Where do the Pats need new starting-class players?

[Fencer]

Obviously, a lot depends on which veterans do or don't stay. But here's my list of immediate needs, in order of certainty rather than importance:

1. OLB. Mayo is a good starting ILB, TBC is a good passing-down rusher, and BB evidently thinks Guyton will be good. But at least one new OLB is needed, and maybe more.

2. Speed WR. What we have at speed WR are Moss and Tate, period. Even in a best-case scenario for Tate, it would be good to have a third one behind them, given Moss's age.

3. DE. The Pats have two excellent 3-4 DL in Wilfork and Warren. Moving Wilfork to DE and putting, say, Pryor at NT isn't a good base-case idea. Neither is relying on Burgess or Green as an every-down starter. Somebody new starter-class is needed.

4. RG. Anybody who publicly speculates about retirement like Stephen Neal did will be gone soon, even if not immediately.

Plus, of course, replacements for any of Wilfork (the horror), Mankins, Watson, et al. who leave. And punter, but that's not really a "starting" type of position the way kicker is.

 

[neuronet]

Offensive line.

 

[Kontradiction]

You did a pretty good job of it. Here is my list, in no particular order...

1. DE - Need someone that can replace Richard Seymour. Should be able to take up two blockers to free up the OLB and also make his presence felt in the run game.

2. OG - Regardless of whether or not Stephen Neal returns. Connolly is not a starter at the guard position. Perhaps Kaczur would be able to slide in with Vollmer starting at RT, but we're going to need to draft an OG anyway for the future. Might as well do it this year.

3. OLB - Do I even need to say anything here? We don't know what we have in Crable yet, but we can't take a chance. I don't think AD is going to be back next season. TBC has been good in pass rushing circumstances, but has still be a bit of a liability against the run. In this case, we could probably stand to pick up two OLB's. One of them, at the very least, should be an every down OLB... one that can rush the passer and set the edge.

4. ILB - Like Crable at OLB, we have McKenzie but we don't know what we have in him yet. On top of that, he spent the season on IR. Personally, I would like to see Dansby with a Flying Elvis on his helmet, chillin' next to Mayo.

5. Fullback - Seeing as this team doesn't have one. A lead blocker fullback would greatly improve the running game. We would be able to return to the I-Formation which would give us another wrinkle in the offense and also, help open up the play action even more.

6. WR3 - Again, this addition goes without saying. Brady, Moss, and Welker would all see improvement with the addition of a WR that can beat single coverage enough to demand double coverage at times.

We could also stand to beef up our kick coverage teams.

 

[Deus Irae]

Defense:

CB (x2 if Bodden isn't re-signed)
OLB (x2)
ILB
DE


Offense:
WR
TE (I don't expect Watson back at this point)
OG
FB
RB (if Maroney doesn't come back)


This could also be the year the team looks to get a new punter.

 

[bucky]

Here's my list...

OLB - pretty obvious. AD is done and Woods, Ninkovich, etc. are not starters.

OLB #2 - TBC should not be an every down player.

DE - another obvious one. Need a pass rushing DL to replace Seymour and the over-the-hill Jarvis.

S - I've said this before, but 1 INT out of Sanders, McGowan, and Chung combined is not "starting" caliber. If Chung is that guy, he'll have to make a big leap in the offseason.

WR - need a physical, possession WR, a Givens/Gaffney type. Kevin Walter comes to mind.

WR#2 - Don't know what's wrong with Moss, but I wouldn't be shocked to see him gone and replaced by a speed guy.

ILB - this is a tough one. BB obviously likes Mayo and Guyton, but Mayo was a major disappointment this year and Guyton seems like a part-timer to me.

 

[The Dynasty]

Here's my list...

OLB - pretty obvious. AD is done and Woods, Ninkovich, etc. are not starters.

OLB #2 - TBC should not be an every down player.

DE - another obvious one. Need a pass rushing DL to replace Seymour and the over-the-hill Jarvis.

S - I've said this before, but 1 INT out of Sanders, McGowan, and Chung combined is not "starting" caliber. If Chung is that guy, he'll have to make a big leap in the offseason.

WR - need a physical, possession WR, a Givens/Gaffney type. Kevin Walter comes to mind.

WR#2 - Don't know what's wrong with Moss, but I wouldn't be shocked to see him gone and replaced by a speed guy.

ILB - this is a tough one. BB obviously likes Mayo and Guyton, but Mayo was a major disappointment this year and Guyton seems like a part-timer to me.

You are correct on all of the defense ones except for safety and ILB. Chung was a rookie and really only played in special packages, so I dont know what you expected from him. Sanders didnt really play until the last 1/4 of the season and McGowan had a very good first half of the year and then struggled. INT's are a good stat to rate safety play with. Mayo didnt have as bad of a year as people are saying. He had an injury and I think was rushed back, therefore wasnt really 100% the whole season. This kid is a stud and will be back in 2010. If you think the ILB need is to replace Mayo you are mistaken.

On offense we definitely need a WR and possibly 2, but when you say one of them is to replace Moss that is way out of left field. If that is the case then we need 3 WR's to replace Moss. Moss is staying put in 2010.

 

[mgteich]

Playing without a starting OG and Te is impressive.

Here's my list...

OLB - pretty obvious. AD is done and Woods, Ninkovich, etc. are not starters.

OLB #2 - TBC should not be an every down player.

DE - another obvious one. Need a pass rushing DL to replace Seymour and the over-the-hill Jarvis.

S - I've said this before, but 1 INT out of Sanders, McGowan, and Chung combined is not "starting" caliber. If Chung is that guy, he'll have to make a big leap in the offseason.

WR - need a physical, possession WR, a Givens/Gaffney type. Kevin Walter comes to mind.

WR#2 - Don't know what's wrong with Moss, but I wouldn't be shocked to see him gone and replaced by a speed guy.

ILB - this is a tough one. BB obviously likes Mayo and Guyton, but Mayo was a major disappointment this year and Guyton seems like a part-timer to me.

 

[bucky]

Playing without a starting OG and Te is impressive.

I'm thinking more along the lines of upgrading, as opposed to replacing FAs. Because if we were replacing FAs, we'd be talking kicker, NT, etc. I actually think Watson is going to be back. And on the OL, I expect either Light or Kaczur to move to Guard.

 

[bucky]

You are correct on all of the defense ones except for safety and ILB. Chung was a rookie and really only played in special packages, so I dont know what you expected from him. Sanders didnt really play until the last 1/4 of the season and McGowan had a very good first half of the year and then struggled. INT's are a good stat to rate safety play with. Mayo didnt have as bad of a year as people are saying. He had an injury and I think was rushed back, therefore wasnt really 100% the whole season. This kid is a stud and will be back in 2010. If you think the ILB need is to replace Mayo you are mistaken.

On offense we definitely need a WR and possibly 2, but when you say one of them is to replace Moss that is way out of left field. If that is the case then we need 3 WR's to replace Moss. Moss is staying put in 2010.

I've been a big Randy Moss fan, but he just seemed to not be there for Brady this week. And he's clearly lost plenty of speed since 2007. There were probably a good dozen or so times that Brady overthrew Moss deep this year - most of those would have been caught in 2007. I would much rather go back to the Branch/Givens/Brown days (with Welker playing the role of Brown) of finding the open receiver, as opposed to the Moss/Aiken model.

As for Safety, Chung hasn't shown me that he can be a starter in the NFL. I'm not saying that he won't be, just that he hasn't shown it. McGowan+Sanders = 0 INTs. That stat is GLARING.

 

[The Dynasty]

I've been a big Randy Moss fan, but he just seemed to not be there for Brady this week. And he's clearly lost plenty of speed since 2007. There were probably a good dozen or so times that Brady overthrew Moss deep this year - most of those would have been caught in 2007. I would much rather go back to the Branch/Givens/Brown days (with Welker playing the role of Brown) of finding the open receiver, as opposed to the Moss/Aiken model.

As for Safety, Chung hasn't shown me that he can be a starter in the NFL. I'm not saying that he won't be, just that he hasn't shown it. McGowan+Sanders = 0 INTs. That stat is GLARING.

There have been many threads about Moss and his season. Yes he has lost some of his speed, and some of that is because of his age and also because he was banged up for most of the season. Even with all this he still put up top 10, maybe 5 quality WR stats. He was in the top 10 in all the receiving categories and led the league in TD's. You cannot just let that talent go away.

With your point of going back to the Branch/Givens/Brown days, look at 2007 and the records the Pats set. All they need is a #3 WR, which is definitely a need this offseason and they are at the same level if not better than 2007. Brady and the Pats offense was much better in 2007 than in 2004 and 2005.

Chung is more of a blitzer than a cover guy, he is more involved in sub packages and I dont expect him to be starting. Just because those guys didnt have many INT's doesnt mean that they arent making plays. McGowan was raved about for the first half of the season until he struggled against the pass. Sanders made some plays at the end of the season. Chung and McGowan are young. We are fine at the safety position, and why draft another safety when we just spent our top draft pick on one last year?

 

[Nonentity]

There have been many threads about Moss and his season. Yes he has lost some of his speed, and some of that is because of his age and also because he was banged up for most of the season. Even with all this he still put up top 10, maybe 5 quality WR stats. He was in the top 10 in all the receiving categories and led the league in TD's. You cannot just let that talent go away.

With your point of going back to the Branch/Givens/Brown days, look at 2007 and the records the Pats set. All they need is a #3 WR, which is definitely a need this offseason and they are at the same level if not better than 2007. Brady and the Pats offense was much better in 2007 than in 2004 and 2005.

Chung is more of a blitzer than a cover guy, he is more involved in sub packages and I dont expect him to be starting. Just because those guys didnt have many INT's doesnt mean that they arent making plays. McGowan was raved about for the first half of the season until he struggled against the pass. Sanders made some plays at the end of the season. Chung and McGowan are young. We are fine at the safety position, and why draft another safety when we just spent our top draft pick on one last year?

I completely agree.

Chung is a Strong Safety. His run defense was pretty good this season. His coverage still needs some work and he gave up some penalties, but on a bad team he would have been perfectly good enough to start. We should appreciate the talent that we actually have here - initial comparisons to Delmas are pointless because he's now had a season of full-time starting experience and Chung hasn't.

Moss is fine as well. Imagine being a receiver like Moss, running 40-50 sprints every game and only getting the ball thrown to you 5 times. When you see a safety shaded over the top every play and you know that Brady probably isn't even looking in your direction, it's a killer. But winning is a cure for all such ills.

We need another outside threat, Stallworth-style, to distract from the Moss/Welker combo. Think about it - Welker is a slot receiver, the best at the position in the league. But since all teams have two safeties, you can play double coverage on both - a corner and safety on Moss and multiple players on Welker. The Saints showed us that.

All we need is a 3rd receiver. Tight ends are great for this - I'm thinking of trios such as Harrison/Wayne/Clark (Colts) and Jackson/Chambers/Gates (Chargers). But it still works with a 3rd WR who has good hands and who can go over the middle, and that's a need for us.

There is an alternative, of course....the running game

 

[bucky]

There have been many threads about Moss and his season. Yes he has lost some of his speed, and some of that is because of his age and also because he was banged up for most of the season. Even with all this he still put up top 10, maybe 5 quality WR stats. He was in the top 10 in all the receiving categories and led the league in TD's. You cannot just let that talent go away.

With your point of going back to the Branch/Givens/Brown days, look at 2007 and the records the Pats set. All they need is a #3 WR, which is definitely a need this offseason and they are at the same level if not better than 2007. Brady and the Pats offense was much better in 2007 than in 2004 and 2005.

Chung is more of a blitzer than a cover guy, he is more involved in sub packages and I dont expect him to be starting. Just because those guys didnt have many INT's doesnt mean that they arent making plays. McGowan was raved about for the first half of the season until he struggled against the pass. Sanders made some plays at the end of the season. Chung and McGowan are young. We are fine at the safety position, and why draft another safety when we just spent our top draft pick on one last year?

Let me see now... we have only 1 safety on the team who can cover on the entire roster. Unfortunately, he can't tackle very well, but that's another issue for another thread. That arrangement would be fine if we had Roman Phifer and Derrick Brooks in their prime at ILBs. But the fact is that none of our LBs are any good in coverage either. And you're saying we're "fine" there.

On Moss, I agree there are many threads and I don't want to rehash. I'm not trying to take an anti-Moss stand. I won't be surprised if he's ere next year and I won't be surprised if he's not. He's no longer the Moss of 2007 and it's not clear to me that he's worth the $6.5 mil in new money next year.

 

[The Dynasty]

Let me see now... we have only 1 safety on the team who can cover on the entire roster. Unfortunately, he can't tackle very well, but that's another issue for another thread. That arrangement would be fine if we had Roman Phifer and Derrick Brooks in their prime at ILBs. But the fact is that none of our LBs are any good in coverage either. And you're saying we're "fine" there.

On Moss, I agree there are many threads and I don't want to rehash. I'm not trying to take an anti-Moss stand. I won't be surprised if he's ere next year and I won't be surprised if he's not. He's no longer the Moss of 2007 and it's not clear to me that he's worth the $6.5 mil in new money next year.

Our secondary is the strongest part of our defense, its above the DL and LB's. Our secondary and especially the safeties are young. Merrweather was only in his 3rd year, McGowan was in his 5th but was his first year of actually playing and Chung obviously is a rookie. They are only going to get better. Was the play of our safeties really a concern this season? No, it was the lack of pressure on the opposing teams QB.

First of all 2007 was a record breaking year and probably a team will never have that much success again. Randy Moss is still a very productive and one of the best WRs in the NFL, just look at his numbers. Is that someone you dont want on your roster?