Win the Super Bowl or miss the playoffs, I expect major changes in the offseason

[Rob0729]

After this morning, I truly believe that Belichick wants to change the culture of this team. Even Brady seems to be frustrated with the attitude of the lockerroom and has uncharacteristically called out his teammates (and himself) in recent days.

There are a lot of players who weren't going to be on this team next year anyway. It is safe to assume that AD, Burgess, possibly Green, and several others already have their foot out the door long before the last few weeks. I think that Belichick may dump several other players even Moss after this year based on the last month.

I think Belichick will be active in free agency not only to add talent to the team, but leadership. Back in the day, adding guys like Rodney, Bryan Cox, Seau, and others had more than impact on the field. There was a strong leadership core in the lockerroom. I dismissed the losses of Bruschi, Harrison, Seymour, and others for the leadership in the lockerroom thinking others would step up, but it is clear guys like Mayo aren't ready yet.

The Super Bowl years, the Pats had a lot of overachievers and washed up players who were willing to put everything on the line to win a championship. I think we really have to question whether there are many overachievers on this team. I think what happened today in Foxboro is a real shot across the bow at the players.

Everyone has been blaming the coordinators for the problems of this team (and they definitely deserve part of the blame), but I wonder if the players are putting the effort and focus needed to put in for a winner. In the nine years of the Belichick era, we have only heard one case of a player being reprimanded than players had this season and that was Terry Glenn. That tells me that at least Belichick believes there is a real problem with the players and their preparation. I could never see something like this happening when guys like McGinest, Bruschi, Rodney, Law, or Milloy were patrolling the lockerroom.

I have tried to be patient and hopeful with this team. But when I see Belichick sending players home for being late, I think there are a lot of attitude and/or effort problems going on that we don't know about. Belichick is not a guy who tends to overreact to a specific situation.

 

[brady et al fan]

me too. You've got to admit though, Bill did not have a good first year without Pioli in free agency. The draft class looks good but he really missed on free agents. Lets hope this year is the exception and he'll hit on them this year.

 

[pats1]

I think that has become increasingly apparent. Like I said, AD will be the first to leave. He's gone to battle with BB ever since his benching.

 

[mayoclinic]

After this morning, I truly believe that Belichick wants to change the culture of this team. Even Brady seems to be frustrated with the attitude of the lockerroom and has uncharacteristically called out his teammates (and himself) in recent days.

There are a lot of players who weren't going to be on this team next year anyway. It is safe to assume that AD, Burgess, possibly Green, and several others already have their foot out the door long before the last few weeks. I think that Belichick may dump several other players even Moss after this year based on the last month.

I think Belichick will be active in free agency not only to add talent to the team, but leadership. Back in the day, adding guys like Rodney, Bryan Cox, Seau, and others had more than impact on the field. There was a strong leadership core in the lockerroom. I dismissed the losses of Bruschi, Harrison, Seymour, and others for the leadership in the lockerroom thinking others would step up, but it is clear guys like Mayo aren't ready yet.

The Super Bowl years, the Pats had a lot of overachievers and washed up players who were willing to put everything on the line to win a championship. I think we really have to question whether there are many overachievers on this team. I think what happened today in Foxboro is a real shot across the bow at the players.

Everyone has been blaming the coordinators for the problems of this team (and they definitely deserve part of the blame), but I wonder if the players are putting the effort and focus needed to put in for a winner. In the nine years of the Belichick era, we have only heard one case of a player being reprimanded than players had this season and that was Terry Glenn. That tells me that at least Belichick believes there is a real problem with the players and their preparation. I could never see something like this happening when guys like McGinest, Bruschi, Rodney, Law, or Milloy were patrolling the lockerroom.

I have tried to be patient and hopeful with this team. But when I see Belichick sending players home for being late, I think there are a lot of attitude and/or effort problems going on that we don't know about. Belichick is not a guy who tends to overreact to a specific situation.

I agree with you. There will be major changes, though I have no idea exactly what they will be. But I think practically anything could happen.

Though the season isn't over yet, the regular season is 75% complete, and this is the first team in 10 years under BB to significantly underperform relative to its talent level and expectations, and also the first team under BB not to clearly get better as the season progressed:

2000 - 1st year under BB, low talent level, low expectations
2001 - low expectations, overperformed and won the SB
2002 - didn't meet expectations, but had serious personnel issues vs. the run and performed much better by the end of the season; just missed the playoffs, but was playing well at the end
2003 - 14-2 and SB champions with a dominant defense
2004 - 14-2 and SB champions with a great power running game
2005 - expectations sabotaged by uncertainty at the LB position (retirement of Ted Johnson and Tedy's stroke). "Brown and Beisel" didn't cut it. Team finished 10-6 but still won the AFCE, played well at the end, and almost made a serious run in the playoffs.
2006 - team sabotaged by Deion Branch's holdout and lack of playmakers at WR, but still finished 12-4, upset San Diego, and just missed the SB.
2007 - 17-0. Even losing the SB doesn't detract from what an accomplishment that was.
2008 - 11-5 without Tom Brady and with a horrible secondary and aging LBs. Team played very well at the end, and would probably have been a force in the playoffs if they hadn't missed out on tiebreaking rules.

This is the first team that has been up and down and inconsistent this late in the season. I doubt BB will tolerate that level of inconsistency, as well as numerous other things:

- Randy Moss (a team captain) showing less than ideal effort and being late for a meeting.
- Adalius Thomas being a healthy scratch and openly critical of BB, while underperforming at a major level.
- Reports of players in the locker room being relatively nonchalant after a crushing loss to Miami.

Perhaps we've brought in one too many players from Oakland, but there certainly does not seem to be the same team culture as in years past, or the same attitude that losing is unacceptable. For Tedy Bruschi to publicly questions the "heart" of the team would have been unthinkable at the beginning of the season.

I think BB will be very focused on what kind of players he targets in the offseason, and will re-make this team with a different chemistry. High motor high-character guys will be targeted as much as talent in specific areas.

I think there have been issues with the coaching staff and the game plans and play calling, as well as with the talent in certain areas (most notably the pass rush). There may be some turnover in that area as well. But for an organization famous for being more than the sum of its parts, this team has been conspicuously less than the sum of its parts so far this season. I don't see that being tolerated.

Heads will roll.

 

[mayoclinic]

me too. You've got to admit though, Bill did not have a good first year without Pioli in free agency. The draft class looks good but he really missed on free agents. Lets hope this year is the exception and he'll hit on them this year.

The Pats did very well with Leigh Bodden and Brandon McGowan. Chris Baker looked like a star in the preseason and has been a team player - but we don't seem to have used him. Fred Taylor seemed like a great pickup, in spite of his injury. He could be a factor if we make the playoffs. Clearly there were some major misses such as Joey Galloway and Shawn Springs, but we've had major misses with Pioli too, such as Monte Beisel, Chad Brown, Jason Webster, Fernando Bryant and Victor Hobson.

I do think that BB has missed Pioli a lot this season - more as a foil and someone to bounce ideas off of on a daily basis and someone whose judgment he respected than in terms of the actual personnel moves. I think Pioli was a bit of a restraining influence on BB. I'm not sure we would have seen quite the same level of aggressiveness in breaking with the past if Pioli had stayed on.

 

[pats1]

The Pats did very well with Leigh Bodden and Brandon McGowan. Chris Baker looked like a star in the preseason and has been a team player - but we don't seem to have used him. Fred Taylor seemed like a great pickup, in spite of his injury. He could be a factor if we make the playoffs. Clearly there were some major misses such as Joey Galloway and Shawn Springs, but we've had major misses with Pioli too, such as Monte Beisel, Chad Brown, Jason Webster, Fernando Bryant and Victor Hobson.

I do think that BB has missed Pioli a lot this season - more as a foil and someone to bounce ideas off of on a daily basis and someone whose judgment he respected than in terms of the actual personnel moves. I think Pioli was a bit of a restraining influence on BB. I'm not sure we would have seen quite the same level of aggressiveness in breaking with the past if Pioli had stayed on.

Don't forget Alex Smith, Michael Matthews, Derrick Burgess, and Greg Lewis (Galloway and him were supposed to be the #3-#4 receivers). Also don't forget TBC on the plus side.

 

[mayoclinic]

Don't forget Alex Smith, Michael Matthews, Derrick Burgess, and Greg Lewis (Galloway and him were supposed to be the #3-#4 receivers). Also don't forget TBC on the plus side.

Thanks for the reminders, good and bad. Though I still think we didn't give Matthews (and possibly Greg Lewis) enough of a chance. Burgess, Galloway, Springs and Alex Smith were all major disappointments.

 

[pats1]

Thanks for the reminders, good and bad. Though I still think we didn't give Matthews (and possibly Greg Lewis) enough of a chance. Burgess, Galloway, Springs and Alex Smith were all major disappointments.

Clearly there was less patience with underperforming players this year than in years past. In 2005, we saw Brown and Beisel underperform for many weeks until eventually Bruschi got back and Vrabel moved inside. Even then, both players stayed around until the end of the season, even with Beisel blowing up at the media in late October/November ("I'm a PR guy too!"). This year, if you didn't cut it, then you got cut.

 

[mayoclinic]

Clearly there was less patience with underperforming players this year than in years past. In 2005, we saw Brown and Beisel underperform for many weeks until eventually Bruschi got back and Vrabel moved inside. Even then, both players stayed around until the end of the season, even with Beisel blowing up at the media in late October/November. This year, if you didn't cut it, then you got cut.

I think some of that is the Pioli influence I was alluding to earlier in this thread. I have no problem with cutting Joey Galloway. I was a bit surprised by the Greg Lewis cut, because we supposedly signed him on account of how he always killed us when we played the Eagles, so I thought we would have given him more time than the preseason to learn the offense and try and get in sync.

 

[SVN]

Also the trade of David thomas.Not a major player but never given enough chances i felt.

 

[pats1]

I think some of that is the Pioli influence I was alluding to earlier in this thread. I have no problem with cutting Joey Galloway. I was a bit surprised by the Greg Lewis cut, because we supposedly signed him on account of how he always killed us when we played the Eagles, so I thought we would have given him more time than the preseason to learn the offense and try and get in sync.

I remember reading somewhere that supposedly Pioli was known for keeping BB in check, because otherwise BB has a tendency to pull the trigger quickly, be it a trade, release, or signing.

 

[mayoclinic]

I remember reading somewhere that supposedly Pioli was known for keeping BB in check, because otherwise BB has as tendency to pull the trigger quickly, be it a trade, release, or signing.

I imagine Richard Seymour is laughing about all of this.

 

[fester]

I imagine Richard Seymour is laughing about all of this.

He is stuck on the Raiders, and despite having a good game v. the Steelers, it is still the Black Hole of NFL Careers unless the Pats will trade back for him next year....

 

[mgteich]

Seymour is a free agent. He's not coming back to the patriots.

He is stuck on the Raiders, and despite having a good game v. the Steelers, it is still the Black Hole of NFL Careers unless the Pats will trade back for him next year....

 

[BelichickFan]

I can name the number of (who I see as) certain returnees on one hand :

Brady.
Welker.
Mayo.
Meriweather.
And the rookies from this year whose story is yet to be told.

Other than that, all bets are off IMO.

 

[mgteich]

How many roster replacements were there this year? 20? more? Sure, there will be changes, and always that will include veterans with time left on their contracts.

 

[Deus Irae]

He is stuck on the Raiders, and despite having a good game v. the Steelers, it is still the Black Hole of NFL Careers unless the Pats will trade back for him next year....

While Seymour is currently in Oakland and not on a sure fire playoff team, I'm sure that schadenfreude has offered him a lot of comfort as this season has gone on, particularly since the Raiders are now playing better football. Next year, he'll either be paid an obscene amount of money to play football in Oakland or he'll be a free agent capable of choosing from several teams that, as of now, won't have to worry about a salary cap.

 

[rabthepat]

Hmmmmmmm...Ancient Chinese Secret: "In order to change the Dynasty one must first change the Emperor." :singing::singing::singing:

 

[mgteich]

I find it somewhat amusing to hear folks think that Seymour is in a terrible position and should be terribly unhappy. He is enjoying this and will enjopy even more cashing his 2010 bonus and paychecks.

While Seymour is currently in Oakland and not on a sure fire playoff team, I'm sure that schadenfreude has offered him a lot of comfort as this season has gone on, particularly since the Raiders are now playing better football. Next year, he'll either be paid an obscene amount of money to play football in Oakland or he'll be a free agent capable of choosing from several teams that, as of now, won't have to worry about a salary cap.

 

[Patspsycho]

There is a lot of overreaction in this thread.

I think Burgess and AD are gone, and that's pretty much about it, maybe one more player.

EDIT: I speak of the defense.. no idea about offense, but no more than the usual suspects.