FARINELLA: Piling on Moss too easy ... and wrong

[tanked_as_usual]

I dont believe people are making excuses for moss.....they were just the realistic ones who knew the bad as well as the good that came with moss.......you can't be down on him now if you weren't up on him when he is performing well.......it is no different than any other player where someone can bad mouth the player until the player plays poorly and say 'see? I told you so'

3500 yards and 43 TD's in 3 years is something no other WR has ever come close to achieving with the pats (or most teams).....people should start with that before bashing him

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I dont believe people are making excuses for moss.....they were just the realistic ones who knew the bad as well as the good that came with moss.......you can't be down on him now if you weren't up on him when he is performing well.......it is no different than any other player where someone can bad mouth the player until the player plays poorly and say 'see? I told you so'

3500 yards and 43 TD's in 3 years is something no other WR has ever come close to achieving with the pats (or most teams).....people should start with that before bashing him

Sure they are but that's what we all do when something we believe in is threatened.

You do it incessantly of late to BB over not drafting enough linebackers even though he somehow managed to put this team in position to play in 4 superbowls in 8 seasons and win 3 while losing one in an otherwise merely undefeated season. You blame him now because it isn't working this season. You feel justified in doing so because you wanted him to do something else even when he was winning and that enables you to say I told you so...

Bill is right though, stats are for losers. Winning is what matters. There are lots of reasons we aren't winning this season and LB play like WR play are just a couple of them.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

Thanks SVN! nice article indeed. I emailed the author and thanked him for writing such a balanced article. Going to forward the link to as many as possible.

Hope the Moss bashers on this forum read this article and try to keep their opinions to themselves for at least one more game and evaluate Moss' performance the next game before blasting him.

 

[emoney_33]

Well it's clear that people with the bias in their mind will never let it go. And then the idiots like Felger will just go way over the top piling on just to get ratings. It's simply amazing that Moss is incapable of having a bad game unless he isn't trying. That is some ridiculously inhumane talent or some ridiculously high standards. Randy Moss has played with the same effort the entire season. He has one bad game and the body language brigade jumps all over every bad play.

Of course Brady and BB will get all the credit for "babying" him when he comes out and tears it up in Buffalo. It's just incredible at how petty and unfair people are to a player who does nothing but HELP their "favorite" team win football games. I can't stand the media, but the "fans" that are jumping is the trully sad part. I'm just glad the people who actually matter don't fall for the crap.

 

[wilfork is beastin']

Tell us about his stats in the 2007 playoffs.

you mean when he caught what would have been the go-ahead TD in the Superbowl had our defense held?

 

[Rob0729]

What Felger is doing with Moss and slamming Moss for a piss poor, heartless effort on Sunday are two different things. Felger doesn't like Moss and has been slamming the guy for weeks. That is different than a lot of the media is doing.

Fact of the matter is Moss quit on Sunday. For that, he deserves whatever crap he gets for his performance on that day. I don't care what his stats are and what he has done in other games. His performance on Sunday was disgraceful.

I don't want Moss run out of town. I am not a huge fan of the guy, but I appreciate what he has done for this team in the past. I don't think we should have some blind loyalty to the guy and ignore what we saw on Sunday and make excuses for the guy.

I felt he quit in the Saints game, but he wasn't the only one (far from it). So I won't get on his case about that. I will get on the entire team's case for that.

I hope all this media attention will fuel him to prove everyone wrong and have an All Pro type of performance the rest of the way. I do worry that it could send him in the opposite direction especially since a large number of WRs seem to be headcases. I am willing to give Moss the benefit of the doubt and say now that he got it out of his system, he will be fine. But I still think he deserves a lot of the criticism he is getting from the media. Some of it is ridiculous, but some of it is valid.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

What Felger is doing with Moss and slamming Moss for a piss poor, heartless effort on Sunday are two different things. Felger doesn't like Moss and has been slamming the guy for weeks. That is different than a lot of the media is doing.

Fact of the matter is Moss quit on Sunday. For that, he deserves whatever crap he gets for his performance on that day. I don't care what his stats are and what he has done in other games. His performance on Sunday was disgraceful.

I don't want Moss run out of town. I am not a huge fan of the guy, but I appreciate what he has done for this team in the past. I don't think we should have some blind loyalty to the guy and ignore what we saw on Sunday and make excuses for the guy.

I felt he quit in the Saints game, but he wasn't the only one (far from it). So I won't get on his case about that. I will get on the entire team's case for that.

I hope all this media attention will fuel him to prove everyone wrong and have an All Pro type of performance the rest of the way. I do worry that it could send him in the opposite direction especially since a large number of WRs seem to be headcases. I am willing to give Moss the benefit of the doubt and say now that he got it out of his system, he will be fine. But I still think he deserves a lot of the criticism he is getting from the media. Some of it is ridiculous, but some of it is valid.

Well said Rob.

Guess that is exactly what the so-called 'Moss campers' are trying to point out. He certainly deserves strong criticism for his Sunday's play and people can have different opinions on how strong the criticism should be given what happened during the previous six days and his injury and whatever.

But it is galling to read some of the 'anti-Moss campers' on this board act like mini-Flegers.

 

[RichardHead]

Interesting piece from Rapoport in the Herald:

BostonHerald.com - Blogs: Rap Sheet Blog Archive Edge NFL Matchup exec weighs in: “I thought this game was no different for Randy Moss than any other game.”

Here’s Cosell, on Moss’ catch and fumble: “Normally when Moss catches a ball in the middle of the field facing the quarterback, he goes down. This one, he actually puts his shoulder into (the defender). That’s what caused the fumble. You could argue he’s giving more effort, as opposed to less effort.

and

Here’s Cosell on Moss’ drop on the slant: “That ball was tipped by Julius Peppers, and it changed trajectory. When that happens on a short throw, it’s not really a drop. I went back and watched it 15 times. You see the ball start to wobble.”

 

[JSn]

Fact of the matter is Moss quit on Sunday. For that, he deserves whatever crap he gets for his performance on that day. I don't care what his stats are and what he has done in other games. His performance on Sunday was disgraceful.

I don't want Moss run out of town. I am not a huge fan of the guy, but I appreciate what he has done for this team in the past. I don't think we should have some blind loyalty to the guy and ignore what we saw on Sunday and make excuses for the guy.

Alllllllrighty then.

Film guru sees nothing amiss with Moss - AFC East Blog - ESPN

Greg Cosell, a 31-year veteran of NFL Films and executive producer of ESPN's "Edge NFL Matchup," watches more film than Gene Shalit and Leonard Maltin combined.

Cosell examined the tape from Sunday and didn't notice anything troublesome about Moss' effort.

"The general answer to your question is, I thought it was no different from Randy Moss than in any other game," Cosell told Rapoport. "In fact, early on, I thought his effort on run blocking was very good. I think you have to see this game in the context of how the Panthers chose to play defense. Before the snap, the Panthers removed Randy Moss from the game. That's why he wasn't targeted, not because he 'shut it down.' That had nothing to do with anything."​

Cosell explained the Panthers played zone with a safety over Moss to remove him from the game and leaving Wes Welker one-on-one.

BostonHerald.com - Blogs: Rap Sheet Blog Archive Edge NFL Matchup exec weighs in: “I thought this game was no different for Randy Moss than any other game.”

Here’s Cosell, on Moss’ catch and fumble: “Normally when Moss catches a ball in the middle of the field facing the quarterback, he goes down. This one, he actually puts his shoulder into (the defender). That’s what caused the fumble. You could argue he’s giving more effort, as opposed to less effort.“

Here’s Cosell on Moss’ drop on the slant: “That ball was tipped by Julius Peppers, and it changed trajectory. When that happens on a short throw, it’s not really a drop. I went back and watched it 15 times. You see the ball start to wobble.”

Here’s Cosell on the INT intended for Moss: “You can tell Tom Brady was under pressure and fell away from the throw. Moss saw the coverage, with (Chris) Gamble sitting to the outside, and my guess is, he figured he was not getting ball on out route because of Gamble. So he throttled it down. If you want to look at that play and say he didn’t play with any effort, that’s fine. But I thought the coverage took away the throw, so he did not come out of the break with any effort because he didn’t think the throw was going to be there.“

 

[JSn]

Well said Rob.

Guess that is exactly what the so-called 'Moss campers' are trying to point out. He certainly deserves strong criticism for his Sunday's play and people can have different opinions on how strong the criticism should be given what happened during the previous six days and his injury and whatever.

But it is galling to read some of the 'anti-Moss campers' on this board act like mini-Flegers.

Where would we be without guys like you make sure we know the goods.

 

[RichardHead]

Beat you by one minute...ha!

 

[upstater1]

I agree with what Cosell wrote about two of those particular plays, although the Peppers' tip he didn't really get after it. He turtled.

The fumble was inexcusable no matter what, but the interception was on Brady and not Moss.

 

[Rob0729]

Alllllllrighty then.

Film guru sees nothing amiss with Moss - AFC East Blog - ESPN



BostonHerald.com - Blogs: Rap Sheet Blog Archive Edge NFL Matchup exec weighs in: “I thought this game was no different for Randy Moss than any other game.”

And you will have another film guru like a Ron Jaworski who will tell you the exact opposite. Whether Peppers tipped the ball in the slant, it doesn't change the fact that Moss short armed the ball and took him eyes off the ball before it was in his hands because he turned his head the other direction to look at the defender coming at him. Whether Brady's throw was off on the INT and it was Brady's fault, it doesn't change the fact that Moss was in position to break up the pass and made no effort to do so.

And Cossel doesn't seem to address other plays where he didn't get the ball and was hit off the line and didn't make the effort after that.

 

[emoney_33]

Fact of the matter is Moss quit on Sunday.

I'll stop reading right here because this isn't even CLOSE to being a fact, no matter how much you guys continue to attempt to make it so. You guys are attempting to determine that he wasn't trying by looking at his body language. This makes no sense and it is quite innacurate to call his performance "heartless".

He continued to block, he continued to run routes, he continued to take 2 defenders away from the play to open up things for Watson and Welker. Go back and watch the tape, he looks just fine running his route on the Watson TD for instance, in which the outside DB focused on Moss at first giving enough space for Watson to get open for the TD.

The actual "fact of the matter" is:

Moss had a tough game. Every player in the history of the game has bad games even while physically healthy.

The notion that he "quit" is ridiculous, and there is absolutely nothing to back that up aside from comments from outsiders.

Brady, Faulk, Bruschi, Rodney, Brown, Welker etc... have ALL had bad games that had nothing to do with injury. Not a single one of them, nor anyone else in the NFL, is thrown under a microscope like Moss is. A few years ago with the Brady body language debacle, was he "quitting" on the team? Did any of these guys who performed poorly or made mental errors during games "mail it in"?

He doesn't look like he is trying even when he's producing at the highest level. He's not in his prime, and he's absolutely allowed to have bad games from time to time.

Another "FACT" is that there is no way in hell Randy Moss would have put up a HOF career if he had a tendency to NOT TRY. I don't care how much talent he has, the results he has had are impossible without hard work and EFFORT. Period.

If he had a tendency to give up on games like that idiot Gamble seems to think, then he wouldn't have continued to put up HOF numbers. All the "facts" point to Moss not quitting, yet everyone wants to just dismiss them all and demand their eyeball test and memory/feelings from the game are dead-on accurate.

 

[Rob0729]

I agree with what Cosell wrote about two of those particular plays, although the Peppers' tip he didn't really get after it. He turtled.

The fumble was inexcusable no matter what, but the interception was on Brady and not Moss.

As I said in the other post, whether the INT was on Brady or Moss in terms of whether Brady was off target or Moss was out of position, Moss' lack of effort to break up the pass is on him. He had an opportunity to at least break up the pass and chose to give up on the route.

 

[emoney_33]

Alllllllrighty then.

Film guru sees nothing amiss with Moss - AFC East Blog - ESPN



BostonHerald.com - Blogs: Rap Sheet Blog Archive Edge NFL Matchup exec weighs in: “I thought this game was no different for Randy Moss than any other game.”

I am so glad this was posted, thank you. I just want to add to the INT play, that it is also reasonable to believe the Moss expected the pass to go on the inside. Considering the DB was shading to the outside, Moss may have read that and cut the break short expecting the ball to the inside. But the naysayers want no part of these things, they just want to attribute all Moss failures to lack of effort or quitting.

 

[Sicilian]

Alllllllrighty then.

Film guru sees nothing amiss with Moss - AFC East Blog - ESPN



BostonHerald.com - Blogs: Rap Sheet Blog Archive Edge NFL Matchup exec weighs in: “I thought this game was no different for Randy Moss than any other game.”

Cosell's comment on run blocking is the biggest one to me. Why would a WR who's not giving a full effort "give up" on the plays that give him the most glory (catching passes) but still continue to block with effort and effectiveness? It just doesn't hold water.

He had a bad game. His head may have been elsewhere a bit, no excuses. But I won't question his effort, it just doesn't make sense.

 

[emoney_33]

And you will have another film guru like a Ron Jaworski who will tell you the exact opposite. Whether Peppers tipped the ball in the slant, it doesn't change the fact that Moss short armed the ball and took him eyes off the ball before it was in his hands because he turned his head the other direction to look at the defender coming at him. Whether Brady's throw was off on the INT and it was Brady's fault, it doesn't change the fact that Moss was in position to break up the pass and made no effort to do so.

And Cossel doesn't seem to address other plays where he didn't get the ball and was hit off the line and didn't make the effort after that.

Moss short arming a pass does not support your "he quit" hypothesis.
Moss was NOT in position to break up the INT, but he did push the interceptor out of bounds and did not "QUIT" on the play. The DB was shading outside btw.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Making excuses for Moss, or in some case even denying there was anything amiss on Sunday is as wrong as the ignorant, gleeful kneejerk piling on we've seen here and from some agenda driven hacks in the media. They polarize any rational discussion of what is in fact a legitimate concern in which the truth lies somewhere in the middle and is troubling enough in it's own right. What gauls me most about Randy's defenders though is their need to attempt to smear others who have never lacked effort and rarely if ever lacked focus in their attempt to rationalize his performance on Sunday and at points in his career including here.

,,,

Yeah. You're absolutely right. It's possible to say that Randy dogged it on Sunday without running him out of town. If there's any player on the Pats who "is who he is," it's Randy Moss.

Moss is pretty much a case of what you see is what you get; it's not really all that complicated. He tends to get discouraged and then lose focus at inopportune times; things that would get a less talented player tossed off a team.

So, he's a Prima Donna. What's new? Everyone knew that when he came here. It's worked really well so far, even when Brady was down last year and his critics expected him to fold.

The choice now is either to figure out how to get him back into the flow or give up on him. I vote for figuring out how to get him back, which is what his teammates and Coach seem to be doing.

 

[Rob0729]

I'll stop reading right here because this isn't even CLOSE to being a fact, no matter how much you guys continue to attempt to make it so. You guys are attempting to determine that he wasn't trying by looking at his body language. This makes no sense and it is quite innacurate to call his performance "heartless".

He continued to block, he continued to run routes, he continued to take 2 defenders away from the play to open up things for Watson and Welker. Go back and watch the tape, he looks just fine running his route on the Watson TD for instance, in which the outside DB focused on Moss at first giving enough space for Watson to get open for the TD.

The actual "fact of the matter" is:

Moss had a tough game. Every player in the history of the game has bad games even while physically healthy.

The notion that he "quit" is ridiculous, and there is absolutely nothing to back that up aside from comments from outsiders.

Brady, Faulk, Bruschi, Rodney, Brown, Welker etc... have ALL had bad games that had nothing to do with injury. Not a single one of them, nor anyone else in the NFL, is thrown under a microscope like Moss is. A few years ago with the Brady body language debacle, was he "quitting" on the team? Did any of these guys who performed poorly or made mental errors during games "mail it in"?

He doesn't look like he is trying even when he's producing at the highest level. He's not in his prime, and he's absolutely allowed to have bad games from time to time.

Another "FACT" is that there is no way in hell Randy Moss would have put up a HOF career if he had a tendency to NOT TRY. I don't care how much talent he has, the results he has had are impossible without hard work and EFFORT. Period.

If he had a tendency to give up on games like that idiot Gamble seems to think, then he wouldn't have continued to put up HOF numbers. All the "facts" point to Moss not quitting, yet everyone wants to just dismiss them all and demand their eyeball test and memory/feelings from the game are dead-on accurate.

Well if Brady, Faulk, Bruschi, Rodney, Brown, and Welker say so. Bruschi and Rodney are two of the biggest Patriots bashers in the media. Brady has a long history of calling out individual teammates and throwing them under the bus.

Cris Carter who has been the biggest Randy supporter in the media for the longest time called Moss' performance disgraceful because he gave up. Granted Carter doesn't blame Moss for it, he blames Belichick for sending him home on Wednesday.

I don't get why admitting Randy quit in one game (well two, but as I said most of the team quit in the other game) is such a horrible thing to admit. I mean you can't even accept he quit in the past even when Moss himself admitted to quitting on the Raiders. It was a horrible thing for the game itself, but if he changes his attitude it isn't horrible for going forward.