Trading picks

[jsull87]

First of all i would just like to put up a scenario. What if we did the same sort of thing this year that we did last year in the draft and worked out so well. Chicago don't have a 1st round pick. How much extra would they have to give up to get our 1st if they gave us their 2011 1st? would it be a 2nd? 3rd?.
i don't know the values but i was just thinking. If we could once again trade down get another 2nd rounder and another 2011 1st in what i will probably be a caped year. Seems a financially sound and good way to keep adding talent to this team for long term (2011) and try hit a sweet spot like last year of salary and talent in that second round.

Thoughts?

 

[mayoclinic]

I think that if BB likes the value where we pick, we'll take it. If he doesn't, he'll trade back. Last year he obviously liked Darius Butler, but he liked him at 41 much more than at 23. I could see the same thing happening.

I have a list of guys who I think are worth a 1st round pick for us. If none of them is available, then I would try to trade back and pile up the red chip prospects.

 

[jsull87]

yeah i was just thinking it is an interesting proposition. Do you have any idea the comparable value for a trade like that? atm chicago is drafting with their 2nd at about 42.

If it went through then we would be picking s it stands now 42 43 46 and anywhere from 56-64. I think a trade like that could represent pretty good value and also let us fill needs if those blue chippers are gone by our pick.

Our 1st would be worth apparently 590-780 points depending on where we finnish. The 2nd rounder is worth 480. So something like that with a late rounder thrown in from us as a bit of a sweetener i like the thought of.

i also think something like this lets you go after some of those riskier olb/de picks as there is less money being given for that player.

 

[mayoclinic]

yeah i was just thinking it is an interesting proposition. Do you have any idea the comparable value for a trade like that? atm chicago is drafting with their 2nd at about 42.

If it went through then we would be picking s it stands now 42 43 46 and anywhere from 56-64. I think a trade like that could represent pretty good value and also let us fill needs if those blue chippers are gone by our pick.

Our 1st would be worth apparently 590-780 points depending on where we finnish. The 2nd rounder is worth 480. So something like that with a late rounder thrown in from us as a bit of a sweetener i like the thought of.

i also think something like this lets you go after some of those riskier olb/de picks as there is less money being given for that player.

Chicago doesn't have a 2nd round pick. They traded it to TB for Gaines Adams.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

The Pats will already have 2 first round picks in 2011, I really doubt that they want to pay 3 first round picks in one year.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

What about moving the other way and maybe trading up to #14. If a guy who slid down from the top 10 was sitting there that we just could not refuse maybe BB might move up and still have two second rounders in his pocket.

SF has two top 15 picks this year and I think our first and our 2nd, second round pick would add up to an even trade I believe.

 

[carolinatony]

I think that if BB likes the value where we pick, we'll take it. If he doesn't, he'll trade back


Whie this is a great idea, it doesn't help Brady and Co. win another SB now. We did not address pass rush this past draft and it has hurt us.
Grab a few pass rushers this draft BB!

 

[mayoclinic]

What about moving the other way and maybe trading up to #14. If a guy who slid down from the top 10 was sitting there that we just could not refuse maybe BB might move up and still have two second rounders in his pocket.

SF has two top 15 picks this year and I think our first and our 2nd, second round pick would add up to an even trade I believe.

I personally like that direction. The guy I would trade up for would be Rolando McClain, if he were still available.

I could see SF being willing to do that trade for several reasons:

1. They will probably have 2 picks around 14-15. They may want to trade back and save some $$ on one.
2. They can probably trade back to the early 20's and still get an OT that they would like. RT is one of their biggest needs.
3. Their is a rumor that they may shift to a 4-3, in which case McClain wouldn't be their biggest need. Even if they do stay in a 3-4, they have Ahmad Brooks who could play next to Willis.

I could see CB Joe Haden or DE Cameron Heyward also possibly being worth trading up for.

 

[BelizePats]

We currently have 4 picks in the first 2 rounds in 2010 and 3 in 2011, one of which will likely be a top 10. And we just drafted at least 10 players in '09 that are still with the team. Done properly, this 3 year stretch of the draft should lay the foundation for a highly competitive team through 2017. While there are no guarantees, this is about double the number of picks in the first 2 rounds that most other teams in the league will have the benefit of.
I am a big proponent of a little less trading down (quantity) and a little more trading up (quality) Many of the teams who will be drafting top 10 this year are in terrible shape and have big holes to fill throughout their lineups. There will be teams at the top of the draft who need to trade down to better fill their numerous roster weaknesses.
I don't know what it would cost but I would like to see the Pats move way up and draft McClain out of 'Bama. Our first, one of our seconds this year and maybe even a second or 3rd in 2011 would not be to high a price for this kid. Yes, its a steep but its one that I'd feel awfully good paying. This kid is a fantastic leader and a great player. This is the kind of kid you build your defense around for the next 10 years.
And we can still get a Guard and OLB help in 2010 if we do this.
Trade up, not down!

 

[Ochmed Jones]

What about moving the other way and maybe trading up to #14. If a guy who slid down from the top 10 was sitting there that we just could not refuse maybe BB might move up and still have two second rounders in his pocket.

SF has two top 15 picks this year and I think our first and our 2nd, second round pick would add up to an even trade I believe.

San Fran would be an excellent trading partner if things with Wilfork and the franchise tagging go bad.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

San Fran would be an excellent trading partner if things with Wilfork and the franchise tagging go bad.

Have you proposed to Mt. Cody yet?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Have you proposed to Mt. Cody yet?

Not yet, the farthest I got was saying "good game" to him on the field after a couple of wins this season.

 

[jsull87]

I understand the want for that top 15 guy. And would love to get the sure thing. My only point was as far as risk reward goes and for the call for pass rushers. You can take those risks A.) 2010 in the 2nd round where contracts are less and you have more picks after trading down. or B.) 2011 where it is capped and you can get those 1st rounders at a much lower cost than this year. I also see the point of we have TB lets win now. But remember it has always been BB's mo to look after the long term interests of the team.

I could be wrong but i don't know if he would thing trading out 2010 1st and 2nd and a 2011 2nd for a top 15 is looking after our future... unless it is another DROY suh sure thing type guy. Which hopefully we can get in 2011 with oaklands pick

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

I understand the want for that top 15 guy. And would love to get the sure thing. My only point was as far as risk reward goes and for the call for pass rushers. You can take those risks A.) 2010 in the 2nd round where contracts are less and you have more picks after trading down. or B.) 2011 where it is capped and you can get those 1st rounders at a much lower cost than this year. I also see the point of we have TB lets win now. But remember it has always been BB's mo to look after the long term interests of the team.

I could be wrong but i don't know if he would thing trading out 2010 1st and 2nd and a 2011 2nd for a top 15 is looking after our future... unless it is another DROY suh sure thing type guy. Which hopefully we can get in 2011 with oaklands pick

No, we would only be swaping 1st round picksin 2010 and given up our second, second round pick this year to move up. That would leave us with a top 15 pick and two second rounders this year which would still be good quality IMO. Mayo named some of the players that could slide and make a impact for us right away.

 

[jsull87]

No, we would only be swaping 1st round picksin 2010 and given up our second, second round pick this year to move up. That would leave us with a top 15 pick and two second rounders this year which would still be good quality IMO. Mayo named some of the players that could slide and make a impact for us right away.

i'm not at all against this if "that guy" with a mayo type impact is there. But if not i am still partial to dropping down n accumulating low cost high reward picks

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

I can't see us trading up this year. It's been documented that BB doesn't like having high first round guys tie up the salary cap with ridiculous salaries that they don't deserve.

Plus, if he wanted a top 15 pick this year, why wouldn't he have just asked for the Raiders 2010 first rounder for Seymour?

I wouldn't mind seeing us trade up at all, I just think it's unlikely with the way BB likes to operate.

 

[mayoclinic]

I can't see us trading up this year. It's been documented that BB doesn't like having high first round guys tie up the salary cap with ridiculous salaries that they don't deserve.

Plus, if he wanted a top 15 pick this year, why wouldn't he have just asked for the Raiders 2010 first rounder for Seymour?

I wouldn't mind seeing us trade up at all, I just think it's unlikely with the way BB likes to operate.

1. 2010 will probably be uncapped.
2. The cap hit of a 10-15 pick is reasonable. In fact, the sweet spot of the draft in terms of contract price vs. impact value of the player is probably about #11-12. Mayo's contract was very reasonable. It's the top 7 or so which are prohibitively expensive.
3. The Raiders never offered a 2010 1st for Seymour. They were willing to give up a 2010 2nd or a 2011 1st. No brainer there.

You may be right, but I wouldn't draw any conclusions based on your reasoning.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

1. 2010 will probably be uncapped.
2. The cap hit of a 10-15 pick is reasonable. In fact, the sweet spot of the draft in terms of contract price vs. impact value of the player is probably about #11-12. Mayo's contract was very reasonable. It's the top 7 or so which are prohibitively expensive.
3. The Raiders never offered a 2010 1st for Seymour. They were willing to give up a 2010 2nd or a 2011 1st. No brainer there.

You may be right, but I wouldn't draw any conclusions based on your reasoning.

I did not know of point #3. THen you make some very valid points. Definitely some talent worth trading up for.

 

[jsull87]

i thought i read an article on the "sweet spot" being early to mid 2nd round. i can't exactly remember which. It was talking into account cost, % making the team, % starting, %pro bowl. something like that. Personally if there is the merriman/seymour defensive game changer at that 13/14/15 then i would love us to trade our 1st n 2nd to get there. But i can also see the long term merit and fiscal responsability salary cap/talent wise of trading down accumulating 2nd round talent and getting those high end picks in a rookie pay scale year.

 

[mgteich]

You all are so very generous to want to give our first and an early second if you cna be assured a player who will turn out as good as Seymour, Merriman or Mayo.

First, there are no guarantees. Second, a player with such PROJECTIONS would be a top 10 pick, at least, in which case it would take a lot more to move up.

The quesion will indeed be whether a blue chipper is available for the two picks. My guess is that the answer will be "No". Last year, when the same type of trade was speculated for the patriots, over and over anover again, Belichick fiinally gave his answer the week before the draft. He said that there was 0% of our moving up. The situation may change by this draft, but I can't see belichick trading to the top 10, or even top 15, for a linebacker. Now, if we discussing a nose tackle