The soon-to-be-unpopular "Time to draft a TE" thread.

[dryheat44]

I definitely think we need a TE who can take over the passing game when needed...a Dallas Clark or Jason Witten type who can reliably carry the offense when/if Moss and Wes are taken out of the game. I go back and forth whether that's Gresham, whom I think is the best all-around TE to come out in a couple of years, and is probably a much better blocker (Witten), or the just-declared Aaron Hernandez, who might not run a great 40 time, but can seem to get open at will and play out in space (Clark).

Watson is gone, Baker's not really a receiving threat, and it wouldn't surprise me to see Belichick spend a first rounder on either one of them if he doesn't like any of the DEs or LBs that are available when he's on the clock.

 

[BelichickFan]

I also think this will be a high priority but Brady just doesn't seem to like to throw to TE the way Bledsoe always looked to Coates. I'm not saying Graham, Watson, et al, are as good as Coates but whether it's the offense of Brady, I don't like "a TE who can take over the passing game when needed" is in the offing. That said, Belichick loves his TE and may not be able to resist a Gresham who he normally wouldn't be able to get without the injury. The Iowa TE looked really good too - good blocker and hung onto everything thrown to him when I was watching.

Regarding popularity - with all these picks, it's fine to use one on a TE but not if we end up trading up so that we only have, say, two picks in the first three rounds because we do need OL, defense and maybe WR depending how they like Tate.

 

[everlong]

Considering they simply don't use TEs the way the Colts or Cowboys do I see no reason to use a first rounder on a TE again. I still don't understand why they gave up on Thomas. The kid was great on special teams, ran good routes, was an adequate blocker. I'd much rather take a shot on guy in the third round which is where Whitten and Cooley were drafted.

 

[BritPat]

There's some decent FA's about to hit the market.

Owen Daniels (he could be Franchised)
Tony Scheffler (has acted the punk this season but he has talent)
Bo Scaife (superb all round player)
Anthony Fasano (probably my favourite out of the lot).

Could we pick up one of those and draft one on day two - Tony Moeaki? Ed ****son?

 

[BritPat]

Considering they simply don't use TEs the way the Colts or Cowboys do I see no reason to use a first rounder on a TE again. I still don't understand why they gave up on Thomas. The kid was great on special teams, ran good routes, was an adequate blocker. I'd much rather take a shot on guy in the third round which is where Whitten and Cooley were drafted.

Exactly.

Thomas was a potential star that didn't cost much to run, and he did contribute. The Saints have already got more out of him than we ever did.

 

[klinefan]

So why don't they use the TE more? What is the deal-io?

Too busy running 4 and 5 wide?

Power running games work really well in the post season as the Jetsies are about to show, I believe.

 

[NePatriots]

So why don't they use the TE more? What is the deal-io?

Too busy running 4 and 5 wide?

Power running games work really well in the post season as the Jetsies are about to show, I believe.

The Patriots use their tight-ends where they are needed... as they are quite versatile. Some years they have been featured in the passing game, this year they were needed to help out our injured offensive line in the blocking game. Doesn't make them any less important.

 

[dryheat44]

Considering they simply don't use TEs the way the Colts or Cowboys do ....

Is that by design, or a function of not having a TE of that caliber? I would feel much more comfortable having another reliable set of hands in 3 WR sets instead of the Sam Aikens and Ben Watsons of the world.

 

[BritPat]

So why don't they use the TE more? What is the deal-io?

Too busy running 4 and 5 wide?

Power running games work really well in the post season as the Jetsies are about to show, I believe.

When was the last time a power running game lit up the Playoffs and propelled a team to the Superbowl?

 

[everlong]

Is that by design, or a function of not having a TE of that caliber? I would feel much more comfortable having another reliable set of hands in 3 WR sets instead of the Sam Aikens and Ben Watsons of the world.

Watson or Graham before him certainly don't run the best routes or have the best hands but what percentage of the time are they getting out into the pattern? Graham certainly was lower than Watson but that was a different offense.

Watson's 2006 production before we loaded up on WR talent was pretty good. It could have been much better if he could come out of his routes more crisply and if he had more consistent hands.

Would Dustin Keller be used as a receiving TE in this offense?

 

[everlong]

When was the last time a power running game lit up the Playoffs and propelled a team to the Superbowl?

NYG twice, Baltimore, Pitt(05) and Carolina are a few examples from this decade. The Bears to a lesser extent as well although that was more about their defense.

Can you imagine how much better this Patriots offense would be with a young Dillion? Play action would really mean something and open up the passing game much more. I think they need to upgrade at least center on the O-Line to power run but a power running game used as an accent wins games.

 

[BritPat]

NYG twice,

I'll give you the first one (10 years ago!), but not the second. Manning was the leading passer in the Playoffs, and they got to the SB on the back of him not turning the ball over and playing suffocating D.

Baltimore,

Not last year. They really opened the Playbook up for Flacco as the season wore on, and the reason they didn't make the SB was because they couldn't pass it against the Steelers.

Pitt(05)

Ahh, you didn't fall into the trap

That's the last one I saw, and even then, they got the ring on the back o f a finesse performance from FWP rather than Bettis running it down the Seahawks throats.

and Carolina

One and done last year? It's hardly lighting it up.

The Bears to a lesser extent as well although that was more about their defense.

That's the thing, people forget how well Grossman played in the Divisional round against the Seahawks. Granted they smashed the Saints to bits on the ground but then everyone did that year anyway. They lost the Superbowl because they couldn't pass the ball - they forget Jones had a great game.

Can you imagine how much better this Patriots offense would be with a young Dillion? Play action would really mean something and open up the passing game much more. I think they need to upgrade at least center on the O-Line to power run but a power running game used as an accent wins games.

That I agree with.

You don't need to have a power running game to be successful, certainly not in this day and age where pass is king, but it does help. The main thing is, you need to be able to pass the ball first and foremost. And not turn it over.

The Jets will do well if they play fantastic D and win the turnover battle, but if Sanchez continues to throw INT's like confetti, they'll be one and done, whether they have 300 yards rushing or not.

 

[everlong]

My comments were all about SB Teams.

Raven 00
Giants 00
Panthers 03
Steelers 05
Bears 06
Giants 07

A big part of the Giants 07 success was Jacobs. Also I was talking about the entirety of their seasons. Panthers didn't run the ball well in the SB vs the Patriots and Delhomme lit them up but they don't get that far without Foster and Davis as an example.

 

[BritPat]

The point is, the rules have changed since the Steelers in '05. It's a passing league now, whether it's the Playoffs or the regular season. The passing teams win. The running teams don't. If the Jets can't pass it they won't win. Not unless the Bengals self-destruct anyway.

 

[carolinatony]

Considering they simply don't use TEs the way the Colts or Cowboys do I see no reason to use a first rounder on a TE again. I still don't understand why they gave up on Thomas. The kid was great on special teams, ran good routes, was an adequate blocker. I'd much rather take a shot on guy in the third round which is where Whitten and Cooley were drafted.


What he said.
We all know we need some pass rushers and OL help... OG and C imo.

 

[everlong]

The point is, the rules have changed since the Steelers in '05. It's a passing league now, whether it's the Playoffs or the regular season. The passing teams win. The running teams don't. If the Jets can't pass it they won't win. Not unless the Bengals self-destruct anyway.

I tend to agree but that doesn't change the fact that we don't use our TEs in that manner. If you're calling for a change in philosophy great then let's draft TE high in the draft if we are going to use him as a receiver 90+% of the time on first down. If we're going to continue to be more of a 50/50 team with the TEs I'd prefer a day two choice.

 

[dryheat44]

I tend to agree but that doesn't change the fact that we don't use our TEs in that manner. If you're calling for a change in philosophy great then let's draft TE high in the draft if we are going to use him as a receiver 90+% of the time on first down. If we're going to continue to be more of a 50/50 team with the TEs I'd prefer a day two choice.

It comes down to "Planet Theory" and creating mismatches. I agree that our bigger needs are LB, DE, OL, or even WR but if nobody is available at those positions at our first round pick that are worth a first round pick, then I would expect BB to pick up a tight end that is too big for DBs to cover and too fast for LBs. I don't think that getting said player on the field entails changing the offensive philosophy, which is to create a mismatch in the passing game and exploit it.

 

[WhiZa]

It comes down to "Planet Theory" and creating mismatches. I agree that our bigger needs are LB, DE, OL, or even WR but if nobody is available at those positions at our first round pick that are worth a first round pick, then I would expect BB to pick up a tight end that is too big for DBs to cover and too fast for LBs. I don't think that getting said player on the field entails changing the offensive philosophy, which is to create a mismatch in the passing game and exploit it.

Do you see any TEs in this draft who is big and fast? IMO, Watson is better then anyone who is available this year, and with his numbers down he could be signed at a reasonable price. If he doesn't get resigned, or similar FA, I'm not sure what to think

 

[dryheat44]

Do you see any TEs in this draft who is big and fast? IMO, Watson is better then anyone who is available this year, and with his numbers down he could be signed at a reasonable price. If he doesn't get resigned, or similar FA, I'm not sure what to think

Watson certainly has a better size/speed combination than anybody available. However, he seems to struggle to get open more than he should, and his hands are subpar. I think either Gresham or Hernandez would be better in the receiving department, even if they're slower in a straight line or have a lesser vertical jump. However, even in the first round they'd be considerably cheaper than re-signing Watson, who's destined to take a sizable contract in Cleveland or Carolina. I suspect Hernandez isn't as good as a blocker as Watson, but frankly as improved as he is from a few years ago, Watson isn't any better than slightly above average in the passing game, and below average in the running game.

 

[The Intimidator]

There's some decent FA's about to hit the market.

Owen Daniels (he could be Franchised)
Tony Scheffler (has acted the punk this season but he has talent)
Bo Scaife (superb all round player)
Anthony Fasano (probably my favourite out of the lot).

Could we pick up one of those and draft one on day two - Tony Moeaki? Ed ****son?

Owen Daniels is coming off a torn ACL and may not be back next season, not too mention he may not ever have the same production ever again.

Tony Scheffler wouldn't be bad in this offense as a 3rd or 4th option. He could be a reliable option in the passing game and wouldn't cost that much at all. I would consider him if he can his head out of his %%%...

I love Fasano because of his ability to catch the ball and make the ordinary play, and you will also get the big play out of him every now and then. He can also block. I would really like him, though I think the Dolphins will retain him.

The overall sentiment of this thread I believe is wrong right now. We don't need a Jason Witten as a Tight End and would be foolish to take one in the first round. We have MUCH bigger needs then getting a pass catching Tight end. Focus on the D-Line/OLB, RB, OL and WR before thinking about the TE.

Maybe the 4th or 5th round, but certainly not in the first round.