Thoughts on Sergio Kindle?

[midwestpatsfan]

Hi all,
Well, unfortunately because of the early exit from the playoffs it is now time to focus on the draft. I have just started my player reviews and wanted to get others thoughts on Kindle. His size, weight, speed all seem to fit perfectly into what Belichick said he is looking for in an OLB. Watching a few highlight reels of his play seems to show he has good explosion and a powerful lower body. He played that olb/de position in college so he does have some experience with his hands off the ground. What I cannot seem to find any tape on is if he can play in coverage.

He seems almost lanky, which means hopefully he can still put on some weight without losing his speed, but as of right now, I do not see him with the body type to be the Elephant OLB. Like I said, his frame does seem to be able to handle more weight so he could grow into that position.

What are all of your thoughts on this kid. He seems to be in that range where he could be available for that patriots at 22 or a small trade up.

 

[TriplecHamp]

He might actually slip into the second round believe it or not. I think he only had 3 sacks this season so teams wont look at him as the best pass rusher in the draft but this is the type of guy that can and will play all 3 downs. Hes got some off-field issues but honestly He seems like the type that made a few mistakes not a trouble maker. I like his line from the National Championship game, 8 tackles and 2 sacks against a very good Bama oline.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

He might actually slip into the second round believe it or not. I think he only had 3 sacks this season so teams wont look at him as the best pass rusher in the draft but this is the type of guy that can and will play all 3 downs. Hes got some off-field issues but honestly He seems like the type that made a few mistakes not a trouble maker. I like his line from the National Championship game, 8 tackles and 2 sacks against a very good Bama oline.

I wish we played defense like Texas did in the beginning of that game. They came out and punched Bama in the mouth. They attacked and collapsed the pocket and forced the issue. They brought the heat and set a physical tone early. That's the type of defense players like to play in and I like to see my team play. Aggressive, in your face, imposing you will.

Sometimes you have to wonder, maybe our scheme just wasn't made to have that dominant pass rusher. We are a more conservative defense that likes to drop guys into coverage and have them read and react to the play.

The only time we attack on D is in the five and dime package, and I LOVE when we go to that on 3rd downs.

Greg Hardy is my favorite 3-4 OLB prospect for the Pats b/c of his speed in pursuit and pure pass rushing skills, but I'm beginning to think it's the scheme much more than the personnel. We bring in guy after guy to be the solution, and no one ever is. We all though AD would be the solution, but he wasn't.

I just don't think we are ever going to have a guy like Ware or Merriman who posts double digit sack numbers unless we see a change in scheme to be more aggressive.

 

[WhiZa]

He might actually slip into the second round believe it or not. I think he only had 3 sacks this season so teams wont look at him as the best pass rusher in the draft but this is the type of guy that can and will play all 3 downs. Hes got some off-field issues but honestly He seems like the type that made a few mistakes not a trouble maker. I like his line from the National Championship game, 8 tackles and 2 sacks against a very good Bama oline.

Until he blows up the combine and then he'll be a top 10 pick. I really think he can have the same success, if not better, then Merriman and Ware have had mainly because he's played LB and DE at Texas with success.

 

[TriplecHamp]

I wish we played defense like Texas did in the beginning of that game. They came out and punched Bama in the mouth. They attacked and collapsed the pocket and forced the issue. They brought the heat and set a physical tone early. That's the type of defense players like to play in and I like to see my team play. Aggressive, in your face, imposing you will.

Sometimes you have to wonder, maybe our scheme just wasn't made to have that dominant pass rusher. We are a more conservative defense that likes to drop guys into coverage and have them read and react to the play.

The only time we attack on D is in the five and dime package, and I LOVE when we go to that on 3rd downs.

Greg Hardy is my favorite 3-4 OLB prospect for the Pats b/c of his speed in pursuit and pure pass rushing skills, but I'm beginning to think it's the scheme much more than the personnel. We bring in guy after guy to be the solution, and no one ever is. We all though AD would be the solution, but he wasn't.

I just don't think we are ever going to have a guy like Ware or Merriman who posts double digit sack numbers unless we see a change in scheme to be more aggressive.

Bingo! We need to become more agressive on D. We used to be able to rely on the QB making a mistake and baiting him into making that mistake but these days QBs are too smart and so are the offensive schemes. If you cant get pressure on the QB these days an average guy can pick you apart. You see alot of successful Defenses employ the more attacking 3-4 Defense, The Ravens, Cowboys, Steelers, and the Jets all bring the heat forcing the QB to make a quick decision and dump it off underneath. The second part to the equation is the defense flying up and taking the receivers legs right out from under them. If one of these receivers slips the tackle its 6 but the caliber of athlete on the Defense usually doesn't miss the tackle. You dont even need a great pass rusher to do it, look at the Jets. Calvin Pace isnt a beast, hes a good olb but hes not Ware. A great pass rusher just makes things alot easier.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Until he blows up the combine and then he'll be a top 10 pick. I really think he can have the same success, if not better, then Merriman and Ware have had mainly because he's played LB and DE at Texas with success.

If he runs a low 4.6 or a high 4.5 he will be a 1st rounder for sure but He wont go top 10.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Bingo! We need to become more agressive on D. We used to be able to rely on the QB making a mistake and baiting him into making that mistake but these days QBs are too smart and so are the offensive schemes. If you cant get pressure on the QB these days an average guy can pick you apart. You see alot of successful Defenses employ the more attacking 3-4 Defense, The Ravens, Cowboys, Steelers, and the Jets all bring the heat forcing the QB to make a quick decision and dump it off underneath. The second part to the equation is the defense flying up and taking the receivers legs right out from under them. If one of these receivers slips the tackle its 6 but the caliber of athlete on the Defense usually doesn't miss the tackle. You dont even need a great pass rusher to do it, look at the Jets. Calvin Pace isnt a beast, hes a good olb but hes not Ware. A great pass rusher just makes things alot easier.

Exactly how I've felt all season. I've been beating the same drum all season saying we need to move to an attacking 1-gap 3-4 scheme. I agree with everything you said.

There's a reason Baltimore and Pittsburgh have been the 2 best defensive teams over the last decade, giving up the least amount of yards and forcing the most amount of turnovers.

It's even evident in our own division. The Jets under Mangini, a BB protege, played the same style of defense that we play. Cassel picked them apart for 400 yards last year and Brady always had his way with them. In comes Rex Ryan with a few personnel changes and bam, the Jets are the #1 defense in the league. We've had A LOT more trouble moving the ball on the Jets this year than we have had in the past.

Look at the 16-0 2007 season. Who did we have the most trouble against? Eagles, Ravens, Giants. What did they all have in common? The ability to consistently get heat on Brady and rattle our passing attack.

Belichick is a smart guy, he has to have realized this. He is usually ahead of everyone else, but he seems to have fallen behind on this one. I guess when you've been to 4 SB in the past decade, why change a system that has been so successful for you? Well, I operate differently. I'm always looking to improve and get better on offense and defense. In today's NFL, getting pressure on the QB is the single most important thing a defense needs to do.

Why even bother to bring in a Kindle, Hardy, Sapp, Dunlap, Peppers, or Merriman if they are just going to drop back into coverage? Another thing to consider is what the players want. I live in NY and all the defensive guys on the Jets talk about is how much they love playing for Rex Ryan and how much they love his defense. Players love to attack, force the issue, impose thier will, and cause chaos. Look at Adalius Thomas. Do you think he enjoyed wreaking havoc in Baltimore more or playing in the read and react Pats defense more?

You look at Sunday and you see what Baltimore did to us by being so aggressive on D and that's what you want to see the Pats do. They took away the deep ball by not giving us enough time, forced turnovers, rattled Brady, and didn't let us get into a rhythm. Then you look at what Brees did to us on Monday night, and how we let Chad Henne chop us up in Miami. It's embarrassing.

 

[Brono]

Despite the advantages of a 2-gap 3-4 over the 1-gap version, if it's difficult to find personnel to fit it, and play it effectively, does that mean it's time for a change?

 

[patsfaninpa]

I want to know why teams don't have a base nickel package? 95% of the plays teams run (just guessing) are from a 3wr and 1te set. Or 4 wr's, or 5 wr's. Why build a defense to play the game the way it used to be played? Don't build an army for the last war. Build one for the next one.

 

[mayoclinic]

Hi all,
Well, unfortunately because of the early exit from the playoffs it is now time to focus on the draft. I have just started my player reviews and wanted to get others thoughts on Kindle. His size, weight, speed all seem to fit perfectly into what Belichick said he is looking for in an OLB. Watching a few highlight reels of his play seems to show he has good explosion and a powerful lower body. He played that olb/de position in college so he does have some experience with his hands off the ground. What I cannot seem to find any tape on is if he can play in coverage.

He seems almost lanky, which means hopefully he can still put on some weight without losing his speed, but as of right now, I do not see him with the body type to be the Elephant OLB. Like I said, his frame does seem to be able to handle more weight so he could grow into that position.

What are all of your thoughts on this kid. He seems to be in that range where he could be available for that patriots at 22 or a small trade up.

Kindle is a weak side DE/OLB in the Pats' system, similar to Roosevelt Colvin. He lacks some ideal size and bulk - he was rumored to play closer to 238# than the 254# he's listed at. It's not clear enough that he is strong enough to set the edge or play the run in BB's system, or how good he is at dropping into coverage. But he is a phenomenal athlete with elite speed, and certainly has to be one of the top 5 weak side prospects in the draft.

Kindle only produced about 3.5 sacks this year, and there are some questions about his motor and consistency, compared to guys like Von Miller and Jerry Hughes. Those guys would likely be a superior pass rusher, but Kindle is a better overall athlete and probably beter suited to doing the diverse things that BB demands of his OLBs. I think he's comparable to Ricky Sapp of Clemson, perhaps with a bit more upside. I personally wouldn't take him in the 1st round and think that someone will because of his numbers, but I'd have to give him serious consideration if he fell to the 2nd round.

I don't think Kindle could play 4-3 DE for us. He's just not strong enough at the point of attack or able to take on linemen effectively enough. But he would be a very good 4-3 SAM as well as a 3-4 weakside OLB.

I personally like Austen Lane best as a weak side DE/OLB and think that Jason Pierre-Paul probably has the most upside of anyone. But Kindle, Sapp, Miller (if he declares) and Jerry Hughes should certainly get consideration.

Right now, I'd guess he puts up terrific numbers at the combine and goes somewhere between Miami and Arizona in the 1st. But again, if he fell to the 2nd, I'd take a hard look at him, depending on who else was available.

 

[TealSox]

I want to know why teams don't have a base nickel package? 95% of the plays teams run (just guessing) are from a 3wr and 1te set. Or 4 wr's, or 5 wr's. Why build a defense to play the game the way it used to be played? Don't build an army for the last war. Build one for the next one.

Sounds like someone has read the Art of War.

I agree 100%.

 

[Nonentity]

I want to know why teams don't have a base nickel package? 95% of the plays teams run (just guessing) are from a 3wr and 1te set. Or 4 wr's, or 5 wr's. Why build a defense to play the game the way it used to be played? Don't build an army for the last war. Build one for the next one.

Sounds like someone has read the Art of War.

I agree 100%.

Sorry to get off-topic. But it really varies between teams. You play your base defence against the Ravens and Jags because you know what's coming - the run. Against the Colts you play a 'sub' defence with five or six defensive backs. This is why BB regularly refers to nickel corners as being as important as starters, because they play so many snaps. It's not an 11 man defence anymore, you need 12-13 starting-quality players just to deal with the different looks that an opponent may show you on offence.