Hoge: Moss 'played his tail off'

[klinefan]

I wouldn't bet Moss will finish his career here. If guys like McGinest and Vrabel didn't finish their careers here, I wouldn't bet on Moss either. No one is guaranteed to spend their end of their career with the Pats.

He's the type of guy who is rich enough that he isn't going to work somewhere he doesn't want to, just won't. Will demand an outright cut or will just retire or threaten to.

This story parallels many myths in that a demi-god comes to earth, is persecuted unfairly and finally killed by the angry mob of idiots, only to rise up again and be worshipped as the true god he is.

*not saying that people dogging moss wanted to kill him or were idiots, just that the parallel is there.

 

[Rob0729]

He's the type of guy who is rich enough that he isn't going to work somewhere he doesn't want to, just won't. Will demand an outright cut or will just retire or threaten to.

This story parallels many myths in that a demi-god comes to earth, is persecuted unfairly and finally killed by the angry mob of idiots, only to rise up again and be worshipped as the true god he is.

*not saying that people dogging moss wanted to kill him or were idiots, just that the parallel is there.

I don't know. I think both McGinest and Vrabel would have taken less to stay here. Sometimes it isn't money. Belichick at a certain point in most player's careers just decides to move on no matter the cost. Moss may be willing to play here for free and Belichick could still say no and it may have nothing to do with how he feels about him personally or whether he felt he gave an effort every game or not.

 

[patriots pam]

Hoge has now defended 4th & 2, Late-Gate and the Moss performance.

He's cool in my book from now on.

Man, he'll say anything to distract from the Steelers downward spiral this year, huh?

I still think he's a homerific dink, but it is refreshing to see that he's not jumping on the anti-Pats team/coach/player dog-faker-pile on these issues, when it would be all too easy right now.

2009. The season I had to thank Merrill friggin Hoge for speaking out in defense of the Pats. :stars2:

 

[emoney_33]

I wouldn't bet Moss will finish his career here. If guys like McGinest and Vrabel didn't finish their careers here, I wouldn't bet on Moss either. No one is guaranteed to spend their end of their career with the Pats.

We'll have to wait and see, but I think it's fairly obvious he'll be retiring here.

 

[Zeus]

Bill Belichick replaced Bernie Kosar in Cleveland, Drew Bledsoe in New England, suspended Terry Glenn during the 2001 season, cut Lawyer Milloy, traded Richard Seymour ...

So why would he tolerate an unacceptable level of effort from Randy Moss?

There's only one opinion that matters - not Felger, not Peter King, not any of the Sporting Press or Talking Heads.

BB's opinion is the one that counts. Period. His track record is that he operates on facts, not emotions. The game film does not lie.

The logical conclusion is that Belichick is comfortable with Moss; we know this because Moss continues to play, snap after snap after snap. No other explanation makes sense.

 

[emoney_33]

I don't know. I think both McGinest and Vrabel would have taken less to stay here. Sometimes it isn't money. Belichick at a certain point in most player's careers just decides to move on no matter the cost. Moss may be willing to play here for free and Belichick could still say no and it may have nothing to do with how he feels about him personally or whether he felt he gave an effort every game or not.

I do not see Moss trying to play if he deteriorates to the point where he cannot produce and does not command double teams. As long as he commands double teams, he will have a lot of value as a player. Leaving the possibility that BB would cut/trade him because he felt he didn't give an effort every game means you have not been paying attention.

 

[Rob0729]

We'll have to wait and see, but I think it's fairly obvious he'll be retiring here.

I don't think it is fairly obvious anyone is going to retire here outside of Brady and maybe Faulk. Only two players have thus far been given the ability to retire with the Pats under any circumstance thus far have been Bruschi and Brown. I don't think Moss is close to Belichick's heart as either of those guys. Both had histories with Belichick back to 1996.

If you think it is obvious that Moss will retire here unless he plays to retire in the next year or two, you haven't been following this team. Virtually everyone is cutable or tradeable under the right circumstances.

 

[Rob0729]

I do not see Moss trying to play if he deteriorates to the point where he cannot produce and does not command double teams. As long as he commands double teams, he will have a lot of value as a player. Leaving the possibility that BB would cut/trade him because he felt he didn't give an effort every game means you have not been paying attention.

But you don't know when Moss will retire (or if he won't be one of those players who decides to stay at the dance for a year or two too long than they should have) or if he will take less to stay here when his contract is up in a year or if Belichick decides to move on. Sorry, you don't know any of the potential situations that might occure over the next few years that could cause the Pats and Moss to part ways.

Who said I said he would cut or trade him because he didn't give an effort. Belichick could think he plays his heart out and there is no guarantee that Belichick will resign him when his contract is up. There is no guarantee that Moss won't try to get one last decent deal when his contract is up and the Pats refusing to match another offer.

If you do, you are clearly biased on the situation and not looking at this team objectively.

And BTW, I can see Moss getting to the point where his skills disapear overnight. Look at many elite WR in their mid-30s and that is exactly what happened to them. WRs can hit the age wall pretty hard and fast in their mid-30s. Look at Marvin Harrison, Cris Carter, and others. That isn't a swipe at Moss, but just the harsh fact of WRs in their mid-30s.

 

[emoney_33]

I don't think it is fairly obvious anyone is going to retire here outside of Brady and maybe Faulk. Only two players have thus far been given the ability to retire with the Pats under any circumstance thus far have been Bruschi and Brown. I don't think Moss is close to Belichick's heart as either of those guys. Both had histories with Belichick back to 1996.

If you think it is obvious that Moss will retire here unless he plays to retire in the next year or two, you haven't been following this team. Virtually everyone is cutable or tradeable under the right circumstances.

The circumstances will never be "right".

 

[emoney_33]

But you don't know when Moss will retire (or if he won't be one of those players who decides to stay at the dance for a year or two too long than they should have) or if he will take less to stay here when his contract is up in a year or if Belichick decides to move on. Sorry, you don't know any of the potential situations that might occure over the next few years that could cause the Pats and Moss to part ways.

Yea I'm stating my opinion, congratulations for picking up on that. I can give the same possibilities and hypotheticals for Brady.

If you do, you are clearly biased on the situation and not looking at this team objectively.

Actually it is quite the opposite. All signs point to Moss not wanting to play elsewhere. All signs point to everyone on the Patriots feeling he is worth it. No signs point to things changing. No signs point to Moss trying to play way too long as to the detriment of a team. No signs point to Moss likely to want another big contract elsewhere. It is you who may be biased or not paying attention.

I stated my opinion on what is likely to happen given all that we know. I don't really care that there is a possibility things will turn out differently. There is also a possibility that Brady wont' finish his career here, but you wouldn't jump on me when I say it's pretty clear IMO that he will.

 

[Mabeyitstrue]

It's funny to me that we won the game and all week long all they are talking about is Moss. We won the game, who cares what happend in the past we can't do anything about it.....time to move on.

The man is a stud a first ballot HOF and one of my fav's NFL players of all time, give the man a break, you can't be superman all the time, even Clark Kent had his bad days

Coach,Onwership and players need to stop talking and just DO THERE JOB.


and yes I do drink the koolaid:americaflag:

 

[Rob0729]

The circumstances will never be "right".

Now who is being biased and not dealing with reality. Sorry, there are any number of dozen situations where the Pats might part ways with Moss before he is ready to retire. Not being able to accept this is just proving my assumption that you are Moss homer.

And I say this for basically anyone on the team other than Brady. I will through Faulk in there since he is coming to the end of the line anyway. There have been very few Patriots players who have retired as Patriots during the Belichick era.

 

[condon84]

Interesting.

I wonder if Hoge really believes this or if he's just being a contrarian, or maybe ESPN asked him to be the counterpoint to all the analysts they have that's been critical of Moss.

 

[thechris]

Seriously. Who the fock cares. That was last week. Time to look towards Buffalo.

 

[Rob0729]

Yea I'm stating my opinion, congratulations for picking up on that. I can give the same possibilities and hypotheticals for Brady.



Actually it is quite the opposite. All signs point to Moss not wanting to play elsewhere. All signs point to everyone on the Patriots feeling he is worth it. No signs point to things changing. No signs point to Moss trying to play way too long as to the detriment of a team. No signs point to Moss likely to want another big contract elsewhere. It is you who may be biased or not paying attention.

I stated my opinion on what is likely to happen given all that we know. I don't really care that there is a possibility things will turn out differently. There is also a possibility that Brady wont' finish his career here, but you wouldn't jump on me when I say it's pretty clear IMO that he will.

What signs is that exactly? You mean when Moss actually shopped himself around before he signed his current contract? The fact that the Pats had to give Moss one of the largest per year contracts for a WR doesn't indicate might leave for the money in a year? The fact that the Pats only gave him a three year deal rather than a 4-5 year deal tells you the Pats are thinking long term with him?

As for signs on whether Moss will stay to long at the dance or not, there is no indication either way whether he will willingly retire when he hits the age wall or go kicking or screaming. You think there is proof that he will retire gracefully. I say we don't know either way.

The only reason I think Brady will finish his career here is because I think Kraft will override Belichick if he tries to cut or trade him. But even then there is a possibility that Brady goes elsewhere. He is the safest bet to finish his career here.

Again, there are no concrete signs either way that are definitive that Moss will or won't retire a Patriot. Based on Belichick's track record, I wouldn't bet on him retiring a Patriot unless he plans to retire in the next year or two.

 

[emoney_33]

Now who is being biased and not dealing with reality. Sorry, there are any number of dozen situations where the Pats might part ways with Moss before he is ready to retire. Not being able to accept this is just proving my assumption that you are Moss homer.

I said none of those circumstances WOULD happen, and you say I'm not dealing with reality? It is my opinion that none of that will happen. You are trying to tell me for sure that you know Moss won't retire here? I'm a Moss homer because I don't believe any of your hypothetical situations are likely to happen? Yea OK. You could easily say there are dozen of situations where the Pats might part ways with Brady. So believing Brady will retire a Patriot is being a Brady homer and biased as well?

And I say this for basically anyone on the team other than Brady. I will through Faulk in there since he is coming to the end of the line anyway. There have been very few Patriots players who have retired as Patriots during the Belichick era.

You aren't saying anything novel here. Randy Moss is a rare player, I believe he will retire a Patriot. All the hypothetical possible situations you can think of will not change my OPINION. I never claimed it was impossible for Moss not to retire here. All the evidence however leads me to believe it is likely he will. Same with Brady.

 

[emoney_33]

What signs is that exactly? You mean when Moss actually shopped himself around before he signed his current contract? The fact that the Pats had to give Moss one of the largest per year contracts for a WR doesn't indicate might leave for the money in a year? The fact that the Pats only gave him a three year deal rather than a 4-5 year deal tells you the Pats are thinking long term with him?

As for signs on whether Moss will stay to long at the dance or not, there is no indication either way whether he will willingly retire when he hits the age wall or go kicking or screaming. You think there is proof that he will retire gracefully. I say we don't know either way.

The only reason I think Brady will finish his career here is because I think Kraft will override Belichick if he tries to cut or trade him. But even then there is a possibility that Brady goes elsewhere. He is the safest bet to finish his career here.

Again, there are no concrete signs either way that are definitive that Moss will or won't retire a Patriot. Based on Belichick's track record, I wouldn't bet on him retiring a Patriot unless he plans to retire in the next year or two.

You just love to argue don't you? I was fairly certain Troy Brown and Tedy Bruschi would retire Patriots, would you have argued with me then too?

Based on everything I have seen and heard from all involved, IMO Moss will retire in New England. Get over it, it's my opinion

 

[Rob0729]

You just love to argue don't you? I was fairly certain Troy Brown and Tedy Bruschi would retire Patriots, would you have argued with me then too?

Based on everything I have seen and heard from all involved, IMO Moss will retire in New England. Get over it, it's my opinion

Ring!! Hello Kettle! It is the Pot! You're black.

I do think Moss' I want to come back to the Pats as long as they pay me my price stance the last time he was a free agent spoke pretty clearly.

 

[emoney_33]

Ring!! Hello Kettle! It is the Pot! You're black.

I do think Moss' I want to come back to the Pats as long as they pay me my price stance the last time he was a free agent spoke pretty clearly.

OK and we disagree, congrats. Move on

 

[Rob0729]

OK and we disagree, congrats. Move on

To what exactly? No one on this board wants to talk about anything but Moss. There are like 18 active threads on Moss.