How big is a tight end to an offense? - Just look at this Sunday's games

[mgteich]

Yes, those playing today have receiving threats today who are TE's. Welker was our option over the middle. Wasn't that good enough? The patriots chose to focus on a slot receiver instead of a TE and had one of the best passing games in the league. The patriots had four problems in their passing game, and none involved any lack of talent at TE.

PROBLEMS
lack of talented second speed wideout opposite Moss
brady's health
an injured OL
poor play calling in the second half

And with this, we still had one of the best passing games in the nfl

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Yes, those playing today have receiving threats today who are TE's. Welker was our option over the middle. Wasn't that good enough? The patriots chose to focus on a slot receiver instead of a TE and had one of the best passing games in the league. The patriots had four problems in their passing game, and none involved any lack of talent at TE.

PROBLEMS
lack of talented second speed wideout opposite Moss
brady's health
an injured OL
poor play calling in the second half

And with this, we still had one of the best passing games in the nfl

The Pats Passing game in 09 may look great on the stat sheet but we were not actually lighting up the scoreboard every game,when it came down to TDs they got hard to get as the season progressed and we faced good teams.

 

[mgteich]

As I sais at the time (asn now), I care much more about winning against the division than in the game against NO and INDY.

However, I do find it useful to consider what we needed in the playoffs, and a TE instead of Welker wasn't it.

The Pats Passing game in 09 may look great on the stat sheet but we were not actually lighting up the scoreboard every game,when it came down to TDs they got hard to get as the season progressed and we faced good teams.

 

[TriplecHamp]

As I sais at the time (asn now), I care much more about winning against the division than in the game against NO and INDY.

However, I do find it useful to consider what we needed in the playoffs, and a TE instead of Welker wasn't it.

I remember two division games where we got SHUT DOWN in the second half. Why all this talk of a TE instead of Welker and not a TE with Welker? Lets get real here, in games where Moss was a non factor, on third down who did teams look to cover? WELKER. A TE is just as valuable if not more valuable than a third option at wideout. Teams cannot cover a legit TE and Welker as well as double Moss.

 

[mgteich]

We had TWO legitimate TE threats. Both had key TD catches during the season. Our problem was that we needed 6 or 7 OL's to defend Brady, so the TE's were forever assigned as blockers.

I remember two division games where we got SHUT DOWN in the second half. Why all this talk of a TE instead of Welker and not a TE with Welker? Lets get real here, in games where Moss was a non factor, on third down who did teams look to cover? WELKER. A TE is just as valuable if not more valuable than a third option at wideout. Teams cannot cover a legit TE and Welker as well as double Moss.

 

[Deus Irae]

Do people here not realize that New England had a receiving tight end in Ben Watson, but chose not to use him in that manner?

5 O-linemen
1 QB

That's 6 spots off the board, leaving 5.

WR1
WR2

That's your two outside receivers, leaving three spots left.

Now, you've got options here. New England has gone with a WR3 in Welker, leaving 2 spots left.

Unless you're emptying out your backfield on every play, you're going to want a running back. That leaves 1 spot.

So, the question then really breaks down to a choice:

WR4
TE
FB

All of them would serve a function, but they'd be different functions. No matter how you slice it, though, you're looking at the final option for the QB reads in the New England offense as long as Faulk and Welker are around.

 

[TriplecHamp]

We had TWO legitimate TE threats. Both had key TD catches during the season. Our problem was that we needed 6 or 7 OL's to defend Brady, so the TE's were forever assigned as blockers.

Chris Baker and Ben Watson are now legitimate threats? Good Solid Tight ends? Yes. Legitimate threats? No. Antonio Gates is a legitimate threat, Dallas Clark is a legitimate threat, Jason Witten? Brent Celek? Tony Gonzales? Are all legitimate threats and the stats, and their play on the field show it.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Do people here not realize that New England had a receiving tight end in Ben Watson, but chose not to use him in that manner?

5 O-linemen
1 QB

That's 6 spots off the board, leaving 5.

WR1
WR2

That's your two outside receivers, leaving three spots left.

Now, you've got options here. New England has gone with a WR3 in Welker, leaving 2 spots left.

Unless you're emptying out your backfield on every play, you're going to want a running back. That leaves 1 spot.

So, the question then really breaks down to a choice:

WR4
TE
FB

All of them would serve a function, but they'd be different functions. No matter how you slice it, though, you're looking at the final option for the QB reads in the New England offense as long as Faulk and Welker are around.

Maybe in a Bill O'Brien Offense with Ben Watson at TE but if we had a Jason Witten type TE he could be as viable of an option as Welker.

 

[mgteich]

Ok. tHE ONLY legitimate threats are probowlers and we need at 25 probowlers in order to win.

Chris Baker and Ben Watson are now legitimate threats? Good Solid Tight ends? Yes. Legitimate threats? No. Antonio Gates is a legitimate threat, Dallas Clark is a legitimate threat, Jason Witten? Brent Celek? Tony Gonzales? Are all legitimate threats and the stats, and their play on the field show it.

 

[Deus Irae]

Maybe in a Bill O'Brien Offense with Ben Watson at TE but if we had a Jason Witten type TE he could be as viable of an option as Welker.

1.) There's not a tight end in the NFL that's as good an option as Welker.

2.) There has never been a tight end in the NFL that was as good an option as Welker.

The tight end advantage comes into play with blocking, not receiving.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ok. tHE ONLY legitimate threats are probowlers and we need at 25 probowlers in order to win.

While I would agree with the notion that Watson can still be a receiving threat, and that he's demonstrated that to us over the course of his career including last season, Baker, since joining the Patriots, has shown me nothing that makes me believe he's of significant use as a receiver anywhere other than plays near the goal line.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

1.) There's not a tight end in the NFL that's as good an option as Welker.

2.) There has never been a tight end in the NFL that was as good an option as Welker.

The tight end advantage comes into play with blocking, not receiving.

\

I would prefer to see blocking assigned to a fullback or a two back set rather than a TE in an offense that had only 2 legitimate threats at WR.

Not having a fullback is not helping with Brady finding targets to throw to.

Expect a fullback drafted in the latter rounds...possibly 6 or 7

Cory Jackson of Maryland is on my hope list..He is a pretty good blocker and not too bad a runner

Greg Boone from VTU might be a decent NFL TE

 

[TriplecHamp]

1.) There's not a tight end in the NFL that's as good an option as Welker.

2.) There has never been a tight end in the NFL that was as good an option as Welker.

The tight end advantage comes into play with blocking, not receiving.

I said "Viable" as in capable of proving worthy. Now of Course Welker is a better than a TE because hes a slot receiver. When you have a tight end that can stretch the field over the middle he becomes just as capable of doing the job as Welker is. What I'm trying to say is a TE Threat would prove very useful in our passing game.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Ok. tHE ONLY legitimate threats are probowlers and we need at 25 probowlers in order to win.

How many pro bowls has Brent Celek been to?

 

[Deus Irae]

I said "Viable" as in capable of proving worthy. Now of Course Welker is a better than a TE because hes a slot receiver. When you have a tight end that can stretch the field over the middle he becomes just as capable of doing the job as Welker is. What I'm trying to say is a TE Threat would prove very useful in our passing game.

Watson is clearly viable under your definition.

 

[satz]

I read a few responses where people want to run 2 receivers in the short area where wes works. How many interceptions have we seen because 2 receivers are in the same place leading to 2-3 defensive players in the same area.

If we put a TE and WES in the small area look for 2 more defenders in the same area leading to tonne of turnover.

Wes did line up outside where he is not fast enough to run away or break off from a corner and actually got beatup quite a bit. His speciality is quickness and putting outside in space with a CB is a sure way to shut his production down.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Watson is clearly viable under your definition.

But hes not a threat.