Would Gaffney have helped this team?? How about Vrabel??

[DaBruinz]

The point is why aren't they here?? The Patriots nickel and dime approach is starting to take a toll.
They lack quality depth and it's killing them.
Sam Aiken and Junior Seau or Jabar Gaffney and Mike Vrabel??
It's no contest!!
And don't talk to me about salary cap and all that nonsense.
That's Bill's spin and it's weak when you see the moves other teams are able to make with their rosters when under the same cap.

First of all, there is no "Patriots Nickel and Dime approach." That is for idiots who don't understand the salary cap. And you claiming that the Salary Cap is nonsense shows that you don't understand much about the different facets of the business.

And the cap isn't the same for every team. The starting point is the same, but the end point isn't. For a variety of reasons. Such as Likely To Be Earned Bonuses and Not Likely To Be Earned Bonuses. And the credits and debits that they get for the ones that are made and not made.

Also, something that you clearly don't comprehend is that the trade off wasn't Gaffney for Aiken. The trade off was Gaffney for Galloway. And, at the time, the Pats thought that they were getting a WR would could work with Brady and run the intermediate routes they needed so as to open things up for Welker and Moss. Hindsight is 20/20.

Also, it wasn't a trade off of Seau for Vrabel. There is a lot more to it than that.

 

[dhamz]

Gaffney is better than anyone else who played the #3 WR - it was a question of whether they thought the $ Denver paid for him was too much. I wouldn't argue with the decision. The problem is the guys who replaced him were a disaster.

Vrabel, God love him, was done as an effective football player and can't help anyone.

 

[Clonamery]

Can we get a "Rear-view Mirror" Forum for some of these nostalgic posters who cannot deal with the present time or reality?

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I'm sorry but Jabar Gaffney is not going to make or break this team. He was there in 2006 when our offense did next to nothing in the 2nd half of the AFCCG while the defense crumbled. He was there in 2007 when the Giants thwarted our unstoppable offense. And to add to this, Wes Welker was here for one of those games too and for the Broncos/Colts/Dolphins games THIS year when we were completely inept in the 2nd half again. The key will be Brady and the OL (and how we gameplan). He still has Moss, Edelman, Watson, Faulk, and hopefully other options stepping up to throw to. You can't tell me the '01,'03, and '04 reciever sets were that much more impressive than the set we have now. The only issue is how fast Brady can adapt and he will have to in a hurry.

As far as Vrabel, he appeared done last season. And that was a year ago.

 

[DaBruinz]

As far as Vrabel, he appeared done last season. And that was a year ago.

Yogi would love you for this one...

 

[Rob0729]

You bet! This team does not have quality depth and letting players like this go is why. Vrabel's toughness and smarts alone would be helping this D and don't even get me started on casting off guys like Gaffney.

First, Vrabel is one of my favorite all time players, but he clearly is a shell of his former self. He wouldn't have been able to beat TBC or Burgess out passing downs where he would have been needed. Belichick most likely would have used him as a run down specialist like he did with Bruschi last year.

Second, Gaffney would have helped, but when Denver aggressively goes after the guy when the Pats had no cap room to play with, there is only so much the Pats could do. Who was to know that the Galloway experiment would have been so bad? No one.

It is easy to play armchair GM after the fact. Even so, I disagree with much of your assessment. I don't think Vrabel would have helped the defense's biggest problem - pressuring the passer - because I don't think he would be on the field on passing downs.

 

[livinginthe past]

I've preached for a long time that a team starts to fall apart

when players that leave a team are replaced by inferior players.

This has happened to the Patriots on defense. If the trend

continues, they will be a run of the mill team next year,

I guess ridiculously facile deduction makes you some sort of footballing savant?

 

[Jimke]

I guess ridiculously facile deduction makes you some sort of footballing savant?

It is simply an observation from watching 50 years of

Patriot's football. All prior teams had their downfall for

the reason I stated.

 

[Rob0729]

I've preached for a long time that a team starts to fall apart

when players that leave a team are replaced by inferior players.

This has happened to the Patriots on defense. If the trend

continues, they will be a run of the mill team next year,

Other than Asante Samuel and Seymour (who I think will have his replacement this offseason which could even be Seymour himself), who falls in this category?

Vrabel? Burgess and/or TBC replaced him and both have more sacks than Vrabel (Burgess 5, TBC 9.5, and Vrabel 2). In fact, both Burgess and TBC have more sacks than Vrabel had on this team last year (4). TBC has more tackles than Vrabel too (54 for TBC and 50 for Vrabel) It seems the Pats upgraded over him.

Ellis Hobbs? I do think that Hobbs gets too much undeserved crap for his play, but Bodden is clearly an upgrade. I thought Hobbs was a good player, but Bodden is better. Springs when healthy is probably too.

Rodney? Rodney was arguably one of the top 5 players of the Super Bowl run, but last year he was slow and a liability. Harrison knew he was done and retired. McGowan was a slight upgrade.

Tedy? Sorry, but Tedy (my favorite player ever) was done before last season. The Pats miss his leadership, but not his production on the field. You can argue that Mayo was his replacement just brought in a year early and he is an upgrade. In fact, so is Guyton.

I guess you can make the argument for the Super Bowl era players (McGinest, Law, etc.), but those were special players who fit into the defense perfectly.

As for the trend continuing, I doubt it. If there is a cap next year, the Pats will be $45-50 million under it. Even with having to resign key players (Wlifork, Mankins, and Gostkowski), they will have plenty of money to pursue LB and DE help.

 

[livinginthe past]

It is simply an observation from watching 50 years of

Patriot's football. All prior teams had their downfall for

the reason I stated.

I bet you also noticed (during your 50 years of watching Patriots football) that teams who scored less than their opponents generally lost more then they won?

 

[harrylime70]

To answer simply:

Gaffney - yes
Vrabel - no

/thread over

Yep agree!!

 

[BritPat]

Yep agree!!

H mate!

You back in Blighty then?

 

[letekro]

I've preached for a long time that a team starts to fall apart

when players that leave a team are replaced by inferior players.

This has happened to the Patriots on defense. If the trend

continues, they will be a run of the mill team next year,

A part of me wants a 6-10 season to weed out the bandwagoners.

 

[harrylime70]

H mate!

You back in Blighty then?

Hello mate..was just back there for 4 weeks on hols but just arrived back in Singapore ready for 2am games again

Back again in June (hopefully for good)

 

[BritPat]

Hello mate..was just back there for 4 weeks on hols but just arrived back in Singapore ready for 2am games again

Back again in June (hopefully for good)

Ah well, needs must eh?

Hope all is well.

 

[Jangles]

A part of me wants a 6-10 season to weed out the bandwagoners.

Don't wish for that

It would be a wasted year for Brady and Moss would be one year closer to retirement

 

[harrylime70]

Ah well, needs must eh?

Hope all is well.

same to you mate

 

[DW Toys]

If Patriot fans want to make themselves sick go back in the last 3 or 4 drafts and see how many quality LBs they've passed on.

I have to agree with you. Case in point this year even though we all agree it was a very good draft class. More later on that. Many smart members on this forum have suggested picks that the Past could have made Draft day for the last few years. Yes in reply to what all you negative cousins are thinking....it is a brash thought! Some of our members could have done just as well as the Pats Draft brain trust. We all know it's a crap shoot anyway. With the internet and massive media publications and available tape on-line, it is not unreasonable to think that some here may have come up with as good of a Draft class as anyone in Foxborough. I say that with all due respect. Those guys are just human and mistakes are made. Problem is they get paid millions to make them.

Here is my example this year. Would we have been better off taking the Ravens pick we dropped down to, then swapped to Green Bay who took Clay Matthews? We would have lost out on Ron Brace(Butler and Brace were #40-#41 so we could have kept Butler). Brace might become o.k. but for now give me Matthews and his ten sacks and we could have solved the OLB issue for years to come. Seems like Prior was a better choice at DT. We did get a bonus out of that in injured pot head WR Brandon Tate. That has worked well!?! If we Draft Matthews, maybe we don't need to waste a 2010 3rd rounder for Burgess as well.

Next we reached big time for Ohrnberger at OG. I doubt he makes the team next year. Talk about mediocre! Many picks after him came Austin Collie who the Colts took. He has 60+ receptions. I hoped that the Pats would Draft that kid. He and Edelman growing up as Pros here this would have been entertaining, thus your 3rd receiver issue would have been solved with Collie.

So:
Brace and Tate=Matthews -OLB solved
Ohrnberger=Austin Collie-3rd WR solved
We probably save that 2010 3rd rounder for the weak Burgess trade.

If we took a survey I would suspect that the majority of this forum would have opted for Matthews and Collie.

Pretty sure being an NFL GM is not rocket science or how many years experience did it take to screw these few player choices up. Yes, I am saying it. Some on this forum could have made the wiser choices.

Butler and Chung have upside. Volmer, Prior and Edelman were finds yes, but it could have been spectacular. It was common sense to take Matthews and Collie.

DW Toys

 

[DaBruinz]

Butler and Chung have upside. Volmer, Prior and Edelman were finds yes, but it could have been spectacular. It was common sense to take Matthews and Collie.

DW Toys

First of all, Matthews most likely wouldn't excel in this defense. He is horrible at setting the edge (worse than Burgess or Woods). He also couldn't cover a RB or TE to save his life.

As for Collie, The Pats drafted Tate in the hopes his knee would be better for this time of year. It wasn't.

Hindsight being 20/20, you look like a genius. Reality says that you have no clue whether or not those players would have done anything in the Pats system.

 

[Kontradiction]

It's almost comedic how much people here overrate Gaffney. He was reliable in this system, but he was not great. Would it be good to have him here now? Sure. But he wouldn't single handedly save the season for us. And if you really ask whether or not Vrabel would have helped, then you haven't watched Vrabel or the Chiefs this season. Vrabel is pretty clearly on his last legs.