OT: Talk about a killer draft

[SHOWTIME15]

Check out the cowboys 2005 draft by Parcells:

1 Demarcus Ware Troy State
1 Marcus Spears Louisiana State
2 Kevin Burnett Tennessee
4 Marion Barber Minnesota
4 Chris Canty Virginia
6 Justin Beriault Ball State
6 Rob Petitti Pittsburgh
7 Jay Ratliff Auburn

Kevin burnett is not on the cowboys anymore but is doing quite well I think in San Diego.

This is really what the pats need - just one or two amazing drafts like the one above. That's one of the things I've always loved about parcells - he drafts so well. I mean look at Jay Ratliff - a 7th rounder who is having such an impact as the starting NT for the cowboys. The cowboys are where they are today IMO mainly because of this draft.

edit: The 2005 draft by the Chargers A.J. Smith is almost equally as impressive:


1 Shawne Merriman Maryland
1 Luis Castillo Northwestern
2 Vincent Jackson Northern Colorado
4 Darren Sproles Kansas State
5 Wesley Britt Alabama
6 Wes Sims Oklahoma
7 Scott Mruczkowski

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Like this one.....

1 24(24) Brandon Meriweather DB Miami (FL)
4 28(127) Kareem Brown DT Miami (FL)
5 34(171) Clint Oldenburg OT Colorado State
6 6(180) Justin Rogers LB Southern Methodist
6 28(202) Mike Richardson DB Notre Dame
6 34(208) Justise Hairston RB Central Connecticut State
6 35(209) Corey Hilliard OT Oklahoma State
7 1(211) Oscar Lua LB USC
7 37(247) Mike Elgin OG Iowa


ouch.....

 

[klinefan]

Takes 4 years though apparently to pay off.

Do we have 4 years?

I'm going to ignore that your post could be considered heresy against BB by the homers here.

 

[Synovia]

Like this one.....

1 24(24) Brandon Meriweather DB Miami (FL)
4 28(127) Kareem Brown DT Miami (FL)
5 34(171) Clint Oldenburg OT Colorado State
6 6(180) Justin Rogers LB Southern Methodist
6 28(202) Mike Richardson DB Notre Dame
6 34(208) Justise Hairston RB Central Connecticut State
6 35(209) Corey Hilliard OT Oklahoma State
7 1(211) Oscar Lua LB USC
7 37(247) Mike Elgin OG Iowa


ouch.....

When almost all of your picks are from the 5th round on, and you're a playoff team, thats pretty much expected.


Not to mention, most of those guys are still in the NFL.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Best Draft of this decade.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Takes 4 years though apparently to pay off.

Do we have 4 years?

I'm going to ignore that your post could be considered heresy against BB by the homers here.

nope, we don't. thus, the reason why the pats are suffering today and may suffer for a few more years. the 2005-2008 drafts were average for the most part. of course, we made a couple of very good picks over the years but never had that one spectacular draft. And BB homers, please don't bring up the welker and moss trades. Those were trades, not draft picks.

Championship teams are built in the 2nd-7th rounds of the draft. For the pats sake, I hope the 2009 draft pans out to be great.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Like this one.....

1 24(24) Brandon Meriweather DB Miami (FL)
4 28(127) Kareem Brown DT Miami (FL)
5 34(171) Clint Oldenburg OT Colorado State
6 6(180) Justin Rogers LB Southern Methodist
6 28(202) Mike Richardson DB Notre Dame
6 34(208) Justise Hairston RB Central Connecticut State
6 35(209) Corey Hilliard OT Oklahoma State
7 1(211) Oscar Lua LB USC
7 37(247) Mike Elgin OG Iowa


ouch.....

i still laugh at that oscar lua pick.

 

[LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks]

Like this one.....

1 24(24) Brandon Meriweather DB Miami (FL)
4 28(127) Kareem Brown DT Miami (FL)
5 34(171) Clint Oldenburg OT Colorado State
6 6(180) Justin Rogers LB Southern Methodist
6 28(202) Mike Richardson DB Notre Dame
6 34(208) Justise Hairston RB Central Connecticut State
6 35(209) Corey Hilliard OT Oklahoma State
7 1(211) Oscar Lua LB USC
7 37(247) Mike Elgin OG Iowa


ouch.....

Well, with no 2nd and 3rd rounders it's pretty tough to have much of a draft. Considering they got Welker for a 2nd rounder and Moss for a 4th rounder and moved a late 1st into the next year which went on to become Jerod Mayo, I think it was a damn good draft---even if the actual drafting wasn't very good aside from Meriweather.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

yeah, these people that don't include moss and welker in that draft have no clue. WELKER AND MOSS WERE ACQUIRED BY DRAFT PICKS FROM THAT DRAFT, THUS YOU MUST INCLUDE THEM WHEN TALKING ABOUT THAT DRAFT. AND TRADING A FIRST TO SF FOR A FIRST THE NEXT YEAR IS GRAVY. personally, all things considered, i think they had a great draft that year.

 

[Deus Irae]

Like this one.....

1 24(24) Brandon Meriweather DB Miami (FL)
4 28(127) Kareem Brown DT Miami (FL)
5 34(171) Clint Oldenburg OT Colorado State
6 6(180) Justin Rogers LB Southern Methodist
6 28(202) Mike Richardson DB Notre Dame
6 34(208) Justise Hairston RB Central Connecticut State
6 35(209) Corey Hilliard OT Oklahoma State
7 1(211) Oscar Lua LB USC
7 37(247) Mike Elgin OG Iowa


ouch.....

Why "ouch"?

That 2007 draft netted the Patriots 3 Pro Bowl players (albeit Meriweather via 'alternate' status).

Also, Rogers and Richardson are still in the league, with the Chiefs, and Kareem Brown is still with Tennessee (practice player, I believe).

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Why "ouch"?

That 2007 draft netted the Patriots 3 Pro Bowl players (albeit Meriweather via 'alternate' status).

Also, Rogers and Richardson are still in the league, with the Chiefs, and Kareem Brown is still with Tennessee (practice player, I believe).

because one of those pro bowl players doesn't try all the time and is now 32/33. the other - welker is now 28, although he is spectacular. meriweather is ok, not ed reed or anything. The idea is to get young players so that they develop and contribute into their prime.

pats biggest weaknesses over the past few seasons can be traced directly to poor drafting. ok, the receivers got a lot better with welker, moss and stallworth. however, the oline has been the same essentially since the super bowl years. we still have no pass rush, no great RB who can eat up the clock and a suspect secondary.

 

[s.t.e.n.d.e.c]

When almost all of your picks are from the 5th round on, and you're a playoff team, thats pretty much expected.


Not to mention, most of those guys are still in the NFL.

Thats a very good point.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

yeah, these people that don't include moss and welker in that draft have no clue. WELKER AND MOSS WERE ACQUIRED BY DRAFT PICKS FROM THAT DRAFT, THUS YOU MUST INCLUDE THEM WHEN TALKING ABOUT THAT DRAFT. AND TRADING A FIRST TO SF FOR A FIRST THE NEXT YEAR IS GRAVY. personally, all things considered, i think they had a great draft that year.

I will give you Welker and Moss for the 2nd, 4th, and 7th round picks..I'll even throw in Joe Staley for Mayo.

BUT instead of Meriweather they could have taken either

Beason or Anthony Spencer

Players taken between 127 and 171:

Clint Sessions
Le'Ron McClain
Steve Breaston
Kevin Boss
Brent Celek
David Clowney
William Gay

Players taken 171 and on..

Legadu Nanee (172)
Kasey Studdord (183)
Ken Shacklford (190)
Prescott Burgess (207)
Chancy Stuckey (235)
Brandon Siler (240)
Jason Snelling (244)
Artmad Bradshaw (250)
Chinedum Ndukwe (253)

Plenty O missess in the last 3 drafts

 

[Deus Irae]

because one of those pro bowl players doesn't try all the time and is now 32/33. the other - welker is now 28, although he is spectacular. meriweather is ok, not ed reed or anything. The idea is to get young players so that they develop and contribute into their prime.

No, the idea is to get players who can help your team win. That trio of players helped the Patriots to a 16-0 season.

 

[Kontradiction]

I will give you Welker and Moss for the 2nd, 4th, and 7th round picks..I'll even throw in Joe Staley for Mayo.

BUT instead of Meriweather they could have taken either

Beason or Anthony Spencer

Players taken between 127 and 171:

Clint Sessions
Le'Ron McClain
Steve Breaston
Kevin Boss
Brent Celek
David Clowney
William Gay

Players taken 171 and on..

Legadu Nanee (172)
Kasey Studdord (183)
Ken Shacklford (190)
Prescott Burgess (207)
Chancy Stuckey (235)
Brandon Siler (240)
Jason Snelling (244)
Artmad Bradshaw (250)
Chinedum Ndukwe (253)

Plenty O missess in the last 3 drafts

Steve Breaston would have done this offense a world of good this season.

 

[Deus Irae]

Plenty O missess in the last 3 drafts

There really haven't been. Frankly, that's one of the problems with people today. Everyone thinks every pick needs to yield an All-Pro. That's not how it works.

What has happened is something that's overlooked by people trying to play "This guy was available!" instead of reading the pattern of the drafts. 2007 was an excellent draft for the team, because it was the primary reason for the team to jump to 16-0.

However, the problem with recent Patriots drafts hasn't been any particularly high failure rate, because that hasn't existed. The problem has been that the 'hits' have been singles and doubles instead of home runs. Mayo was DROY last year, Wilhite is fine as a nickel corner, Wheatley looked pretty good last year until his injury, Slater is a solid special teams player and Crable's had the Devil's own luck. I hated the drafting of a QB with that 3rd round pick, but that draft is still fine. It's just not spectacular. 2007 netted 3 Pro Bowlers. 2009 looks like it's netted future starters in Butler, Vollmer and Edelman (even if only because the best slot receiver in the game will be out), a long snapper in Ingram, a backup in Pryor, a potential starter in Chung, and other players that we just don't know enough about yet. That's a very solid looking draft to this point.

The problem is that solid doesn't win Super Bowls year after year. Even good doesn't do that. You need phenomenal, and that's why the league stacks the deck against the good teams.

It's not about "Kevin Boss was available". It's about "Meriweather is good, but he's not Rodney Harrison". Hell, if they take Beason, as in your "but this guy!", they need a safety, and Mayo probably isn't drafted. And it's not as if Beason has been leading the Panthers defense into the promised land.

 

[patsfan-1982]

DeMarcus Ware, first round 11th over all. maybe the best player in that draft

Marcus Spears, first round pick 20th over all. good player not a great player

Kevin Burnett, 2th round pick 42th over all. he had he's best year this year for san diego but it was still only 50 tackels and 2 sacks

Marion Barber, 4th round pick 109th over all. to get a guy with 4000 yerds and over 40. TD's in the 4th is great

chris canty, 4th round pick 132th over all. he was a good player for the cowboys not so good for the g men

Justin Beriault, 6th round pick 208th over all.

Rob Petitti, 6th round pick 209th over all.


Jay Ratliff, 7th round pick 224th over all. one of the best NT in the NFL and by far the best pass rushing NT in the NFL


the pats 2005 draft

Logan Mankins, first round pick 32th over all. he has started ever game with out missing any since he has been drafted and has been to 2 pro bowls

Ellis Hobbs, 3rd round pick 84th over all. he started 49 games for the pats and was one of the best kick returners in the NFL

Nick Kaczur, 3rd round pick 100th over all. has started in over 50 games for the pats

James Sanders, 4th round pick 133rd over all. has stared 40 games for the pats

Ryan Claridge, 5th round pick 170th over all. i think hes out of the NFL

Matt Cassel, 7th round pick 230th over all. he's a starting QB in the NFL


Andy Stokes, 255th pick over all. i think he is out of the NFL


the cowboys had the best draft of 2005 but they did have 2 first round picks and a 2th round pick and all there picks where higher then the pats so for the pats to get 5 starters out of that draft with only the last pick in the first round and no 2th round pick is pretty good

 

[Wretch]

There really haven't been. Frankly, that's one of the problems with people today. Everyone thinks every pick needs to yield an All-Pro. That's not how it works.

What has happened is something that's overlooked by people trying to play "This guy was available!" instead of reading the pattern of the drafts. 2007 was an excellent draft for the team, because it was the primary reason for the team to jump to 16-0.

However, the problem with recent Patriots drafts hasn't been any particularly high failure rate, because that hasn't existed. The problem has been that the 'hits' have been singles and doubles instead of home runs. Mayo was DROY last year, Wilhite is fine as a nickel corner, Wheatley looked pretty good last year until his injury, Slater is a solid special teams player and Crable's had the Devil's own luck. I hated the drafting of a QB with that 3rd round pick, but that draft is still fine. It's just not spectacular. 2007 netted 3 Pro Bowlers. 2009 looks like it's netted future starters in Butler, Vollmer and Edelman (even if only because the best slot receiver in the game will be out), a long snapper in Ingram, a backup in Pryor, a potential starter in Chung, and other players that we just don't know enough about yet. That's a very solid looking draft to this point.

The problem is that solid doesn't win Super Bowls year after year. Even good doesn't do that. You need phenomenal, and that's why the league stacks the deck against the good teams.

It's not about "Kevin Boss was available". It's about "Meriweather is good, but he's not Rodney Harrison". Hell, if they take Beason, as in your "but this guy!", they need a safety, and Mayo probably isn't drafted. And it's not as if Beason has been leading the Panthers defense into the promised land.

Well said, and just to add another point just because a player like Beason is successful in a particular defensive system doesn't mean he would be successful for the Pats.

Vrabel is a perfect example of a player that didn't fit in the Pitt 3-4 but was perfect for the Pats 3-4. A lot of the players named in the could have list are not well suited to play in the Pats defensive system.

The one valid criticism of the Pats recent drafts is the relatively high miss rate on 2nd round picks, Johnson, Jackson, and Hill specifically. Not getting starting quality players or all pros with every 4-7th round pick is not a valid complaint.

 

[klinefan]

yeah, these people that don't include moss and welker in that draft have no clue. WELKER AND MOSS WERE ACQUIRED BY DRAFT PICKS FROM THAT DRAFT, THUS YOU MUST INCLUDE THEM WHEN TALKING ABOUT THAT DRAFT. AND TRADING A FIRST TO SF FOR A FIRST THE NEXT YEAR IS GRAVY. personally, all things considered, i think they had a great draft that year.

Nonsense you homer. If that's true then a team which signs a top FA while giving up NO DRAFT PICKS should be considered to have an awesome draft. Better than any team that trades a draft pick for a player like we did. After all they didn't give up any picks and got a great player.

The point of the draft is you get good players cheap. If you give up a pick to get a top player (like Moss was) but you have to pay him top dollar, then it isn't as GOOD.

How many 5-7th rounders in that draft? And not one of them amounted to squat. You'd think by the law of averages he'd hit one once in a while. Blind pig finds the acorn type of thing.

 

[jsull87]

Like this one.....

1 24(24) Brandon Meriweather DB Miami (FL)
4 28(127) Kareem Brown DT Miami (FL)
5 34(171) Clint Oldenburg OT Colorado State
6 6(180) Justin Rogers LB Southern Methodist
6 28(202) Mike Richardson DB Notre Dame
6 34(208) Justise Hairston RB Central Connecticut State
6 35(209) Corey Hilliard OT Oklahoma State
7 1(211) Oscar Lua LB USC
7 37(247) Mike Elgin OG Iowa


ouch.....

You can't compare one 1st and 5 picks in the 6th and 7th to a team who had 2 high #1's and a 2