So what is the WR depth chart now?

[furley]

You would think that Watson would be more assertive or outspoken about being more involved in the offense. I mean seeing as he's supposed to be playing for a new contract. Look at Banta-Cain... He's in a contract year too.


Ideally...

Moss
Watson
Edelman
Faulk
Baker
Aiken

Reality...

Moss
Edelman
Faulk
The sound of crickets chirping...

 

[Delicate Genius]

Bring back J. J. Stokes!!

 

[DaedalusX]

Temporary WR solution

Our WR situations now sucks. What I would like to see tried out as a patchwork solution, just to see if it works in the slightest (maybe just in practice) and possibly better than currently:

1: Moss
2: Edelman
3: Maroney (Like a Hines Ward / Stallworth hybrid)
4: Aiken/Bodden/Butler (Bodden/Butler alternating in depending on time of possession)
5: Stanback/Slater/Bodden/Butler (Bodden/Butler alternating in depending on time of possession)

Maroney is an open field threat and would be the easiest transition, plus we have Morris, Taylor and Faulk to fill his role.

Aiken and Stanback aren't dependable, but both Bodden and Butler have good hands and are fast. I think if used sparingly, this could make up an interesting temporary cast for a 5 wide spread offense.

The real point is, I have no confidence in our WR corps and hope Belichick is thinking creatively because a college team could shutdown the Pats O if Moss/Edelman are the only legit targets and we operate out of a 3, 4 or 5 wide set.

TE usage is... well, I want to believe in Watson and Baker, but with the way our O-line plays and with the drops Watson has, it's hard to see a 2 WR 2 TE set really being what's needed to keep us through the playoffs.

Anyway, it's late and I thought I'd throw this crazy idea out there.

 

[weswelker#83]

Re: Temporary WR Solution

3: Maroney (Like a Hines Ward / Stallworth hybrid)

Maroney doesn't catch the ball like Ward , he can run ,yes .

 

[jmt57]

Re: Temporary WR Solution

How about Edelman simply replaces Welker, along with a slightly higher reliance on Faulk, other RB's, and the TE's.


No need for Bodden or Butler to enter the equation.

 

[DaedalusX]

Re: Temporary WR Solution

Maroney doesn't catch the ball like Ward , he can run ,yes .

I'm not sure he's ever been asked to try. I'd like to know if he can.

 

[weswelker#83]

Re: Temporary WR Solution

I'm not sure he's ever been asked to try. I'd like to know if he can.

Many dropped ball in the past (screen passes), doesn't have great hands for that.

 

[DaedalusX]

Re: Temporary WR Solution

How about Edelman simply replaces Welker, along with a slightly higher reliance on Faulk, other RB's, and the TE's.


No need for Bodden or Butler to enter the equation.

If this team wants to run a spread offense, ever, this post season, Aiken, Stanback and Slater are not the 3, 4 and 5 that are going to get it done.

I'd like to see guys with better hands and adaptability try it out.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Re: Temporary WR Solution

How about Kevin Faulk? He's got great hands and always finds a way to get it done. Whether we line him up out wide or in the backfield, I can see him re-emerging as a big time chain mover with Welker down.

If we need to convert on a big 3rd or 4th down, there's no one I trust more than Kevin Faulk.

Maybe we split Watson out wide considering the speed he has. Could be a matchup nightmare if used more often.

I really wish we had Tate, I had high hopes for him and expected him to be making an impact by the time playoffs rolled around. Aiken's not too shabby of a WR either, but he ain't anything great.

 

[DaedalusX]

Re: Temporary WR Solution

Many dropped ball in the past (screen passes), doesn't have great hands for that.

You could be right, but I've never seen/heard that as fact.

 

[weswelker#83]

Re: Temporary WR Solution

You could be right, but I've never seen/heard that as fact.

It is what it is ,i got this from watching many Pats games , do your own search , you will get your answer.

 

[jmt57]

Re: Temporary WR Solution

If this team wants to run a spread offense, ever, this post season, Aiken, Stanback and Slater are not the 3, 4 and 5 that are going to get it done.

I'd like to see guys with better hands and adaptability try it out.

Why would you put guys in a position they haven't played since high school (and also take away from what they're counted on doing) when you already have somebody else (Edelman) ready to take the place of an injured player (Welker)?

Why would you assume that Butler and Bodden would be better receivers than Aiken, Stanback and Slater? Why assume they have better hands? They're going to get the WR routes and timing down better in five days than those other have been able to do in five months? And what does putting them in at receiver do to the defensive secondary?

 

[DaedalusX]

Re: Temporary WR Solution

If we need to convert on a big 3rd or 4th down, there's no one I trust more than Kevin Faulk.

Fair point, but he's a limited use option. We need another fast, deep threat.

Maybe we split Watson out wide considering the speed he has. Could be a matchup nightmare if used more often.

He's fast, but his drops worry me.

I really wish we had Tate, I had high hopes for him and expected him to be making an impact by the time playoffs rolled around.

Same here.

Aiken's not too shabby of a WR either, but he ain't anything great.

He's a #4 or #5 option being asked to be a #3, and that's the problem, because the Pats need at least a solid #3 for the way the O is built, and legitimate 4/5 to at least keep the D honest.

Bodden and Butler might not be any good at WR, but at least it would be an unpredictable move.

I mean, heh, we have a 7th round QB as our #2 WR right now, there's very little that can happen now that would shock me as far as personnel moves go.

 

[DaedalusX]

Re: Temporary WR Solution

Why would you put guys in a position they haven't played since high school (and also take away from what they're counted on doing) when you already have somebody else (Edelman) ready to take the place of an injured player (Welker)?

Because Edelman was already needed as a very raw #3 option, and he's not a deep threat. We don't have a second deep or mid threat WR currently. Aiken is just not it.

Why would you assume that Butler and Bodden would be better receivers than Aiken, Stanback and Slater?

I've seen Bodden/Butler intercept passes not even meant for them. I haven't seen Aiken reliably catch anything. But mostly, I just want to see.

Why assume they have better hands?

See above.

They're going to get the WR routes and timing down better in five days than those other have been able to do in five months?

That's sort of misleading since the #3/#4/#5 situation already hasn't worked at all in the past 5 months, and yet it is theoretically what this offense is built on.

And what does putting them in at receiver do to the defensive secondary?

Ideally players would be rotated intelligently.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Re: Temporary WR Solution

Fair point, but he's a limited use option. We need another fast, deep threat.


He's fast, but his drops worry me.


Same here.


He's a #4 or #5 option being asked to be a #3, and that's the problem, because the Pats need at least a solid #3 for the way the O is built, and legitimate 4/5 to at least keep the D honest.

Bodden and Butler might not be any good at WR, but at least it would be an unpredictable move.

I mean, heh, we have a 7th round QB as our #2 WR right now, there's very little that can happen now that would shock me as far as personnel moves go.

I don't get how Bodden or Butler would be better than Slater, Stanback or Aiken at WR. The problem at WR stems from Galloway flopping and Tate being re-injured. If Galloway/Tate had worked out and Welker went down like this, you slide in Edelman and you still have a pretty solid top 3 with 2 deep threats and a dangerous slot guy.

The problem we have, as you said, is having someone that is able to line up opposite Moss. We had that problem with Welker, so it's nothing new. Welker is best when operating in the slot and so is Edelman. Galloway was expected to be that other wide out who could stretch the field and make plays, but it didn't work out.

I expect Aiken gets the call as the other wide out and Edelman takes over slot duties.

 

[sld12]

Re: Temporary WR Solution

You could be right, but I've never seen/heard that as fact.

As far as getting open and catching the ball from what I've seen, Maroney has had trouble with screen plays, but he's done pretty good when he has an up the middle and stop route. I think he's also been an average receiver when he's coming out of the back field, but he needs to improve that.

He's definitely money when he does catch the ball though

 

[DaedalusX]

Re: Temporary WR Solution

I expect Aiken gets the call as the other wide out and Edelman takes over slot duties.

Yes, but my point is that this is what has been happening and it doesn't work. Edelman has been out for a good bit of the season, so we've had a chance to see what Moss, Welker/WelkerLite, Aiken can do as a 3 WR set. It's mediocre, at least in the second half. The only time this offense clicked was when Moss, Welker and Edelman were all on the field and Brady was getting protection. Aiken has been involved in all of this for weeks and not done anything impressive.

I'm not interested in what could or should have been, I'm interested in, right now post Welker injury, we can try to make this work.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Re: Temporary WR Solution

Yes, but my point is that this is what has been happening and it doesn't work. Edelman has been out for a good bit of the season, so we've had a chance to see what Moss, Welker/WelkerLite, Aiken can do as a 3 WR set. It's mediocre, at least in the second half. The only time this offense clicked was when Moss, Welker and Edelman were all on the field and Brady was getting protection. Aiken has been involved in all of this for weeks and not done anything impressive.

I'm not interested in what could or should have been, I'm interested in, right now post Welker injury, we can try to make this work.

I understand what you are saying. I am saying even with Welker our offense was ineffective at times and this problem existed before Welker went down. All year long we have not had "the guy" you are talking about, so why are you trying to look for a solution in Bodden/Butler now? If Welker hadn't gone down we wouldn't be having this discussion, but the problem you are talking about would still be there.

It would almost be better to bring a a FA off the street who is an actual WR than to use Bodden or Butler at WR. Those guys haven't played WR extensively and don't know how to run routes or the playbook.

 

[jmt57]

Re: Temporary WR Solution

Because Edelman was already needed as a very raw #3 option, and he's not a deep threat. We don't have a second deep or mid threat WR currently. Aiken is just not it.

Do you really think Bodden or Butler would be more of a deep threat than Aiken?

I've seen Bodden/Butler intercept passes not even meant for them. I haven't seen Aiken reliably catch anything. But mostly, I just want to see.

Intercepting a pass knowing you have help over the top is completely different than running a route, making the same read as your QB, and then making the catch. If you just want to see what happens, that's what minicamp and preseason are for - not the playoffs.

See above.

See above.

That's sort of misleading since the #3/#4/#5 situation already hasn't worked at all in the past 5 months, and yet it is theoretically what this offense is built on.

Assuming that is true, why not go to the various Plan B's on offense (i.e., more of Faulk, Taylor, Morris, Maroney, Watson, Baker, etc.) instead of Plan Z (i.e., two guys that not only have zero experience at that position, but zero experience on offense.)

Ideally players would be rotated intelligently.

In other words what: more Wilhite? More Wheatley? Springs and three safetys?


The #3 WR debate is really no different than it was 24 hours ago. That receiver on the opposite side of Moss is still Aiken or whomever, and it doesn't change whether the slot receiver is Welker or Edelman. The slot receiver being injured is not a good reason to go into a playoff game and panic by disrupting the entire defenseive secondary as well as the #2 WR position. Better off making only one change than three.

 

[DaedalusX]

Re: Temporary WR Solution

I understand what you are saying. I am saying even with Welker our offense was ineffective at times and this problem existed before Welker went down. All year long we have not had "the guy" you are talking about, so why are you trying to look for a solution in Bodden/Butler now?

Well, let's ignore them for a minute and start with Maroney.

I want to see him get a shot and I think he could be lethal if used properly. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe he sucks at receiving, but he's done alright a few times with it. He just hasn't really been asked to do it.

Bodden/Butler I'm looking to because they're athletic, can catch and know how to read Tom Brady's mannerisms. That's already way more than you'll get off the street.

If Welker hadn't gone down we wouldn't be having this discussion, but the problem you are talking about would still be there.

Well, I think we would, just not with the same sense of urgency. Before today is was an next season problem. Now it's a next week problem.

It would almost be better to bring a a FA off the street who is an actual WR than to use Bodden or Butler at WR. Those guys haven't played WR extensively and don't know how to run routes or the playbook.

Not necessarily true. They have to defend it, they know Brady's tendencies, which is already better than a FA off the street. If you know how to defend it, you know at least a little of how to use it.

And when you say FA I'm assuming you're not talking about Brandon Marshall or Ocho Cinco level candidates, but other Aikens.

Really, the real goal is to be less predictable and give the D more to think about.