Big Mac finally comes clean

[dalero]

If people actually understood that Steroids gave McGwire and other athletes an unfair competitive advantage and helped them hit more home runs, there wouldn't have to be threads like this.[/QUOTE]

Two words. Brady Anderson

 

[ausbacker]

Thanks for noting the other red herring... "the real reason they were banned was because of health concerns."

Yes - they have adverse health impacts - which must obviously mean the decision to ban them has nothing to do with an unfair competitive advantage - all of which somehow makes it more acceptable.

So you actually THINK that if a "safe steroid" were developed competive sports would have no problem with those or other performance enhancing drugs and make them legal again??????

But to your main point, you're correct.

If people actually understood that Steroids gave McGwire and other athletes an unfair competitive advantage and helped them hit more home runs, there wouldn't have to be threads like this.

You know, you are coming across a bit smug.. or perhaps I am just misreading the tone of your posts.

Steroids were never legislated against to restrict their performance enhance capabilities. They were legislated against because people were abusing them and dying from massive heart attacks.

 

[scout]

Are you people freakin' insane? Steroids don't help you hit home runs. Kind of like guns don't kill, bullets do.
Semantics. It wasn't steroids that helped Rafael Palmeiro go from a single hitter to a power hitter, it was his recovery and work outs.........got it.
As for Big Mac, maybe if he had told the truth in front of Congress he'd be going to the HOF.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Are you people freakin' insane? Steroids don't help you hit home runs. Kind of like guns don't kill, bullets do.
Semantics. It wasn't steroids that helped Rafael Palmeiro go from a single hitter to a power hitter, it was his recovery and work outs.........got it.
As for Big Mac, maybe if he had told the truth in front of Congress he'd be going to the HOF.

The list of steroids people ... the one's on record as doing it ... one heck of an all star team for sure. How much extra did they make thanks to the roids?

 

[JoeSixPat]

You know, you are coming across a bit smug.. or perhaps I am just misreading the tone of your posts.

Steroids were never legislated against to restrict their performance enhance capabilities. They were legislated against because people were abusing them and dying from massive heart attacks.

Um - yeah... it's the health concerns that everyone's all riled up about when it comes to steroids.

It's got nothing to do with the fact that they are a

PERFORMANCE

ENHANCING

DRUG

that

ENHANCES

PERFORMANCE


it's the health concerns...

So when exactly did they prohibit athletes from smoking cigarettes? Those cause thousands of times more heart attacks than steroids.

I can just see it now... McGwire comes clean... he once was a closet smoker.

And of course the defenders... "Well, smoking cigarettes doesn't help him hit home runs (unlike STEROIDS!)"

It's kindof tough to believe this has to be spelled out for people!

 

[ausbacker]

Um - yeah... it's the health concerns that everyone's all riled up about when it comes to steroids.

It's got nothing to do with the fact that they are a

PERFORMANCE

ENHANCING

DRUG

that

ENHANCES

PERFORMANCE


it's the health concerns...

So when exactly did they prohibit athletes from smoking cigarettes? Those cause thousands of times more heart attacks than steroids.

I can just see it now... McGwire comes clean... he once was a closet smoker.

And of course the defenders... "Well, smoking cigarettes doesn't help him hit home runs (unlike STEROIDS!)"

It's kindof tough to believe this has to be spelled out for people!

Are you plainly that ******* stupid that you don't realise I am saying when steroids were legislated against (you know when they first became illegal to use) with world anti-doping bodies, it wasn't because they were performance enhancing, it was the amount of deaths and associated health issue that were being attributed to their abuse?

The sporting bodies around the world were not worried about their athletes "cheating".. they were worried about them dying.

**** me seriously.

 

[Synovia]

If people actually understood that Steroids gave McGwire and other athletes an unfair competitive advantage and helped them hit more home runs, there wouldn't have to be threads like this.

Two words. Brady Anderson[/QUOTE]

So, why exactly did Brady Anderson get off the roids the next year?

 

[Synovia]

Are you plainly that ******* stupid that you don't realise I am saying when steroids were legislated against (you know when they first became illegal to use) with world anti-doping bodies, it wasn't because they were performance enhancing, it was the amount of deaths and associated health issue that were being attributed to their abuse?

The sporting bodies around the world were not worried about their athletes "cheating".. they were worried about them dying.

**** me seriously.

Right. There are plenty of things that are completely legal and increase performance (Creatine for one).

 

[Synovia]

Fine with me, cheating bastards or gambling bastards should not be involved in Pro Sports, McGuire made a mockery of the game.. and the only reason he offers this half azzed confession is for a freaking job...

BTW do not give a rats azz about the Cuban Team from 50 years ago, because they did this it makes it ok???

No, the point is, McGuire was one of THOUSANDS of players in MLB taking them, and he made no more a mockery of the game than any of those.

The idea that this is just a handful of players is absurd.

 

[Synovia]

If people actually understood that Steroids gave McGwire and other athletes an unfair competitive advantage and helped them hit more home runs, there wouldn't have to be threads like this.

Unfair against who? They've been widespread, in both pitchers and position players, since the 50s. Theres a good chance Marris was on them.

 

[scout]

Unfair against who? They've been widespread, in both pitchers and position players, since the 50s. Theres a good chance Marris was on them.

Dude, you just threw Roger Maris under the bus. "There's a good chance Marris was on them". Any particular evidence to support you claim, or was he just ahead of the curve? Heck, Ruth's numbers were absurd. If you look at the number of home runs he hit versus the total for each team, you would have to conclude he was on something besides hot dogs and beer.

 

[Synovia]

Dude, you just threw Roger Maris under the bus. "There's a good chance Marris was on them". Any particular evidence to support you claim, or was he just ahead of the curve? Heck, Ruth's numbers were absurd. If you look at the number of home runs he hit versus the total for each team, you would have to conclude he was on something besides hot dogs and beer.

Well, they weren't available when Ruth was playing. That being said, Ruth has been reported to have eaten various different animals testicles to "gain their strength", so I'm pretty sure he would have taken shots if he could.

As to Marris, they were widely available, and being openly taken in football, so I don't see why there'd be no use in baseball. Especially when several players on his team went down that year with weird infections (like Mantle)

 

[ausbacker]

Right. There are plenty of things that are completely legal and increase performance (Creatine for one).

You've completely missed the point. Gatorade is performance enhancing. A vitamin C tablet is performance enhancing. Vitamin B injections are performance enhancing. None have been indirectly related to deaths in athletes as anabolic agents are suggested.

 

[IcyPatriot]

No, the point is, McGuire was one of THOUSANDS of players in MLB taking them, and he made no more a mockery of the game than any of those.

The idea that this is just a handful of players is absurd.

The MLB has thousands of players ...

 

[Synovia]

You've completely missed the point. Gatorade is performance enhancing. A vitamin C tablet is performance enhancing. Vitamin B injections are performance enhancing. None have been indirectly related to deaths in athletes as anabolic agents are suggested.

So, its not about being performance enhancing, its about being dangerous?


Or, do you mean like Amphetemines, which they just banned this year, which are both dangerous and performance enhancing, and almost every single player in MLB was taking.

 

[Synovia]

The MLB has thousands of players ...

Yeah, it does, considering that the use is just as rampant in the Minors, and the teams are owned by MLB teams. Its also been going on for 50+ years, so yeah, thousands of players.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Ummm - I think we need an entire new thread to explain to folks some significant differences between Steroids and other substances - including Vitamins, Minerals and other basic elements of good nutrition.

Frankly it's a bit embarrassing to me that some Patsfans aren't able to grasp the difference.

And if you think it's only the adverse health effects, I'm sure I could cite more than a few Vitamins and minerals which, taken in a high enough dose, would cause health problems or even death.

Heck - by your definition of "performance enhancing" substances, Oxygen is no different than an Anabolic steroid! (No doubt bolstering your argument: "Well, MLB hasn't banned Oxygen! Therefore Steroids are actually OK!")

In any event, I'm sure some of you are lamenting that Carlton Fisk didn't happen to read your explanation of why Performance Enhancing Drugs don't actually Enhance Performance before he went off on his diatribe of why Steroids gave such players an unfair advantage:

Hall of Famer Carlton Fisk blasts Mark McGwire for saying steroids didn't give slugger a boost

 

[ausbacker]

So, its not about being performance enhancing, its about being dangerous?


Or, do you mean like Amphetemines, which they just banned this year, which are both dangerous and performance enhancing, and almost every single player in MLB was taking.

Ummm - I think we need an entire new thread to explain to folks some significant differences between Steroids and other substances - including Vitamins, Minerals and other basic elements of good nutrition.

Frankly it's a bit embarrassing to me that some Patsfans aren't able to grasp the difference.

And if you think it's only the adverse health effects, I'm sure I could cite more than a few Vitamins and minerals which, taken in a high enough dose, would cause health problems or even death.

Heck - by your definition of "performance enhancing" substances, Oxygen is no different than an Anabolic steroid! (No doubt bolstering your argument: "Well, MLB hasn't banned Oxygen! Therefore Steroids are actually OK!")

In any event, I'm sure some of you are lamenting that Carlton Fisk didn't happen to read your explanation of why Performance Enhancing Drugs don't actually Enhance Performance before he went off on his diatribe of why Steroids gave such players an unfair advantage:

Hall of Famer Carlton Fisk blasts Mark McGwire for saying steroids didn't give slugger a boost

It absolute baffles me the lack in comprehension on this board regarding this issue. I'm not suggesting when performance enhancing agents were banned in baseball, I've been talking about performance enhancing agents being banned at Olympic level sports because more often than not, that's where they are first exposed and tests developed.

At absolutely no point have I said it's not about being performance enhancing in today's environment because it is. When anabolic agents were in their infancy, the sporting bodies legislated against steroids because they were killing their athletes. Are you guys really that simple that this point has completely gone over your heads?

Having been involved in Olympic level programs personally, I think I'm qualified to pass comment on performance enhancing substances, their use, abuse and history given how many talks, seminars and papers I've been forced to read or attend. I purposely avoided making this point earlier, but I feel I have too illustrate it now.

It's not the rest of the world's fault for the slow uptake in substance banning American's employ in their domestic sports leagues.

It's scary when people have a small amount of knowledge and pretend to make it a big amount.

 

[Synovia]

Hall of Famer Carlton Fisk blasts Mark McGwire for saying steroids didn't give slugger a boost

You mean, Carlton Fisk, who, after never having hit more than about 25 home runs, goes and hits 37 at age 37.

Yeah, I'm sure he was clean.

 

[JoeSixPat]

You mean, Carlton Fisk, who, after never having hit more than about 25 home runs, goes and hits 37 at age 37.

Yeah, I'm sure he was clean.

The bottom line - and one which you conveniently ignore - is the fact that you've got guys like Fisk and other MLB players openly mocking your argument that performance enhancing drugs don't enhance performance

I assume you've got about as much evidence of Fisk taking steroids as you do in accusing Roger Maris of taking steroids as well?

Yeah, I'm sure everyone around here has a lot of respect for your accusations at this point... nicely done.

Is your source the same guy that told you that Fisk never hit more than 25 home runs when he did so in four different seasons?