Tear up this coaching staff

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

This game just tears it for me. I've been saying it all year we need to bring in some new blood for our coaching staff. Bill O'Brien and Dean Pees are just a couple Yes Men. One of the great advantages of Weiss/McDaniels and Crennel was that they had the balls to challenge BB's opinion. We need to bring in some outside brain power. I've been very happy with BB's ability to train coaches but you can't expect it to have infinite potential. Get Crennel back (or raid the staff of a good 3-4 team) and hire an established OC.

 

[QB12]

Look for the good soldier Dean Pees to make it easy for BB by tendering his resignation . . . Would be tremendous if RAC came back as DC.

QB12

 

[DefenseRules]

Look for the good soldier Dean Pees to make it easy for BB by tendering his resignation . . . Would be tremendous if RAC came back as DC.

QB12

I thought that RAC signed with KC.

 

[teknos1s]

Mentioned this a little earlier but here it is:

We score a TD early in the 2nd half making it a 17 point game (We're in it right!!??"

Here comes the kickoff: we kick it to the 30 yard line allowing the ravens to return it to the 50yd line and thus scoring a TD making it a 25point game after the 2pt conversion!?!?!?

Now im not sure if its a botched kick or it was a coaching call but i think it was a coaching call. And if so i dont see the logic at all. We made the ravens offense punt the previous 2 or 3 drives. why didnt we kick it deep to make them drive it deep?! we could have made them punt instead of scoring again and if we scored it would have been a 10 point game going into the 4th

 

[blackglass3]

Look for the good soldier Dean Pees to make it easy for BB by tendering his resignation . . . Would be tremendous if RAC came back as DC.

QB12

The day Pees resigns I will be pushing to make a National Holiday.

To think we had Dom Capers here last year and BB chose Pees over him...do we have a vomit smilie?

 

[zipster9]

I thought that RAC signed with KC.

No. It was Charlie Weiss that signed with KC. Crennel is still free. I say get him, and you really do need a OC that talks with Brady.

 

[pats_premi]

This game just tears it for me. I've been saying it all year we need to bring in some new blood for our coaching staff. Bill O'Brien and Dean Pees are just a couple Yes Men. One of the great advantages of Weiss/McDaniels and Crennel was that they had the balls to challenge BB's opinion. We need to bring in some outside brain power. I've been very happy with BB's ability to train coaches but you can't expect it to have infinite potential. Get Crennel back (or raid the staff of a good 3-4 team) and hire an established OC.

:agree: BB's has too many yes men and there is no one to challenge his opinon, and this is having an effect on creativity on both offense and defense.

How about ?
1) Mike Martz as OC. The Patriots are likely to remain passing team while Brady is the QB. Might as well get pass happy creative coach to help Brady.

2) Bobby April - ex Bill's special teams coach. Bill's always had one of the top special teams units in the league under his coaching.

3) Ex-player as position coaches ? Otis Smith - DB coach, Bryan cox LB coach, Christian Forier (sp?) TE coach ? I am not sure of all of the young position coaches who never played the game are able to help the young players to the full extent.

 

[pats1]

No. It was Charlie Weiss that signed with KC. Crennel is still free. I say get him, and you really do need a OC that talks with Brady.

Well, Crennel has been heavily linked to KC in the past few weeks.

 

[pats1]

It's a young coaching staff. Why would you tear it up when you have younger guys like Shane Waldron, Chad O'Shea, Josh Boyer, Matt Patricia, Brian Ferentz, Patrick Graham, and Brian Flores all on it? I really don't think BB will just cut ties with O'Brien or Pees, either. He almost never does that with his coaches. He let's them work out their growing pains and continues to help them develop. O'Brien was an offensive assistant two years ago. He was the wide receivers coach last year. That leaves the older guys like Pepper, Scar, Fears, and Scott O'Brien. They're not the problem...

 

[blackglass3]

:agree: BB's has too many yes men and there is no one to challenge his opinon, and this is having an effect on creativity on both offense and defense.

How about ?
1) Mike Martz as OC. The Patriots are likely to remain passing team while Brady is the QB. Might as well get pass happy creative coach to help Brady.

2) Bobby April - ex Bill's special teams coach. Bill's always had one of the top special teams units in the league under his coaching.

3) Ex-player as position coaches ? Otis Smith - DB coach, Bryan cox LB coach, Christian Forier (sp?) TE coach ? I am not sure of all of the young position coaches who never played the game are able to help the young players to the full extent.

Martz would be a crazy gamble here. From what I have read, his offenses are super complicated and hard for QB's to pick up. Plus, Brady has been using one offensive terminology since he got here and a change might be difficult for him.

OTOH, the last few QB's Martz has worked with (O'Sullivan, Kitna, Alex Smith) have been pretty piss poor. Most any WR can produce in the system, and a back that can catch (Faulk, maybe Maroney) could be very solid also. AND BB could focus soley on defense and let Martz worry about the offense stuff which would be pretty helpful.

 

[pats1]

Head Coach - Bill Belichick (57 y/o)

Quarterbacks - Bill O'Brien (40 y/o)
Running Backs - Ivan Fears (55 y/o)
Wide Receivers - Chad O'Shea (37 y/o)
Offensive Line/AHC - Dante Scarnecchia (61 y/o)
Tight Ends - Shane Waldron (30 y/o)
Offensive Coaching Assistant - Brian Ferentz (26 y/o)

Defensive Coordinator - Dean Pees (60 y/o)
Defensive Line - Pepper Johnson (45 y/o)
Linebackers - Matt Patricia (35 y/o)
Defensive Backs - Josh Boyer (32 y/o)
Defensive Coaching Assistant - Patrick Graham (30 y/o)

Special Teams - Scott O'Brien (52 y/o)
Special Teams Coaching Assistant - Brian Flores (28 y/o)


...Exactly what part of this staff do you want "torn up?"

 

[pats1]

This game just tears it for me. I've been saying it all year we need to bring in some new blood for our coaching staff. Bill O'Brien and Dean Pees are just a couple Yes Men. One of the great advantages of Weiss/McDaniels and Crennel was that they had the balls to challenge BB's opinion. We need to bring in some outside brain power. I've been very happy with BB's ability to train coaches but you can't expect it to have infinite potential. Get Crennel back (or raid the staff of a good 3-4 team) and hire an established OC.

That's not BB's philosophy. He promotes from within and trains his coaches to his own system.

 

[DaBruinz]

This game just tears it for me. I've been saying it all year we need to bring in some new blood for our coaching staff. Bill O'Brien and Dean Pees are just a couple Yes Men. One of the great advantages of Weiss/McDaniels and Crennel was that they had the balls to challenge BB's opinion. We need to bring in some outside brain power. I've been very happy with BB's ability to train coaches but you can't expect it to have infinite potential. Get Crennel back (or raid the staff of a good 3-4 team) and hire an established OC.

How do you know that O'Brien and Pees are "Yes Men"? Have you sat in on the planning meetings and seen this?

I agree that O'Brien is in over his head. He doesn't have the rapport with Brady that Weis and McDaniels had. It also doesn't help that this is O'Brien's 1st year as QB Coach and he's got the play calling dumped on him as well as having to work to establish the rapport with Brady.

As for Pees, I think he's done a great job with what he's been given to work with. And it was Pees idea to move to the 4-3 as the base this year.

What I find interesting is that no one is directly calling out Matt Patricia for the poor development of the linebackers over the last 3 years. Personally, I'd rather see a new LBer coach. Someone with experience and who could really bring Mayo, Guyton and TBC up to that next level consistently.

 

[Jackson 2]

It's a young coaching staff. Why would you tear it up when you have younger guys like Shane Waldron, Chad O'Shea, Josh Boyer, Matt Patricia, Brian Ferentz, Patrick Graham, and Brian Flores all on it? I really don't think BB will just cut ties with O'Brien or Pees, either. He almost never does that with his coaches. He let's them work out their growing pains and continues to help them develop. O'Brien was an offensive assistant two years ago. He was the wide receivers coach last year. That leaves the older guys like Pepper, Scar, Fears, and Scott O'Brien. They're not the problem...

Holy cow! A reasoned response from someone who's done his/her homework. Thank you.

 

[bam15]

Martz would be a crazy gamble here. From what I have read, his offenses are super complicated and hard for QB's to pick up. Plus, Brady has been using one offensive terminology since he got here and a change might be difficult for him.

OTOH, the last few QB's Martz has worked with (O'Sullivan, Kitna, Alex Smith) have been pretty piss poor. Most any WR can produce in the system, and a back that can catch (Faulk, maybe Maroney) could be very solid also. AND BB could focus soley on defense and let Martz worry about the offense stuff which would be pretty helpful.

His offense is extremely complicated, I think only Al Saunders would have a more complicated system. An example of how in-depth it is would be this - Charlie Weis's 2004 playbook is 135 pages, the Rams 2001 is 414 pages. Huge difference in terminology as well for example Martz play call may be - Bunch RT Zip Bronco RT 940 Ricky [Yes that is a actual play], while Weis - 1 Out Slot 73 Return Seam. The Patriots have used this same system since 2001, and it would be strange to say the least to see a Patriots team running a different system. That said the Patriots offense of 2004 is drastically different then the garbage we are running right now, but with the exact same Terminology/Nomenclature. Most of the Erhardt-Perkins is numbered formations etc., and it does not use a 3-digit system like Martz, where 940 Ricky means X runs a 9 Route, Y a 4, and Z a 0 Route.

The system Martz runs is basically the same exact offense Norv Turner runs with some modifications, and it can be extremely successful with the right personal [Greatest Show on Turf]. That said I wouldn't want to take a gamble on him and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if BB brought in Jeff Davidson or Chris Palmer.

 

[MrTibbs]

As predictable an offense the Patriots had this season. An offense which hit the TE's less then 50 times all season. An offense who finished near the bottom of the NFL in rushing and and probably rushing attempts.

I'd say a new OC would be in order. I'm not a Pees fan at all either but lack of talent at LB is a major culprit there. His lack of an attacking style blows along with that read and react outdated crap. Great defenses dictate the game and mediocre defenses like the Patriots get it taken to them by having the flow of the game dictated to them. They basically are waiting to see what's coming at them. We need a "Get on your horses and ride" type of defense.

Change is needed.

 

[TP76]

Would rather they tear up the scheme and offensive philosophy. This TE version of the run-n-shoot as a base has to go. It may have surprised teams in 2007, but they've caught up with it. Commit to the running game and get these guys used to playing smashmouth football. Get a true blocking FB who can catch out of the backfield. Move Welker over to a #2 and put him in motion, with plenty of play action. This spread em and run em where they ain't mentality is making the OL and the team soft. Right now we have the very same problems that run-n-shoot teams typically face - Inability to kill clock with sustaining late game drives and red zone inefficiency.

We need balance.

 

[pats_premi]

Martz would be a crazy gamble here. From what I have read, his offenses are super complicated and hard for QB's to pick up. Plus, Brady has been using one offensive terminology since he got here and a change might be difficult for him.

Back when the Rams were the greatest team on turf, I recall BB's saying in one of his press conferences that he incorporates plays in Patriots offense from Mike Martz playbook. If that is true, I am thinking that the transition may not be that bad.
In terms of terminology, it may be simpler for Mike Martz to learn the terminology used in the Patriots playbook than 25 players learning new terminology.

 

[mgteich]

I WOULD FIRE NONE OF THE COACHES, EXCEPT PERHAPS FOR THE WR COACH. See below for explanations. However, I would hire additional coaches. I would hire an OC, an assistant OL coach (to help dante), and even an assistant OC, and an assistant DL coach (to groom to replace Pepper).

In the end, as much as I have complained about Obrien's job as acting OC, that is not his problem. He simply should stay in his job as QB coach and work with Hoyer, Stanback and whoever else we bring in.

Let's just stop pretending that we don't need anyone in the OC function since we have Brady, Moss, dante and Belichick all doing part of that fdunction. Let's bring in an OC and perhaps even an assistant OC. Our playbook and game schemes need a major overhaul!

A) I would give bonuses to all the defensive coaches. They all had significant challenges, and they all did well.
B) Dante is a great coach now, as he has been for years. I would hire an OL assistant for him.
C) Fears is a fine coach. The running backs have been coached well.
D) Is Obrein an OK QB coach? I suppose so if he is measured by teh development of Hoyer and the saving of a roster spot. He is not help to Brady on Game Day (if at all).
E) Waldron ssems to have done fine using linemen as his 3rd TE. Watson and Baker certainly ahve done their jobs,
F) And what should we say abour our inexperienced WR coach? May be he is responsible for Edelman's success and the failure of Lewis and Galloway. It is hard to tell.

Head Coach - Bill Belichick (57 y/o)

Quarterbacks - Bill O'Brien (40 y/o)
Running Backs - Ivan Fears (55 y/o)
Wide Receivers - Chad O'Shea (37 y/o)
Offensive Line/AHC - Dante Scarnecchia (61 y/o)
Tight Ends - Shane Waldron (30 y/o)
Offensive Coaching Assistant - Brian Ferentz (26 y/o)

Defensive Coordinator - Dean Pees (60 y/o)
Defensive Line - Pepper Johnson (45 y/o)
Linebackers - Matt Patricia (35 y/o)
Defensive Backs - Josh Boyer (32 y/o)
Defensive Coaching Assistant - Patrick Graham (30 y/o)

Special Teams - Scott O'Brien (52 y/o)
Special Teams Coaching Assistant - Brian Flores (28 y/o)


...Exactly what part of this staff do you want "torn up?"

 

[klinefan]

Head Coach - Bill Belichick (57 y/o)

Quarterbacks - Bill O'Brien (40 y/o)
Running Backs - Ivan Fears (55 y/o)
Wide Receivers - Chad O'Shea (37 y/o)
Offensive Line/AHC - Dante Scarnecchia (61 y/o)
Tight Ends - Shane Waldron (30 y/o)
Offensive Coaching Assistant - Brian Ferentz (26 y/o)

Defensive Coordinator - Dean Pees (60 y/o)
Defensive Line - Pepper Johnson (45 y/o)
Linebackers - Matt Patricia (35 y/o)
Defensive Backs - Josh Boyer (32 y/o)
Defensive Coaching Assistant - Patrick Graham (30 y/o)

Special Teams - Scott O'Brien (52 y/o)
Special Teams Coaching Assistant - Brian Flores (28 y/o)


...Exactly what part of this staff do you want "torn up?"

All of it. Fire them all.

"Mr. Gorbachev, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!".

"Mr. Kraft, TEAR DOWN THIS COACHING STAFF."

The pats fans are being held hostage to incompetent coaches and washed up players.