MMQB on Moss and Brady

[emoney_33]

His short-arming a perfect pass on that slant yesterday is one glaring example of something amiss with the guy.

He's not the only talented WR to short arm a pass, and not a single other receiver gets accused of 'dogging' it or quitting or checking out.

 

[Rob0729]

Brady is doing better this season than he has any other season aside from 2007. I know Brady is amazing and can make do, but let's not fantasize about things. We had plenty of low scoring defensive games with Branch, Givens, Troy etc...

Come on. You can't believe this. Brady is not having a good season, but it has a lot to do with circumstances beyond his control.

A fact? Or a media-driven opinion? Funny even with this fact he still puts up monstrous numbers throughout his entire career. According to this fact, all you have to do is double/triple him early and then he'll shut down the rest of the game. Yet he still puts up the numbers he does over his career, funny how that works. Teams focus on him ALL game, the only way not to is with constant pressure on Brady.

Media driven things like this are based on facts. Yes, Moss has been known to give up in games when he is pressured early. Look at the NFC Championship game in 1999. It isn't that he quits for games on end, but there are individual games where he has been taken out early and dogged it the rest of the game and this has happened many times in his career.

You think he dogged it because the media has branded him as a player that dogs it. Thus you attribute things to him dogging it. Other players could give the same body language and it would be completely ignored by your subconscious. Moss had a bad game, EVERYONE has bad games. Remember the "Brady body language" season, that was just as much rubbish. But people need something to complain about and someone to blame things on.

Don't tell me how I think. I could easily say you think it is a media created falicy that Moss dogs it at times because he is a Patriot and you are a big fan of his. I think there are enough people on this board that will attest that I am not a mindless fan who just regurgertates what the media says. In fact, I have been pretty vocal that overall I think most of the talking heads of the media know less than a lot of the fans (even the former players).

 

[emoney_33]

Come on. You can't believe this. Brady is not having a good season, but it has a lot to do with circumstances beyond his control.

He is having a better season than 01, 02, 03, 04, 05 or 06. Are you trying to argue against this? Has 2007 warped your memories that much?

Media driven things like this are based on facts. Yes, Moss has been known to give up in games when he is pressured early. Look at the NFC Championship game in 1999. It isn't that he quits for games on end, but there are individual games where he has been taken out early and dogged it the rest of the game and this has happened many times in his career.

OK and BB is a scumbag as well then. Let's not pick and choose what we want to believe from the media here. BB is not a good person, rather he's an ego-drive mad man and a cheater! Every receiver has bad games, but for Moss the only way he can have a bad game is when he doesn't try right?

Don't tell me how I think. I could easily say you think it is a media created falicy that Moss dogs it at times because he is a Patriot and you are a big fan of his. I think there are enough people on this board that will attest that I am not a mindless fan who just regurgertates what the media says. In fact, I have been pretty vocal that overall I think most of the talking heads of the media know less than a lot of the fans (even the former players).

You could say that true, but AdT is a Patriot and very talented. I want him off the team ASAP. What exactly in Moss' career makes you believe he dogs it, and I do not think body language is a valid argument. Otherwise that means Brady quit on the team some years back

 

[Rob0729]

He's not the only talented WR to short arm a pass, and not a single other receiver gets accused of 'dogging' it or quitting or checking out.

Are you serious? Many receivers get called out for dogging it when they do stuff like that. Many of them don't have the name recognition of Moss though so it doesn't become as big of a deal.

Hey Moss may be injured. That would be a legitimate excuse for his play yesterday, but if not, he was clearly dogging it.

 

[emoney_33]

Are you serious? Many receivers get called out for dogging it when they do stuff like that. Many of them don't have the name recognition of Moss though so it doesn't become as big of a deal.

Hey Moss may be injured. That would be a legitimate excuse for his play yesterday, but if not, he was clearly dogging it.

They are human too ya know. But we all know Moss is not a physical receiver from the get go, that doesn't make him less valuable than a Givens type of receiver. Sure there are specific plays in a game that you may rather the toughness than the finesse talent of Moss, but overall you want Moss as a whole package over just about every other WR in the game.

Every single receiver has strengths and weaknesses, Moss' strengths are incredible and far outweigh his weaknesses. That doesn't mean it is right for us to expect perfection, or expect him to have no weaknesses. He had a bad game for whatever reason, the amount of attention and accusing him of dogging it is ridiculous though.

His mere presence as a decoy yesterday was more valuable than what many other receivers could have given us. 1 catch for Moss is not a useless day, especially when you see the days Welker and Watson were able to have. I'm just saying give the guy a break, enjoy what he brings to the team because once he's done it's likely we'll never see a receiver of his calibur on the team again

 

[SVN]

i findit hard why moss would dog it suddenly . he certainly is not less motivated. people say the saints game frustated him but try and watch his postgame
NFL Videos: Patriots postgame press conference
at the 1:30 mark .
Does this look like a guy who isnt motivated to play ? 4quarters later suddenly he is being called a quitter and all that ? just unbelievable.

 

[emoney_33]

Are you serious? Many receivers get called out for dogging it when they do stuff like that. Many of them don't have the name recognition of Moss though so it doesn't become as big of a deal.

Hey Moss may be injured. That would be a legitimate excuse for his play yesterday, but if not, he was clearly dogging it.

BTW other receivers don't get called out for dogging it like Moss. They may get criticized for the specific play, but they do not get accused of checking out, quitting on the team, need babying etc...

 

[alvinnf]

Anybody ever think Moss is hurt. He tweaked his back earlier in the year. What if he is nursing a bad back. I can't do anything if my back is tweaked. When I watch him play, I see a guy who doesn't seem comfortable in his own body, not a guy who's pouting and quit.......

 

[Rob0729]

He is having a better season than 01, 02, 03, 04, 05 or 06. Are you trying to argue against this? Has 2007 warped your memories that much?

Have you watched the games? He has made many uncharacteristically bad decisions that have helped directly in several of the losses. Again, I don't put all the blame on Brady for that, but there is a lot more to evaluating a QB than his stats line.

OK and BB is a scumbag as well then. Let's not pick and choose what we want to believe from the media here. BB is not a good person, rather he's an ego-drive mad man and a cheater! Every receiver has bad games, but for Moss the only way he can have a bad game is when he doesn't try right?

Again, I am going on my own eyes, not the media. I am able to make my own judgments.

Besides, publically, Belichick is a scumbag. He is a sore loser. He is testy with the media. He did cheat (although the media blew the infraction from jaywalking to mass murder). If I wasn't a Pats fan, I would blast Belichick more for not shaking opposing coaches' hands in many of the losses and the way he handles the press conferences.

You could say that true, but AdT is a Patriot and very talented. I want him off the team ASAP. What exactly in Moss' career makes you believe he dogs it, and I do not think body language is a valid argument. Otherwise that means Brady quit on the team some years back

Would you feel the same way about Adalius Thomas if he had 9 to 10 sacks right now, but was a near non-factor the last three weeks? Comparing AD to Moss is a little silly. You can accuse Moss of dogging it for a few games this season, but he is still near the top in most of the receiving categories and has had some All Pro games. Thomas, on the other hand, has been a complete non-factor all year in an area that is significantly lacking for this team (pass rush) and has been talking crap about Belichick this year. I don't know how you can compare the two.

 

[Rob0729]

BTW other receivers don't get called out for dogging it like Moss. They may get criticized for the specific play, but they do not get accused of checking out, quitting on the team, need babying etc...

Moss has earned a reputation unlike many other receivers. He publically admitted that he was giving up on the Raiders, he walked off the field with a live ball when the ball was intercepted in his direction rather than trying to make the tackle for Minnesotta, he walked back to the dressing room with time left in a game in another game, and against the Giants in the NFC Championship game there were multiple times the camera showing him not even trying to fake running the route when the ball wasn't going in his direction. There is plenty of reasons why the media jumps on him more than another receiver who does it once.

 

[Rob0729]

They are human too ya know. But we all know Moss is not a physical receiver from the get go, that doesn't make him less valuable than a Givens type of receiver. Sure there are specific plays in a game that you may rather the toughness than the finesse talent of Moss, but overall you want Moss as a whole package over just about every other WR in the game.

Every single receiver has strengths and weaknesses, Moss' strengths are incredible and far outweigh his weaknesses. That doesn't mean it is right for us to expect perfection, or expect him to have no weaknesses. He had a bad game for whatever reason, the amount of attention and accusing him of dogging it is ridiculous though.

His mere presence as a decoy yesterday was more valuable than what many other receivers could have given us. 1 catch for Moss is not a useless day, especially when you see the days Welker and Watson were able to have. I'm just saying give the guy a break, enjoy what he brings to the team because once he's done it's likely we'll never see a receiver of his calibur on the team again

It sounds like you are making excuses for the guy. He didn't go into the game as a decoy. That is what he became after causing two turnovers and alligator arming another play.

 

[emoney_33]

Have you watched the games? He has made many uncharacteristically bad decisions that have helped directly in several of the losses. Again, I don't put all the blame on Brady for that, but there is a lot more to evaluating a QB than his stats line.

ALL stats point to him having a better year, but you want to rely on your eyes and your memories of 3, 4 and 5 years ago? Really do you think that is the better way? I'm not getting into this statistics debate, but many people around here seem to fantasize about what Brady did pre-2007.

Again, I am going on my own eyes, not the media. I am able to make my own judgments.

Surely the media has no effect on you.

Besides, publically, Belichick is a scumbag. He is a sore loser. He is testy with the media. He did cheat (although the media blew the infraction from jaywalking to mass murder). If I wasn't a Pats fan, I would blast Belichick more for not shaking opposing coaches' hands in many of the losses and the way he handles the press conferences.

Really don't want to touch this at all. He's a scumbag because he doesn't talk to the media, nice. Breaking a rule in an infractions manual is cheating now? Nice. So when you break any rule, even something small like going 1MPH faster than the speed limit, you are cheating at something!

Yep the media doesn't influence you at all

Would you feel the same way about Adalius Thomas if he had 9 to 10 sacks right now, but was a near non-factor the last three weeks? Comparing AD to Moss is a little silly. You can accuse Moss of dogging it for a few games this season, but he is still near the top in most of the receiving categories and has had some All Pro games. Thomas, on the other hand, has been a complete non-factor all year in an area that is significantly lacking for this team (pass rush) and has been talking crap about Belichick this year. I don't know how you can compare the two.

Uhh yea I would actually. I've already said that AdT is an amazing talent and wish there was a way we could get him to just play but he's a douche. Whether he's lighting it up or not, I don't want to root for a player that has that attitude. Really at the end of the day I root for the Patriots, not players on the Patriots. Although I'd probably root for Brady no matter what

 

[emoney_33]

It sounds like you are making excuses for the guy. He didn't go into the game as a decoy. That is what he became after causing two turnovers and alligator arming another play.

The interception was FAR from his fault, but keep thinking Brady is perfect. I never said he had a good game, but he wasn't useless. It's not an excuse, it's a fact. But continue to go overboard, just be careful what you guys wish for.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Welker would struggle to get 3 receptions passed the LOS if you take Moss out of this lineup. This is a pile of trash piece. His teammates voted him as captain because he's a baby right? Good grief, you all can say it as many times as you want, it's not going to make it true. They are not coddling or babying Moss to prevent him from "quitting" or "tanking". But the naysayers need an out, when he inevitably breaks out for another big game they can point to the "coddling" as bringing him off the "edge". It's so ridiculous, setting up the tired failed argument of Moss being a quitter.

It is hilaroius how fans defend the lazy dog Randy Moss and do so by insulting a warrior like Wes Welker.
Unlike Moss, Wes Welker will work hard to get open and he will get his catches game in and game out. This notion that Wes Welker needs Randy Moss to be a effective receiver is hilarious. Wes Welker is today's version of Troy Brown and like Troy, Wes will outwork his coverage every game.
Outworking his coverage is not anything Ruff Ruff Moss has ever been accused of.
Moss being named a captain on this team is a real clue into how this group has lost its' Patriots Way.

 

[Synovia]

His short-arming a perfect pass on that slant yesterday is one glaring example of something amiss with the guy. I'm a big fan of Moss, but yesterday he did not play with much effort because he either is playing injured or struggling emotionally, or both. I would never suggest taking Moss out of the lineup, but something needs to be done to light a fire under his butt.

I don't see us *****ing about the 4 or 5 passes Sammy Morris shortarmed, or the couple Welker did. So why is moss such a big issue?

 

[Synovia]

The interception was FAR from his fault, but keep thinking Brady is perfect.

Far from his fault? It was a terrible throw into double coverage, across the field. It was a terrible decision.

 

[emoney_33]

Far from his fault? It was a terrible throw into double coverage, across the field. It was a terrible decision.

I was disputing the notion that it was Moss' fault. I know it was Brady's fault

 

[Rob0729]

ALL stats point to him having a better year, but you want to rely on your eyes and your memories of 3, 4 and 5 years ago? Really do you think that is the better way? I'm not getting into this statistics debate, but many people around here seem to fantasize about what Brady did pre-2007.

Stats in the NFL are deceiving. Not even Brady's mother would say he is having a great year. He has been brilliant at times, but others he has been part of the problem like last week.

Surely the media has no effect on you.

And if Moss was a Jets' player and having the same exact season, you wouldn't be laughing about how he is dogging it. Sorry, but you seem to let your fandom of Moss cloud your judgement of the guy.

I do not let the media tell me how to think. I think there is enough evidence of me blasting the media both locally and nationally for their assessments on players.

Really don't want to touch this at all. He's a scumbag because he doesn't talk to the media, nice. Breaking a rule in an infractions manual is cheating now? Nice. So when you break any rule, even something small like going 1MPH faster than the speed limit, you are cheating at something!

Yep the media doesn't influence you at all

He may not be a scumbag, but it supports the media assessment of him.

Ummm.... Breaking a rule is the definition of cheating. Belichick didn't cheat, cheat.

And yes if you go 1 MPH or 40 MPH over the posted speed limit, you are technically breaking the law (which I guess you can say it is a form of cheating). Again, I said that Belichick did cheat (there is no disputing that). I also said it was the equivalent of jaywalking where the media blew it up to mass murder.

Uhh yea I would actually. I've already said that AdT is an amazing talent and wish there was a way we could get him to just play but he's a douche. Whether he's lighting it up or not, I don't want to root for a player that has that attitude. Really at the end of the day I root for the Patriots, not players on the Patriots. Although I'd probably root for Brady no matter what

So you agree with me that it is silly to compare AD and Moss because the situations are apples and oranges. You want AD gone because he is talking trash about the organization, not because he is dogging it.

 

[Rob0729]

Far from his fault? It was a terrible throw into double coverage, across the field. It was a terrible decision.

Seriously did we watch the same play? Moss was in position to make the ball. Gamble said that Moss made the break too slow. Even being double covered, Moss was in position to make the play or break it up before any defender could get to it. That INT was on Moss, the one the week before in the endzone against Miami was all Brady though.

Actually I will actually be fair. It was a miscommunication between Moss and Brady. So it could have been Brady's fault or it could be Moss' fault (only Moss and Brady know for sure), but from everything I have seen I think it was Moss'. Moss is still at fault since he didn't even try to break it up eventhough it was in range.

 

[upstater1]

The interception was FAR from his fault, but keep thinking Brady is perfect. I never said he had a good game, but he wasn't useless. It's not an excuse, it's a fact. But continue to go overboard, just be careful what you guys wish for.

I am a big Brady defender, and I think Moss hot-dogged it yesterday and was not into the game.

That being said, Brady saw the pressure and floated that throw. It was on Brady.