Chung Brace and Vollmer

[mgteich]

After almost a season, I think that we overpaid for Chung and Brace, received reasonable value in Butler, and got a huge value in Vollmer. Even though we overpaid, I still think that Chung and Brace are solid prospects and part of a great 2009 draft.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

I didn't like the Brace pick at the time and I still don't. All we heard about was how great Raji was for BC, and I hadn't even heard of Ron Brace as a legitimate prospect to be honest.

I really liked the Chung pick b/c I felt he was the perfect guy to take over for Rodney. Great tackler, good on special teams, great attitude and work ethic, good blitzer, very durable, plays with a chip on his shoulder, decent ball skills, leader on his college defense. That's everything you look for in a safety. You have to remember in the draft, we hadn't singed McGowan yet so we needed a safety to replace the retiring Rodney. We probably did take Chung a little early but I think we might have panicked a little when we saw Delmas taken with the first pick in the 2nd round, so we wanted to make sure we got a good prospect at safety.

Butler was great value IMO, he was a projected first round pick by many. I had Vontae Davis, Sean Smith, and Darius Butler as my top 3 corners in the draft so I was glad we came away with one of them.

Vollmer's play speaks for itself. Tremendous value, tremendous find by BB and the scouting department. Had never even heard of him before the draft.

I think Tate, if he comes back healthy, will prove to be tremendous value for us as a 3rd round pick. I expect him to take over as the 3rd WR option next year. The guy was lightning in a bottle in college before he tore his ACL. Great kick returner and a budding star at WR. Probably would have been a 1st round pick in he didn't blow out his knee. I thought he was a better pro prospect than his teammate Hakeen Nicks, and was comparable to Percy Harvin. BB snatching him in the 3rd round made me feel like we were definitely interested in Percy Harvin and wanted to get a comparable weapon to Harvin to help replace the losses of Gaffney and Stallworth at WR over the past two seasons.

I had high hopes for McKenzie; it's a shame he tore his ACL. Hopefully he can recover and come back an make an impact.

 

[mgteich]

If Tate comes back healthy and at 100%, he is worth a first round pick. The question was, is, and shall be his health.

QUOTE=BillBelichickFan79;1666651]I didn't like the Brace pick at the time and I still don't. All we heard about was how great Raji was for BC, and I hadn't even heard of Ron Brace as a legitimate prospect to be honest.

I really liked the Chung pick b/c I felt he was the perfect guy to take over for Rodney. Great tackler, good on special teams, great attitude and work ethic, good blitzer, very durable, plays with a chip on his shoulder, decent ball skills, leader on his college defense. That's everything you look for in a safety. You have to remember in the draft, we hadn't singed McGowan yet so we needed a safety to replace the retiring Rodney. We probably did take Chung a little early but I think we might have panicked a little when we saw Delmas taken with the first pick in the 2nd round, so we wanted to make sure we got a good prospect at safety.

Butler was great value IMO, he was a projected first round pick by many. I had Vontae Davis, Sean Smith, and Darius Butler as my top 3 corners in the draft so I was glad we came away with one of them.

Vollmer's play speaks for itself. Tremendous value, tremendous find by BB and the scouting department. Had never even heard of him before the draft.

I think Tate, if he comes back healthy, will prove to be tremendous value for us as a 3rd round pick. I expect him to take over as the 3rd WR option next year. The guy was lightning in a bottle in college before he tore his ACL. Great kick returner and a budding star at WR. Probably would have been a 1st round pick in he didn't blow out his knee. I thought he was a better pro prospect than his teammate Hakeen Nicks, and was comparable to Percy Harvin. BB snatching him in the 3rd round made me feel like we were definitely interested in Percy Harvin and wanted to get a comparable weapon to Harvin to help replace the losses of Gaffney and Stallworth at WR over the past two seasons.

I had high hopes for McKenzie; it's a shame he tore his ACL. Hopefully he can recover and come back an make an impact.[/QUOTE]

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

We probably did take Chung a little early but I think we might have panicked a little when we saw Delmas taken with the first pick in the 2nd round, so we wanted to make sure we got a good prospect at safety.

This was my initial reaction to the Chung pick as well. I liked Chung, but he was clearly taken way too early. Think about, this is what we got out of trading Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel. Not too impressive if you ask me.

I've said it before and I will say it again and again until they prove me wrong, this was a terrible draft. The Pats needed impact players on defense this season if they wanted any chance of winning a super bowl in 2009. They currently have zero out of the 2009 draft. If the Pats do lose in the post season, it will be because of this reason. There were a ton of difference makers on defense that they could've had but passed up on them because they're so hung up on their "system".

However, it's funny how their biggest reach of the draft (Vollmer) will probably turn out to be their best pick.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

If Tate comes back healthy and at 100%, he is worth a first round pick. The question was, is, and shall be his health.

Correct. It's a shame the kid has suffered back to back knee injuries. He had such a promising future. Coming back from this 2nd injury would show a true test of character and resiliency. Hopefully the injury isn't that severe and the rehab goes well.

I was high on Maualuga going into the draft and wanted to take him with that Chung pick. I felt we could've waited another 6 to 8 picks to grab Chung. Ideally, I would've gone Maualuga at 34, Chung at 40, Butler at 41. Hopefully Ron Brace proves me wrong, but I didn't like the pick then and still don't like it now. I thought Maualuga would be a great fit inside with Mayo. That would relegate Guyton to a rotational LB which I think he is more fit to be at this point.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

If Tate comes back healthy and at 100%, he is worth a first round pick. The question was, is, and shall be his health.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I wouldn't be surprised if this guy's career is done. You shred both knees in the last two years? This guy has his work cut out for him. I don't expect him to do anything for the Pats.

 

[mgteich]

No bursted bubble here

I was responding to a post that thought that he will be worth his draft pick if he gets healthy. He was a great risk that likely will not pay off.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I wouldn't be surprised if this guy's career is done. You shred both knees in the last two years? This guy has his work cut out for him. I don't expect him to do anything for the Pats.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

However, it's funny how their biggest reach of the draft (Vollmer) will probably turn out to be their best pick.

I still can't get over how great of a pick that was. When they drafted him I was like who the hell is that? Great find by BB and the scouting department.

And I agree, losing Cassel and Vrabel for Chung isn't the type of trade off you hope for. I think Chung will definitely be an impact player for us, but Cassel had a lot of value after last year and Vrabel was a leader of our defense even though he was old and on the decline.

 

[mgteich]

I have rarely disagreed more strongly with a post than I do with yours.

You measure this draft on whether we secured defensive players that had significant impacts in their rookie year. I believe that drafts are for the future and that any rookie impact with a player picked after pick 15 is a bonus.

I hope for some rookie contributions and I think that we have had that from Butler, Chung, Edelman, Ingam, and Pryor.

This was my initial reaction to the Chung pick as well. I liked Chung, but he was clearly taken way too early. Think about, this is what we got out of trading Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel. Not too impressive if you ask me.

I've said it before and I will say it again and again until they prove me wrong, this was a terrible draft. The Pats needed impact players on defense this season if they wanted any chance of winning a super bowl in 2009. They currently have zero out of the 2009 draft. If the Pats do lose in the post season, it will be because of this reason. There were a ton of difference makers on defense that they could've had but passed up on them because they're so hung up on their "system".

However, it's funny how their biggest reach of the draft (Vollmer) will probably turn out to be their best pick.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I was high on Maualuga going into the draft and wanted to take him with that Chung pick.

I was screaming Maualuga when the Pats had their first pick in the 2nd round. I watched him play every game at USC and thought he would've been the perfect complement to Mayo and Guyton. Maualuga was a great hard hitting- run stuffing ILB for the Trojans.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I have rarely disagreed more strongly with a post than I do with yours.

You measure this draft on whether we secured defensive players that had significant impacts in their rookie year. I believe that drafts are for the future and that any rookie impact with a player picked after pick 15 is a bonus.

I hope for some rookie contributions and I think that we have had that from Butler, Chung, Edelman, Ingam, and Pryor.

Listen, I'm speaking as though I assume everybody here wants the Pats to win a super bowl with Tom Brady, Moss and others. If you want to see them win a super bowl "now", they don't have time to draft these raw "developmental" players. They just don't have time to play these games. That is why I'm so critical with these drafts. If the Pats didn't have a future Hall of Fame QB and WR, I wouldn't be so critical because my expectations wouldn't be so high.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

I was screaming Maualuga when the Pats had their first pick in the 2nd round. I watched him play every game at USC and thought he would've been the perfect complement to Mayo and Guyton. Maualuga was a great hard hitting- run stuffing ILB for the Trojans.

Couldn't agree with you more. I was shocked that he fell to the 2nd round, I thought he would definitely go in the 1st. Hopefully this year we add some LB's early and often.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Listen, I'm speaking as though I assume everybody here wants the Pats to win a super bowl with Tom Brady, Moss and others. If you want to see them win a super bowl "now", they don't have time to draft these raw "developmental" players. They just don't have time to play these games. That is why I'm so critical with these drafts. If the Pats didn't have a future Hall of Fame QB and WR, I wouldn't be so critical because my expectations wouldn't be so high.

Well, for better or for worse, the Patriots' mission statement is to "consistently compete for championships." As much as you might like to maximize the chances of winning "now," and let the future be damned, the Patriots don't see it that way.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I still can't get over how great of a pick that was. When they drafted him I was like who the hell is that? Great find by BB and the scouting department.

And I agree, losing Cassel and Vrabel for Chung isn't the type of trade off you hope for. I think Chung will definitely be an impact player for us, but Cassel had a lot of value after last year and Vrabel was a leader of our defense even though he was old and on the decline.

Cassel could have had more value, but the tradeoff that Belichick made was to free up salary cap room in exchange for lower draft picks.

Is it possible that the Patriots could have gotten a first for Cassel? Maybe, but it would certainly have taken longer. And it would have meant that the Pats would have to carry Cassel's $14.6M cap hit until they did.

[And you could make the argument that the Patriots could have extended Cassel before the 2008 season. But would Cassel really have been willing to stick around as Brady's back-up as Jim Sorgi did with Peyton Manning? I have my doubts.]

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Well, for better or for worse, the Patriots' mission statement is to "consistently compete for championships." As much as you might like to maximize the chances of winning "now," and let the future be damned, the Patriots don't see it that way.

I'm not saying throw all your eggs in one basket, I'm just saying to draft better. There were a ton of impact players on defense that the Pats didn't have to trade up for or could've got the player they wanted for very little.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Cassel could have had more value, but the tradeoff that Belichick made was to free up salary cap room in exchange for lower draft picks.

Is it possible that the Patriots could have gotten a first for Cassel? Sure. But is the difference between what the Pats got and what the Pats could have had more than what they would have lost from not signing Bodden, Taylor, etc.?

You're right we had to free up salary cap, but I would have preferred the first round pick for Cassel. I was never a big fan of Bodden and still don't think very highly of him. He's been better than Hobbs and O'Neal, but that's not saying much. If we had that other 1st round pick, we could've picked up more of an impact player or traded back for even more picks. Maybe we end up with Butler and Sean Smith at CB if we trade picks. I would have preferred Smith and Butler to Bodden and Butler.

 

[BritPat]

This was my initial reaction to the Chung pick as well. I liked Chung, but he was clearly taken way too early. Think about, this is what we got out of trading Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel. Not too impressive if you ask me.

Forget the value, there was little else they could have offered us. BB was happy with the pick because that's where he felt the best value was. And Chung wasn't taken way too early, he was a borderline first round pick, and he was taken in the spot most Draftniks had him pinned to go.

I've said it before and I will say it again and again until they prove me wrong, this was a terrible draft. The Pats needed impact players on defense this season if they wanted any chance of winning a super bowl in 2009. They currently have zero out of the 2009 draft. If the Pats do lose in the post season, it will be because of this reason. There were a ton of difference makers on defense that they could've had but passed up on them because they're so hung up on their "system".

Erm, this system has landed three Lombardi's.....

You can stamp your feet and chuck your toys out of your pram all you like, but the draft was a great one and might well have set us up for the next 5-10 years at CB, S, and OT, at the very least. Then you have Pryor and Edelman performing above and beyond the expectations for 7th rounders.

I don't think BB cares whether some random no-name on an internet forum thinks it was a terrible Draft, fact is, most of those players drafted have played a part on a team that's the fourth ranked scoring defense in the league. That's all he cares about.

However, it's funny how their biggest reach of the draft (Vollmer) will probably turn out to be their best pick.

Funny that, as apparently the Giants and at least one other Franchise were ready to grab him had the Patriots not.

Maybe they know a teensy bit more than you do?

 

[BritPat]

I'm not saying throw all your eggs in one basket, I'm just saying to draft better. There were a ton of impact players on defense that the Pats didn't have to trade up for or could've got the player they wanted for very little.

Draft better?

Erm, every single draftee bar Richard made the roster. As did two UDFA's. And we're currently 10-5, have the fourth ranked scoring D, looking eagerly towards the Playoffs.

You should stop playing Madden so much.

 

[carolinatony]

The Pats needed impact players on defense this season if they wanted any chance of winning a super bowl in 2009. They currently have zero out of the 2009 draft. If the Pats do lose in the post season, it will be because of this reason. There were a ton of difference makers on defense that they could've had but passed up on them because they're so hung up on their "system".

However, it's funny how their biggest reach of the draft (Vollmer) will probably turn out to be their best pick.
__________________

I agree with you on this all the way.
There were a bunch of players out there we all hoped we would have taken at LB last year that would have made a difference. Everyone had there favorite picks and BB passed on them all.

We can't do that this year on defense again.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

I have rarely disagreed more strongly with a post than I do with yours.

You measure this draft on whether we secured defensive players that had significant impacts in their rookie year. I believe that drafts are for the future and that any rookie impact with a player picked after pick 15 is a bonus.

I hope for some rookie contributions and I think that we have had that from Butler, Chung, Edelman, Ingam, and Pryor.

Amen and you need only look to
troy polamalu to see someone who was ripped as a bust after his rookie season. I'm not saying anyone of these guys will be as good but let them get the year one to year 2 progression before you judge....