OT: Brian Cushing wins Defensive ROY

[mayoclinic]

ok i exagerrated bit. but i'm talking draft not trade or free agent. I'll give you brady, light, koppen, neal, graham, branch, wilfork, seymour, samuel, wilson. all those guys were good, but there were a lot of guys from the parcells era that helped too. and these guys you mentioned were drafted years ago.

Of course they were, since we last won the SB in 2004, and we're talking about players that helped us win the SB. No one drafted from 2005 on had anything to do with that.

And it should be expected that as BB took the Pats over in 2000, most of the players he had in 2001 when we first won the SB were inherited from the previous regime.

 

[captain stone]

Drafting has been a weak spot for the Patriots from 2004-2008 and possibly 2009 depending on what happens. This is why we struggle at times and can no longer put away opponents.

Fixed it for ya; otherwise, all unfortunately true, though '05 was by far the best of the 5 years previous to this year.

 

[JackBauer]

maybe you're right but my point is that we could have drafted an impact player last year early on and didn't. vollmer is a good pick but it'll take him another year at least. there are others i didn't mention either like Maclin or clay matthews, vontae davis. i know maclin was drafted a bit higher than 23 but i don't think it would have taken much to get him. cushing i thought was drafted much lower - that's my mistake.

drafting has been a weak spot for the patriots from 2005-2008 and possibly 2009 depending on what happens. this is why we struggle at times and can no longer put away opponents.

What are you talking about? Vollmer has ALREADY played LT and RT. And now, even when Kaczur is healthy, it appears Vollmer has RT on lock.

IMO, the struggles this year are much more FA-related than draft-related.

 

[SyN65]

What are you talking about? Vollmer has ALREADY played LT and RT. And now, even when Kaczur is healthy, it appears Vollmer has RT on lock.

IMO, the struggles this year are much more FA-related than draft-related.

I agree. A lot of the players we brought in to help us have either done pretty much nothing (looking at you Burgess) or not panned out. (Galloway, Lewis, Alex Smith...)

 

[GroganCountry]

vollmer is a good pick but it'll take him another year at least.

I don't necessarily agree with this at all. You can make an argument that outside of Oher, Vollmer has been the best O Lineman selected in the previous draft. I think he'll get better but he has played extremely well already.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

That's fine, opinion is good when it's thoughtful, yours wasn't. I don't like the Yankees either and Yankee fans even less because of their whiney, petulant, picayune ways. That was what I was alluding to. Sorry you missed it.

have you not been on this board at all this year? there has been a tremendous amount of whiney, petulant and picayune behavior.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Of course they were, since we last won the SB in 2004, and we're talking about players that helped us win the SB. No one drafted from 2005 on had anything to do with that.

And it should be expected that as BB took the Pats over in 2000, most of the players he had in 2001 when we first won the SB were inherited from the previous regime.

i mean i'm just in a complaining mode right now. there are a lot of missed opportunities from this organization since 2004. for the draft specifically, there are a few really good players we could have taken instead of Chung. Why did BB focus in on CHung I have no idea. Even people on this board had Matthews, Vontae Davis and Meulegua on their draft board. When we have no pass rush and trade away Seymour and Vrabel and cannot obtain Peppers, doens't it makes sense to draft a pass rusher with your first pick, esp. if Matthews and Meluga are available? Maybe we needed a safety but Sanders and Merriweather are decent enough.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I don't necessarily agree with this at all. You can make an argument that outside of Oher, Vollmer has been the best O Lineman selected in the previous draft. I think he'll get better but he has played extremely well already.

i meant one more year to be pro-bowl caliber.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

What are you talking about? Vollmer has ALREADY played LT and RT. And now, even when Kaczur is healthy, it appears Vollmer has RT on lock.

IMO, the struggles this year are much more FA-related than draft-related.

i actually meant early on with the first 2 picks in last year's draft.

 

[Remix 6]

Revis will be joining him for defensive awards soon...If Revis does not win DPOY there is something wrong.

Charles Woodson says hi

 

[Boots Electric]

i mean i'm just in a complaining mode right now. there are a lot of missed opportunities from this organization since 2004. for the draft specifically, there are a few really good players we could have taken instead of Chung. Why did BB focus in on CHung I have no idea. Even people on this board had Matthews, Vontae Davis and Meulegua on their draft board. When we have no pass rush and trade away Seymour and Vrabel and cannot obtain Peppers, doens't it makes sense to draft a pass rusher with your first pick, esp. if Matthews and Meluga are available? Maybe we needed a safety but Sanders and Merriweather are decent enough.

Chung was taken because of the needs for a SS and because this league is such a pass happy league, that eventually more teams will start utilizing nickel and dime packages. Chung fits in that role. Guy was a beast in college as well.

Cushing is productive this season because Frank Bush has a blitz-heavy freelancing defense. Bush was a linebacker. That's why their linebackers were used heavy and often this season. And it took away from the pretty good season Dunta Robinson had emerging as a pretty good cover corner. That will change next season if Mike Zimmer is hired as Head Coach of the Bengals. It should be the Texans next move because their defense has talent but when you freelance, especially in the AFC, you will never get far.

Clay Matthews, while talented, also benefits from playing in the Capers system.

Rey Maualuga is talented. I'll give people that one.

Vontae Davis is still a very raw talent. I think he's talented, but is starting in Miami because of necessity, not because they are high on him. Here, he would be behind Butler and Wilhite.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Let's be clear, Belichick had a great draft. It is only message board posters who disagree. Kiper recently re-graded us as A-.

We have 14 rookies on the squad (including the two UDFA's). Vollmer will be in everyone's top 10 in the re-drafts. Butler was 1st round value and will be at least a nickel for the next three years. We secured a long snapper, a backup DL and a solid backup slot back. That is a successful draft.

Yes, we had two players who were injured: Tate and McKenzie. We also drafted a group of developmental players who could work out, or not: Ohrnberger, Bussey and Richard.

Yes, there were two top picks who most of us would have changed at the time and in hindsight. We could have had Matthews (or Eric Wood or Nicks or Beanie Wells) at 26 and Laurinitis (or Sintim or Barwin or Unger or LeVitre) at 34 instead of Chung, Brace and Tate. So, yes, I think we could have done better.

And, of course, we will go into the 2010 offseason considering the same roster needs, hoping to secure players as good as those we passed on to get Chung and Brace.

Finally, I would note that Chung and Brace are not bad picks. Chung has been a solid special teamer and contributed more than Meriweather or Sanders did in their first year. Brace is a backup DL, and hoepfully a backup NT. We had the picks and tried our best to get a future top 3-4 NT. These are extremely difficult to find.

God, we could have had Matthews AND Lauranitis, the thought of that just made me sick to my stomach (in fact, it's just re-visiting my stomach sickness from late April 2009 watching the draft). BB has really outsmarted himself too many times in the draft lately. If you keep trading down, you miss out on elite talent, and settle for MORE mediocre picks. Not saying Butler or Chung won't be good, but Matthews and Lauranitis are ALREADY good, and can be great. Add Matthews and Lauranitis to this defense, and we are SB contenders (not pretenders). Enough with the trading down, make the god damned picks !

 

[BritPat]

Cushing is productive this season because Frank Bush has a blitz-heavy freelancing defense. Bush was a linebacker. That's why their linebackers were used heavy and often this season.

Haven't seen Cushing blitzing as often as you make out if I'm honest (although clearly I've not seen a whole load of the Texans). If anything he's the one that's been dropping back into the passing lanes from what I've seen. His all round game has been exceptional - pass rushing, run defense and pass coverage.

What he has to do with us though? Will people be questioning why we didn't Draft Ndamukong Suh or Eric Berry this time next year?

 

[BritPat]

God, we could have had Matthews AND Lauranitis, the thought of that just made me sick to my stomach (in fact, it's just re-visiting my stomach sickness from late April 2009 watching the draft). BB has really outsmarted himself too many times in the draft lately. If you keep trading down, you miss out on elite talent, and settle for MORE mediocre picks. Not saying Butler or Chung won't be good, but Matthews and Lauranitis are ALREADY good, and can be great. Add Matthews and Lauranitis to this defense, and we are SB contenders (not pretenders). Enough with the trading down, make the god damned picks !

Great, so we draft Laurinaitis.....where does he play with Mayo starting at MLB? And he's really not been that good. In fact he's been out-shone by fellow linebacker David Vobora (Last year's Mr. Irrelevant), and a fourth round rookie DT. Far out-shone. Dorrell Scott has been one of the finds of the Draft.

As for Matthews, he's a 3-4, one gap OLB - we've been playing heavy 4-3 and 4-2-5 all season, with the odd game (Dolphins) in a 3-4, and in a 2 gap system. You cannot translate the play of one player in one system being asked to do one thing and automatically assume it's a fit everywhere else.

Either way, saying those two would have won us a Superbowl or whatever, is worthy of getting you institutionalised.

 

[BadMoFo]

If cushing played here, he likely wouldn't have played a down.

Yeah, because there's no way he could have been as productive as Adalius Thomas, Pierre Woods, Shawn Crable, Rob Ninkovich or whoever else played outside linebacker for us (except TBC).

 

[TruthSeeker]

If cushing played here, he likely wouldn't have played a down.

My vote for dumbest post of the year (Hey it's early !).

 

[BritPat]

My vote for dumbest post of the year (Hey it's early !).

I'm guessing klinefan will have a lot of entries. Don't blow your load yet

 

[IcyPatriot]

Says something about the pounding these players take when rookies dominate the stats at a position.

 

[BradyBranch39]

I'd definitely go Woodson over Revis for DPOY.

 

[jsull87]

except we kept trading down because BB did not see any value early on. Seriously, we drafted Chung and Butler instead of Cushing, maleuga and Matthews. Another brilliant draft for BB.

i don't want to ruffle any feathers around here, but it seems to me that Parcells drafted most of the players the composed our dynasty and the drafting has not been the same in a while.

crushing went 15... not when our pick was... good point.
mathews and maleuga i did want. But bb saw a need to plug at saftey with att he time only one saftey on the roster... hence the chung pick. then got first round talent in butler at 41. Now we can be upset with brace but if your going to throw names who we should have picked around... then they will have to b after 40 as that is where we picked brace. mathews and maleuga were gone by then