years. So I rooted for them as my second team - although the playoff game in '94 was a little rough - and they became #1 when the Browns moved. Then Belichick showed up as an assistant and I was a Patriots fan. I DID NOT follow Bill to NY, it just worked out that he became HC here. You just have to follow your heart and go where it takes you.

 

[upstater1]

yeah there's nothing wrong with criticism - been a pats fan since the 3rd grade when i saw a bledsoe poster and thought it was cool (im 23 now) - and i gotta say however that im not sure if its the scheme but its the lack of character of the players - the fire isnt there, as much as you may hate to hear the loud mouths like ray lewis or players like him - they do make the team better.

as far as BB goes - he will always be the same, and i dont know how his efforts work behind the scenes in building confidence or being a ra-ra guy. but as much as i hate rex ryan the guy just exudes confidence and arrogance which spills into the locker room and the players seem to be playing with balls this year. BB doesnt HAVE to, and he wont do this because thats not him. But we DO need SOMEONE in the organization to do this

There are 32 teams in the league.

There's a lot of roster turnover each year.

You have to have patience.

Since 1997, there have been 13 or 14 Super Bowls. The Patriots have played in 5 of them, and Belichick has been the D mastermind of all those teams. How many times did talent turn over over that span?

3 times at least, and now we're seeing the defense turnover talent for the 4th time.

 

[condon84]

I guess I just see it different from others - and I didn't mean any disrespect to anyone; for me, the Patriots have to earn me as a fan; I don't owe it to them and if I thought they were being run by mediocre, or less, people, I would root for someone else. Not in the sense of being a front runner but I'd move on with, say, Pioli if I liked him and though the Krafts and Belichick were clueless. Why someone would spend emotional energy rooting for someone they have no respect for is mysterious to me.

The Pats have to earn you as a fan?

I'm a Pats fan regardless of how they're playing. I'll criticize when they make dumb moves, applaud when they make good moves, but will always cheer them on when they play.

As for the thread subject....I agree. It reallys does look like other teams have figured us out and know how to attack our D.

 

[BelichickFan]

The Pats have to earn you as a fan?

Absolutely. I understand the "fan for life" thing but I don't buy it for myself. If you had an owner running the team into the ground would you lay out $40 for parking and $80+ for tickets every week ? I know I wouldn't.

 

[Rob0729]

This post proves my original point. This jets defense is pretty much the same talent as last years.

Difference-one was coached by a bb errand boy where the team played tight and safe and faded down the stretch, the other by a fat slob who motivates his players and lets them play free.

Mcdaniels too, his team faded down the stretch cause they were tight an he was too busy suspendind his best players.

Bart Scott was on the Jets last year? Jim Leonhard? Marquis Douglas? All three are starters who followed Ryan from the Ravens this past offseason. How about Lito Sheppard who starts at right CB and was traded to the Jets this past offseason. That is four new starters from last year. Add to the fact that David Harris was playing hurt last year and wasn't himself and Sione Pouha who replaced Jenkins. So five of the 11 starters on defense were not starters on last year's defense and four of them weren't even on the team last year. So other than more than a third of the starters being different, the Jets defense is exactly the same.

The Jets were a Colts playing their starters the entire game away from missing the playoffs.

You do realize that with Belichick's errand boy in McDaniels, the Pats made the AFC Championships in 2006 and went 18-1 and was one dropped interception from Asante Samuel away from going 19-0? But real logic doesn't support your ridiculous claim.

 

[Rob0729]

The New England Patriots definitely need a youth movement at outside linebacker. Calling Shawn Crable! Are you there Shawn Crable? Will you play in the regular season Shawn Crable?

I think talent needs to be upgraded at several positions. I think Belichick's scheme will work just fine with better talent. Obviously the talent wasn't there. I expect the Pats to be agressive to improve the talent on the defense this offseason.

If Patricia is closer to McDaniels than O'Brien in terms how fast he gets up to speed next season, this team could have an 180 turaround on defense quickly.