Turn the clock back to the late 1990s: Leadership

[upstater1]

Leaders are sometimes made and not born.

Willie McGinest was an oft-injured malcontent.
Kevin Faulk was a oft-fumbling Grier-reject.
Tedy Bruschi was a limited backup.
Lawyer Milloy was THE team's leader, a guy who later showed he had much more interest in money.
Ty Law was already a good player, but was he a leader?
Troy Brown was a leader, yes.
Mike Vrabel was a backup on another team.

The point is, we had no idea where the core leadership of the Super Bowl championship was coming from.

If you were to refer to Faulk, McGinest, Bruschi and Vrabel as the key leadership guys for the future 3-time Super Bowl champions 5 or 7 years into the future, people would have raised their eyebrows and thought you were crazy.

I'm not saying we need 5 years for our young guys to come around, nor am I saying that ANY of these young guys will become leaders, but in the NFL it seems players get grizzly and grow into their leadership roles.

No one here can say what is to become of Mayo, Sanders, Guyton, Meriweather, Welker, Vollmer, Butler etc. These could be the Patriots leadership for a Super Bowl in the final Brady year. We just don't know, but saying they lack character when they are so young? That's a cop out. McGinest and Faulk in particular showed a lot less in their first years.

Clearly, we need leadership from the DE/OLB slots, and those guys are NOT on this team right now. But the potential is there in the D-backfield, at ILB, on the OL, and the skill positions with Welker and Brady. There may be glue guys like Troy Brown on the team as well in Lockett, Arrington, Edelman, etc.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Leaders are sometimes made and not born.

Willie McGinest was an oft-injured malcontent.
Kevin Faulk was a oft-fumbling Grier-reject.
Tedy Bruschi was a limited backup.
Lawyer Milloy was THE team's leader, a guy who later showed he had much more interest in money.
Ty Law was already a good player, but was he a leader?
Troy Brown was a leader, yes.
Mike Vrabel was a backup on another team.

The point is, we had no idea where the core leadership of the Super Bowl championship was coming from.

If you were to refer to Faulk, McGinest, Bruschi and Vrabel as the key leadership guys for the future 3-time Super Bowl champions 5 or 7 years into the future, people would have raised their eyebrows and thought you were crazy.

I'm not saying we need 5 years for our young guys to come around, nor am I saying that ANY of these young guys will become leaders, but in the NFL it seems players get grizzly and grow into their leadership roles.

No one here can say what is to become of Mayo, Sanders, Guyton, Meriweather, Welker, Vollmer, Butler etc. These could be the Patriots leadership for a Super Bowl in the final Brady year. We just don't know, but saying they lack character when they are so young? That's a cop out. McGinest and Faulk in particular showed a lot less in their first years.

Clearly, we need leadership from the DE/OLB slots, and those guys are NOT on this team right now. But the potential is there in the D-backfield, at ILB, on the OL, and the skill positions with Welker and Brady. There may be glue guys like Troy Brown on the team as well in Lockett, Arrington, Edelman, etc.

There certainly is no leadership in the area up front on the D

For as good as Warren and Wilfork are,they do not have the knack of being a leadership quality player and that certainly hurts with a team with so many youngsters and replacements mixed in. - they play the game well but if you want the others on defense motivated then look elsewhere.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

mcginest showed alot less in early years?

faulk has been doing what he has been doing all along.......

you need to come up with a better argument or try a different point altogether

 

[upstater1]

mcginest showed alot less in early years?

faulk has been doing what he has been doing all along.......

you need to come up with a better argument or try a different point altogether

Wait a second, were you a Patriots fan in the 1990s?

My God, McGinest was considered an injury prone DE!! In 3 years under Carroll, he played in 35 games and had 14 sacks total. He was the 4th pick in the draft. 4.5 sacks a year!!!!! 11.5 games a year!!!!

You can't be serious.

Faulk? He was ridiculed and laughed at as everything that was wrong with Bobby Grier!

Please, I remember this like yesterday. Willie was considered a mix of Adalius Thomas/Richard Seymour back then.

I'm not at all saying that Willie was a malcontent or that he changed drastically, but I do know he was not considered the leader he later became.

 

[Rob0729]

A few things about the late 90s team not mentioned.

- One of the most common term used during that time was players "running up the back stairs to BG's office". That was that the team were so selfish and lacked the respect for Carroll that they went around him. Many of those players are the players mentioned.
- After Ty Law signed his contract, he was considered a lazy underachiever who stopped trying after he got paid. It wasn't until Crennel got here that he reversed that trend.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Wait a second, were you a Patriots fan in the 1990s?

My God, McGinest was considered an injury prone DE!! In 3 years under Carroll, he played in 35 games and had 14 sacks total. He was the 4th pick in the draft. 4.5 sacks a year!!!!! 11.5 games a year!!!!

You can't be serious.

Faulk? He was ridiculed and laughed at as everything that was wrong with Bobby Grier!

Please, I remember this like yesterday. Don't tell me McGinest was considered a leader back then. He missed half of each season and people kept saying he refuses to play hurt and doesn't play his heart out. He was considered a mix of Adalius Thomas/Richard Seymour back then. He had character issues.

I'm not at all saying that Willie was a malcontent or that he changed drastically, but I do know he was not considered the leader he later became.

I agree, in fact McGinnest was left unprotected even after the 2001 SB win for the expansion draft and I know lots of fans that would have preferred to see him taken. He really didn't become a "heroic leader" until 2003, his 10th season if my math is correct.

You're right about Faulk and Law too. In fact wasn't Law was caught with E pills at the border in 2000.

I support the notion created by this thread, there's been a changing of the guard. We may have lost leadership over the years, but there's plenty we can gain.

 

[upstater1]

A few things about the late 90s team not mentioned.

- One of the most common term used during that time was players "running up the back stairs to BG's office". That was that the team were so selfish and lacked the respect for Carroll that they went around him. Many of those players are the players mentioned.
- After Ty Law signed his contract, he was considered a lazy underachiever who stopped trying after he got paid. It wasn't until Crennel got here that he reversed that trend.

The thing I keep seeing when I think of Carroll going to the Seahawks is when the Patriots with Bledsoe were mounting an improbable late game comeback against I don't know who, and Drew was running the no huddle with precision with under a minute left, and they got to the opposition's 45. Carroll was right there along the sideline, and the camera showed him demanding a timeout (I don't know why he didn't or couldn't call it himself to a ref) but Bledsoe waved him off, and what is seared into my memory is watching Terry Glenn stand right in front of Carroll as he lined up for the play, and Glenn was shaking his head like he was saying, "Are you out of your mind?!!!" and what did Carroll do? He didn't call timeout to the ref. He backed down and shut up.

I don't remember what happened next but I still remember thinking that Carroll had lost the respect of the team, that Bledsoe was the de facto leader, and that I'm not sure I could even blame the players because the last thing Carroll should have been doing when the Patriots were rolling down the field is call a timeout.

 

[xmarkd400x]

The thing I keep seeing when I think of Carroll going to the Seahawks is when the Patriots with Bledsoe were mounting an improbable late game comeback against I don't know who, and Drew was running the no huddle with precision with under a minute left, and they got to the opposition's 45. Carroll was right there along the sideline, and the camera showed him demanding a timeout (I don't know why he didn't or couldn't call it himself to a ref) but Bledsoe waved him off, and what is seared into my memory is watching Terry Glenn stand right in front of Carroll as he lined up for the play, and Glenn was shaking his head like he was saying, "Are you out of your mind?!!!" and what did Carroll do? He didn't call timeout to the ref. He backed down and shut up.

I don't remember what happened next but I still remember thinking that Carroll had lost the respect of the team, that Bledsoe was the de facto leader, and that I'm not sure I could even blame the players because the last thing Carroll should have been doing when the Patriots were rolling down the field is call a timeout.

Didn't Adam V. also shank a kick to end Carroll's tenure here?

 

[RayClay]

Leaders are sometimes made and not born.

Willie McGinest was an oft-injured malcontent.
Kevin Faulk was a oft-fumbling Grier-reject.
Tedy Bruschi was a limited backup.
Lawyer Milloy was THE team's leader, a guy who later showed he had much more interest in money.
Ty Law was already a good player, but was he a leader?
Troy Brown was a leader, yes.
Mike Vrabel was a backup on another team.

The point is, we had no idea where the core leadership of the Super Bowl championship was coming from.

If you were to refer to Faulk, McGinest, Bruschi and Vrabel as the key leadership guys for the future 3-time Super Bowl champions 5 or 7 years into the future, people would have raised their eyebrows and thought you were crazy.

I'm not saying we need 5 years for our young guys to come around, nor am I saying that ANY of these young guys will become leaders, but in the NFL it seems players get grizzly and grow into their leadership roles.

No one here can say what is to become of Mayo, Sanders, Guyton, Meriweather, Welker, Vollmer, Butler etc. These could be the Patriots leadership for a Super Bowl in the final Brady year. We just don't know, but saying they lack character when they are so young? That's a cop out. McGinest and Faulk in particular showed a lot less in their first years.

Clearly, we need leadership from the DE/OLB slots, and those guys are NOT on this team right now. But the potential is there in the D-backfield, at ILB, on the OL, and the skill positions with Welker and Brady. There may be glue guys like Troy Brown on the team as well in Lockett, Arrington, Edelman, etc.

Great post, I was thinking the same thing. Let's get a better coaching staff and get back to basics. Leadership evolves. We don't need another expensive free agents making humble pie t shirts.