Lots Of Roster Holes

[mgteich]

Let us presume that we bring back all that we can. We still will need two OG's, 3 WR's, and an OLB.

My hope is that we use free agency to sign the wide receivers, the OLB and a replacement for any of the free agents below that we don't re-sign. That will leave us with only two MUSTS for the draft: two OG's.

Banta-Cain (his extension hasn't been made official)
Wilfork
Bodden
Burgess
Green
Watson
Faulk
Mankins (RFA)
Gostkowsksi (RFA)
Woods (RFA)

 

[DocE]

Your presumption is that you just draft a rookie and he's a starter. I would prefer to draft two players, expecting the best to start this year and the the other to be groomed for next year. I guess we're not used to drafting with such a wide open hole on the roster.

If we bring back everyone, why would we need 2 OG's? Even if brining back everyone excludes Neal due to retirement, wouldn't the need at OG sit at one? The Pats would have Mankins, Ohrnberger, Connolly, and Wendell as guard options going in to '10. Most teams carry 7-8 lineman on the gameday roster, so at least one backup needs to have position versatility (ex T/G or G/C). I find it unlikely (though not impossible) that the Patriots would see a need for 2 more guards if every current OL not named Neal returned. I don't doubt that there could be 2 additions at OG, just that their wouldn't be a glaring need in this scenario.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

If we bring back everyone, why would we need 2 OG's? Even if brining back everyone excludes Neal due to retirement, wouldn't the need at OG sit at one? The Pats would have Mankins, Ohrnberger, Connolly, and Wendell as guard options going in to '10. Most teams carry 7-8 lineman on the gameday roster, so at least one backup needs to have position versatility (ex T/G or G/C). I find it unlikely (though not impossible) that the Patriots would see a need for 2 more guards if every current OL not named Neal returned. I don't doubt that there could be 2 additions at OG, just that their wouldn't be a glaring need in this scenario.

Lets consider Mankins:
-- A CBA agreement appears unlikely, so he's an RFA.
-- As an RFA he's low cost, but after 2010 he's a UFA.
-- As a UFA, two time Pro Bowl Guard, he's going to be expensive.
-- According to the Franchise/Transition Tag projection thread the top Guards pulled down $7M+ for one year.

So does BB keep Mankins one more season and lose him to Free Agency in 2011? Or does he consider reasonable trade offers, even shop him a little, and use the chance for a 1st or 2nd round pick in this deep draft class?
-- Is there an option to Mankins? Yes, Light is under contract and could slide inside to LG with Vollmer on the edge. Or BB could pick up another older vet in FA, and of course there's always the draft.
-- Why might teams bid for Mankins instead of drafting a Guard? Guard and Center are very shallow in this draft, Tackle has pretty good depth, but teams looking for a top Guard may be willing to pay for a proven vet like Mankins and let NE transition a Tackle the way they did Mankins.

 

[Hebeill]

Let us presume that we bring back all that we can. We still will need two OG's, 3 WR's, and an OLB.

My hope is that we use free agency to sign the wide receivers, the OLB and a replacement for any of the free agents below that we don't re-sign. That will leave us with only two MUSTS for the draft: two OG's.

Banta-Cain (his extension hasn't been made official)
Wilfork
Bodden
Burgess
Green
Watson
Faulk
Mankins (RFA)
Gostkowsksi (RFA)
Woods (RFA)

IMHO A pass rusher or two is a decided need.

 

[mayoclinic]

Let us presume that we bring back all that we can. We still will need two OG's, 3 WR's, and an OLB.

My hope is that we use free agency to sign the wide receivers, the OLB and a replacement for any of the free agents below that we don't re-sign. That will leave us with only two MUSTS for the draft: two OG's.

Banta-Cain (his extension hasn't been made official)
Wilfork
Bodden
Burgess
Green
Watson
Faulk
Mankins (RFA)
Gostkowsksi (RFA)
Woods (RFA)

I'm not sure we need 2 OG's in this draft. I don't see any reason why we can't tender Mankins as an RFA and tag him next year as a UFA, keeping him for 2 years. Plus, we may be able to keep Neal for one more year as a part time starter at OG. I think getting one stud OG this year and one next year (draft or FA) may be sufficient. Plus, that would give some time to see if Ohrnberger actually develops, or if he's just a career backup at best.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

So does BB keep Mankins one more season and lose him to Free Agency in 2011? Or does he consider reasonable trade offers, even shop him a little, and use the chance for a 1st or 2nd round pick in this deep draft class?

A team can't "shop" an RFA until he signs the tender.

-- Is there an option to Mankins? Yes, Light is under contract and could slide inside to LG with Vollmer on the edge. Or BB could pick up another older vet in FA, and of course there's always the draft.
-- Why might teams bid for Mankins instead of drafting a Guard? Guard and Center are very shallow in this draft, Tackle has pretty good depth, but teams looking for a top Guard may be willing to pay for a proven vet like Mankins and let NE transition a Tackle the way they did Mankins.

All the more reason for the Patriots to try and sign Mankins long-term.

 

[DaBruinz]

Unfortunately, the pickings are slim in free agency regarding centers and guards as well.

The big name of ILBers is Dansby since the Cardinals can't afford to franchise him as a QB.

OLBs, there are a plethora of quality UFA:
Kampman, Danny Clark, Angelo Crowell, Scott Fujita, Jason Taylor, Chaun Thompson (who could be an ILB), just to name a few.


WRs - Have been talked about Ad Nauseum..

 

[patsfan55]

Let us presume that we bring back all that we can. We still will need two OG's, 3 WR's, and an OLB.

My hope is that we use free agency to sign the wide receivers, the OLB and a replacement for any of the free agents below that we don't re-sign. That will leave us with only two MUSTS for the draft: two OG's.

Banta-Cain (his extension hasn't been made official)
Wilfork
Bodden
Burgess
Green
Watson
Faulk
Mankins (RFA)
Gostkowsksi (RFA)
Woods (RFA)

We will not win a Super Bowl with Burgess, Banta-Cain, and Woods as our primary edge defenders. We need upgrades on the outside.

 

[Jimke]

Unfortunately, the pickings are slim in free agency regarding centers and guards as well.

The big name of ILBers is Dansby since the Cardinals can't afford to franchise him as a QB.

OLBs, there are a plethora of quality UFA:
Kampman, Danny Clark, Angelo Crowell, Scott Fujita, Jason Taylor, Chaun Thompson (who could be an ILB), just to name a few.


WRs - Have been talked about Ad Nauseum..

I hope the Patriots don't play footsey with Jason Taylor again.

We will romance him only to have him jilt us again.

 

[Jimke]

Lets consider Mankins:
-- A CBA agreement appears unlikely, so he's an RFA.
-- As an RFA he's low cost, but after 2010 he's a UFA.
-- As a UFA, two time Pro Bowl Guard, he's going to be expensive.
-- According to the Franchise/Transition Tag projection thread the top Guards pulled down $7M+ for one year.

So does BB keep Mankins one more season and lose him to Free Agency in 2011? Or does he consider reasonable trade offers, even shop him a little, and use the chance for a 1st or 2nd round pick in this deep draft class?
-- Is there an option to Mankins? Yes, Light is under contract and could slide inside to LG with Vollmer on the edge. Or BB could pick up another older vet in FA, and of course there's always the draft.
-- Why might teams bid for Mankins instead of drafting a Guard? Guard and Center are very shallow in this draft, Tackle has pretty good depth, but teams looking for a top Guard may be willing to pay for a proven vet like Mankins and let NE transition a Tackle the way they did Mankins.

DeBruinz indicates that the free agent class is weak at guard. A team
just might consider giving up a third and a first round pick for Mankins.
The interested team could trade down to acquire a late first round
pick.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

A team can't "shop" an RFA until he signs the tender.

Sure they can, they just can't trade him - it gives him a little control over where he winds up and whether the new home offers him a suitable long term deal.

All the more reason for the Patriots to try and sign Mankins long-term.

P'haps, but at $6M+ annually, he'll be spendy - might better draft another Tackle to Guard conversion project at a fraction of the cost.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Sure they can, they just can't trade him - it gives him a little control over where he winds up and whether the new home offers him a suitable long term deal.

Remember a little something about BB making a big stink about the fact that Peppers hadn't signed his tender? Could you imagine that not blowing up in his face if he tried it?

P'haps, but at $6M+ annually, he'll be spendy - might better draft another Tackle to Guard conversion project at a fraction of the cost.

At least two of Light, Koppen, Neal, and Kaczur are likely to be gone within two years anyways, so I think they can afford to spend that much on Mankins.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

DeBruinz indicates that the free agent class is weak at guard. A team
just might consider giving up a third and a first round pick for Mankins.
The interested team could trade down to acquire a late first round
pick.

NFL rules specifically prohibit such tactics. In order to make a tender/franchise offer, you must use your original pick or a higher pick; you cannot use a lower pick. (So, for example, if Oakland wanted to sign Mankins or any other RFA, they'd have to cough up their first and their third; they can't use the Patriots' third.)

 

[mgteich]

If a team want to give a 1st and a 3rd, then we will use the 1st to draft a guard and our forst or first second to draft another guard.

DeBruinz indicates that the free agent class is weak at guard. A team
just might consider giving up a third and a first round pick for Mankins.
The interested team could trade down to acquire a late first round
pick.

 

[captain stone]

Let us presume that we bring back all that we can. We still will need two OG's, 3 WR's, and an OLB.

My hope is that we use free agency to sign the wide receivers, the OLB and a replacement for any of the free agents below that we don't re-sign. That will leave us with only two MUSTS for the draft: two OG's.

Banta-Cain (his extension hasn't been made official)
Wilfork
Bodden
Burgess
Green
Watson
Faulk
Mankins (RFA)
Gostkowsksi (RFA)
Woods (RFA)

I would waive G'Bye to Burgess, Green & Woods.

There are more than 2 MUSTs for the draft:
WR - more than 1, plus a couple of FAs
OC - I'm sick of seeing the small, weak Koppen being destroyed at the POA
RG - unless Kaczur slides there; OBurger, Bustey & Connelly are junk
DE - and not just a former DT; I mean a real DE with real pass-rushing skills
OLB - see WR above
SILB - Guyton absolutely sux; Junior was our best run-stopper
CB - to ensure that Wheatley & Wilhite never see the field again

 

[mgteich]

You also presume unlimited resources. You list 9 needs for the draft and mention that in addition you want WR's and OLB's from free agency. I know you understand that we cannot count on meeting these needs with 6th and 7th rounders, so we are talking about mneeting nine needs with 5 picks. A team CANNOT have nine musts and four picks.

It is much better to go into the draft with one or two musts and a wish list. I do exagerrate, but the musts for this draft will be OG and DE.

I would waive G'Bye to Burgess, Green & Woods.

There are more than 2 MUSTs for the draft:
WR - more than 1, plus a couple of FAs
OC - I'm sick of seeing the small, weak Koppen being destroyed at the POA
RG - unless Kaczur slides there; OBurger, Bustey & Connelly are junk
DE - and not just a former DT; I mean a real DE with real pass-rushing skills
OLB - see WR above
SILB - Guyton absolutely sux; Junior was our best run-stopper
CB - to ensure that Wheatley & Wilhite never see the field again

 

[everlong]

I hope they use one of their sixth or seventh rounders on a punter.

 

[mgteich]

I agree. However, Hanson has had competition in camp before. He just beats them out for the roster spot every year.

I hope they use one of their sixth or seventh rounders on a punter.

 

[DaBruinz]

DeBruinz indicates that the free agent class is weak at guard. A team
just might consider giving up a third and a first round pick for Mankins.
The interested team could trade down to acquire a late first round
pick.

The beauty of the 1st and 3rd round pick situation is that the Pats can MATCH whatever offer Mankins gets..

I don't believe its going to be an issue as I believe he and Wilfork will get long term extensions ala Warren.

 

[DaBruinz]

I would waive G'Bye to Burgess, Green & Woods.

There are more than 2 MUSTs for the draft:
WR - more than 1, plus a couple of FAs
OC - I'm sick of seeing the small, weak Koppen being destroyed at the POA
RG - unless Kaczur slides there; OBurger, Bustey & Connelly are junk
DE - and not just a former DT; I mean a real DE with real pass-rushing skills
OLB - see WR above
SILB - Guyton absolutely sux; Junior was our best run-stopper
CB - to ensure that Wheatley & Wilhite never see the field again

Why do you insist on polluting the board with your garbage? Seriously. How do you know that Orhnberger, Bussey and Connolly are junk? Connolly actually played pretty well, but he is a JAG. A JAG is not junk. The other two are rookies... How could you evaluate them with the limited playing time they had?

DE - What kind of formation do you want the guy to play in? 4-3 or 3-4? A 4-3 DE is different than a 3-4 DE. 3-4 2 Gap DEs do NOT rush the passer on a regular basis. They get the sacks if they are there. Otherwise, their job is to control 2 gaps so the LBers can make plays..

Guyton isn't a SILB. Whatever made you think that he was is beyond me. He's more of a WILB behind Mayo.

WR - the pats don't need to bring in 3 more WR... they don't have the roster slots for them.