Good news for the Pats if there is an uncapped year

[Rob0729]

There is no reason to believe that Kraft will spend any more money on players with or without a new CBA.

I do agree that it is better than even money that there will be a new agreement and a 2010 salary cap (and a team minimum and revenue sharing). The players need to understand that in total the players would likely receive LESS money if there is no salary cap. Many teams would not spend the current minimum. In the absense of revenues sharing, some others would spend above the current minimum, but probably less than before. I'm sure some teams would spend more with no cap.

And there is no reason not to believe. Actually there is more reason to believe that he will because Kraft has stated publically that an uncapped year gives the Pats a big advantage and intimated that he would spend money if there is no cap. Kraft has never been afraid to spend money and the Pats' yearly payroll is usually among the highest in the league. I am talking real dollars and not cap dollars.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Another note based on this season:
Under an uncapped year, no penalty to releasing players like Adalius Thomas.

He has a $13mm unamortized signing bonus remaining (including 2009). But it is sunk money, already spent. Under an uncapped season, no cost to releasing him, and the team saves $5mm in 2010 and $6mm in 2011. That could be money better spent elsewhere.

An understatement if ever there was one ... too bad we can't sue him for robbery.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Another note based on this season:
Under an uncapped year, no penalty to releasing players like Adalius Thomas.

He has a $13mm unamortized signing bonus remaining (including 2009). But it is sunk money, already spent. Under an uncapped season, no cost to releasing him, and the team saves $5mm in 2010 and $6mm in 2011. That could be money better spent elsewhere.

Ding Ding................ I could think of few more contracts or exstensions that we could dump (given thier play this year). I think Gost and Mankins will fine and we'll pony up what we need to for them.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

And there is no reason not to believe. Actually there is more reason to believe that he will because Kraft has stated publically that an uncapped year gives the Pats a big advantage and intimated that he would spend money if there is no cap. Kraft has never been afraid to spend money and the Pats' yearly payroll is usually among the highest in the league. I am talking real dollars and not cap dollars.

No, he has not intimated anything of the sort. Talking real or cap dollars Kraft has been conservative and measured in his contract dealings since the day BB arrived. Even Drew's deal was not a cap killer like some of the pre BB deals. That's why they could trade him just a year in, he only got $10M in SB. Kraft will not overpay for talent and he won't make the league's restrained position look foolish. He's spent cash over cap intermittently, not consistently, unlike Snyder or Jones who consistently abused that loophole to compensate for previous mistakes by making new ones. What he has stated is the team owners as a collective are not afraid of a an uncapped season and they basically welcome the opportunity it presents to prove to players that the cap is the way to go...

Is he willing to take limited advantage of some opportunities an uncapped year would present - absolutely, as any smart business man would. But at the same time he's not going to scrap the financial underpinning of this system which is value. And he's not been immune to the economic downturn the League almost couldn't have scripted better for a labor negotiation...although many of his peers have taken bigger hits because they weren't quite as financially savvy. Still with a retail component trying to establish itself in a down economy he isn't nearly as flush as some here dream and he's still paying off far more debt than most ownerships.

He's also starting to lose ground in the revenue game as bigger, newer stadiums come on line. They have much larger capacity than Gillette, although for the time being they may struggle with things like PSL's and naming rights and any splits in non football revenues in this economy that would otherwise maximize their revenue stream. If additional new stadiums are built in California and Minnesota over the next couple of seasons he will likely fall out of the top 5 revenue teams.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

No, he has not intimated anything of the sort. Talking real or cap dollars Kraft has been conservative and measured in his contract dealings since the day BB arrived. Even Drew's deal was not a cap killer like some of the pre BB deals. That's why they could trade him just a year in, he only got $10M in SB. Kraft will not overpay for talent and he won't make the league's restrained position look foolish. He's spent cash over cap intermittently, not consistently, unlike Snyder or Jones who consistently abused that loophole to compensate for previous mistakes by making new ones. What he has stated is the team owners as a collective are not afraid of a an uncapped season and they basically welcome the opportunity it presents to prove to players that the cap is the way to go...

Is he willing to take limited advantage of some opportunities an uncapped year would present - absolutely, as any smart business man would. But at the same time he's not going to scrap the financial underpinning of this system which is value. And he's not been immune to the economic downturn the League almost couldn't have scripted better for a labor negotiation...although many of his peers have taken bigger hits because they weren't quite as financially savvy. Still with a retail component trying to establish itself in a down economy he isn't nearly as flush as some here dream and he's still paying off far more debt than most ownerships.

He's also starting to lose ground in the revenue game as bigger, newer stadiums come on line. They have much larger capacity than Gillette, although for the time being they may struggle with things like PSL's and naming rights and any splits in non football revenues in this economy that would otherwise maximize their revenue stream. If additional new stadiums are built in California and Minnesota over the next couple of seasons he will likely fall out of the top 5 revenue teams.

I think you're right on his business philosophy but low ball the guy's overall net worth by quite a bit. People forget this guy has multiple business interests beyond the Patriots under the umbrella of the Kraft Group, namely International Forest Products and Rand Whitney that are multi billion dollar companies when it comes to annual sales. If you factor in those interests he's as loaded as just about any owner in the league west of Seattle (Paul Allen) and Snyder. Forbes had him at 1.1 billion in net worth as recently as 2007-08. Also, unlike Jerry Jones, his entire net worth isn't solely found in the football team he owns. Jones sold his oil and gas business when he bought the Cowboys. Jones has everything in one basket, profitable as that basket may be. And the stadium is owned by the city of Arlington. The good news for Jerry is he doesn't have the debt of the stadium, but at the same time, we have no idea how much debt Kraft has on the Razor because it's a privately held company that doesn't have to make those disclosures.

 

[patsfan-1982]

it dose not sound like a uncapped year is good for the players at all

all of the old player that where sick will not get help any more

there will be 2 tags to put on players and the deeper you make it in the playoffs the less players you can sign from other clubs if you loose in the first round of the playoffs you can only sign as many players as you loose


bob kraft will just get richer the team wont get any better

in a uncapped year it will come down to what team can draft the best cause there will not be a lot of FA going from team to team

 

[Snarf]

What a bunch of BS. The Red Sox are the same way as the Yankees. If the Pats don't use every advantage they have to win, they don't deserve to.

Frankly I don't see us making any major moves in the offseason. Kraft and Belichick have proven they are too cheap to spend the big bucks like Snyder or Jerry Jones. I think they'll continue to be frugal and hope they can re-build the team through the draft. I hope they get someone who has leadership ability, the kind of person who "knows what to do" in any given situation, because the defense really, really needs it.

Huh? Where did I say that the Red Sox weren't also unfairly stacked?

They are. The Red Sox are just as bad. Why the hell did you leap to the conclusion that I was a Red Sox fan?

Instead of making stupid assumptions, how about actually reading what I wrote. What I wrote is that it's far more enjoyable to win when there is an even playing field. It means more.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Reading this post of how next year will be like the MLB.

Where do we rank $$$ wise? It has to be near the top with 100 consecutive sellouts, patriots place, insane prices, etc.

1. Redskins
2. Cowboys
3. ????
4. ????
5. ????

 

[jmt57]

Getting back to whether or not Kraft would spend a lot of money (i.e., try to buy a championship), I would say he probably would not. I seem to recall him looking into ownership of a soccer team in Europe a while back and he said he would do that only if there was a salary cap; and as I recall he went on to say that he never would have purchased the Pats if the NFL did not have a salary cap. With that in mind, I don't foresee any reckless spending on his part in an uncapped year.

 

[Rob0729]

No, he has not intimated anything of the sort. Talking real or cap dollars Kraft has been conservative and measured in his contract dealings since the day BB arrived. Even Drew's deal was not a cap killer like some of the pre BB deals. That's why they could trade him just a year in, he only got $10M in SB. Kraft will not overpay for talent and he won't make the league's restrained position look foolish. He's spent cash over cap intermittently, not consistently, unlike Snyder or Jones who consistently abused that loophole to compensate for previous mistakes by making new ones. What he has stated is the team owners as a collective are not afraid of a an uncapped season and they basically welcome the opportunity it presents to prove to players that the cap is the way to go...

Is he willing to take limited advantage of some opportunities an uncapped year would present - absolutely, as any smart business man would. But at the same time he's not going to scrap the financial underpinning of this system which is value. And he's not been immune to the economic downturn the League almost couldn't have scripted better for a labor negotiation...although many of his peers have taken bigger hits because they weren't quite as financially savvy. Still with a retail component trying to establish itself in a down economy he isn't nearly as flush as some here dream and he's still paying off far more debt than most ownerships.

He's also starting to lose ground in the revenue game as bigger, newer stadiums come on line. They have much larger capacity than Gillette, although for the time being they may struggle with things like PSL's and naming rights and any splits in non football revenues in this economy that would otherwise maximize their revenue stream. If additional new stadiums are built in California and Minnesota over the next couple of seasons he will likely fall out of the top 5 revenue teams.

The biggest myth is that the Pats don't like to spend money. The fact is they do. Look what they are giving Shawn Springs to be a scout player who doesn't dress on Sundays. Springs got a 3 year, $10.5 million deal and even when he was signed he wasn't going to be a guaranteed starter. He is getting $4.55 million in real dollars this year alone.

Or how about Jarvis Green who is getting $5.4 million in real dollars this year even though he wasn't a starter at the time they picked up his $2.3 million option bonus and isn't a full time player now.

The Pats don't pay for many marquee free agents, but they have a long history of paying above average money to great money for seasoned veterans middle tier players. Why? Because it is easier to manipulate the cap and a much lower risk, reward move to pay a guy like Springs who ended up being a bust than paying a guy like Adalius Thomas who also was a bust but cost a lot more towards the cap.

Drew Bledsoe's deal was a blockbuster. There is no way around it. If there was never a Tom Brady, the guy probably would have gotten every penny of the deal. Luckily Belichick was never sold on Bledsoe and he and Pioli created a deal that gave them outs if he failed. It wasn't that the Pats weren't willing to pay Bledsoe (in fact, the rumor is Kraft forced Belichick to give him the deal eventhough Belichick wasn't sold on the guy), it was that Belichick wasn't sold on the guy as their QB and wanted an out. Let's not forget Belichick gave Lawyer Milloy that blockbuster, uncap friendly deal in 2000 and had to cut him for cap reasons three years later.

Also, building new stadiums in this economy is not the bonaza it was 5-10 years ago. As you stated, the Cowboys can't find anyone to pay for the naming rights for their new stadium. The Jets and Giants are charging exorbetant PSLs just to cover their debt and they are having trouble covering their debt right now. The Patriots built their stadium for $300 million. Jerry Jones built his for a billion. The new stadium in the Meadowlands is even more expensive.

As for other teams building stadiums, there are only two teams who will have a new stadium next year in the uncapped year (both share the same stadium in the Meadowlands). Next year is the only year that matters because after next year, there is no football without a CBA. I don't care about Los Angeles, Toronto, San Antonio, Mexico City, etc. because this discussion is next year and next year alone and there won't be those new stadiums.

The fact of the matter is that probably about a third of the teams will be dropping what they pay players in an uncapped year, possibly more. Most will not go crazy and few will pay significantly more than they would in a capped year because of the economy. The Pats won't go crazy like the Redskins probably will, but they are definitely a have team and Kraft knows that with smart signings and opening up his wallet a little bit could net this team another Super Bowl which would easily offset the costs of increasing the payroll to build a championships.

I never said this team would be the NY Yankees. I don't think any team will except for maybe the Redskins and Cowboys. The Pats could be the equivelent of a next teir team where they spend more than most, but not to the crazy levels of the top teams.

 

[Rob0729]

Reading this post of how next year will be like the MLB.

Where do we rank $$$ wise? It has to be near the top with 100 consecutive sellouts, patriots place, insane prices, etc.

1. Redskins
2. Cowboys
3. ????
4. ????
5. ????

According to Forbes, the Pats are still the second most profitable team behind the Redskins with an operating income of $71 million. That doesn't include Patriot Place since that is a non-football entity.