D giving up 2 + more points per game than SB D in '04??

[cmasspatsfan]

Because it shows that it's just the norm to play alot of bad offenses, so why just hold it against THIS defense only? Go back and look at the QB's/offenses the 2004 team played and you can formulate a list similar to the one you posted. It's a senseless point/list when both defenses have faced some crap QB's.

Agreed, in fact if we looked into it we may find that the offenses as a whole that we faced this year are better than in 2004.

 

[patriots pam]

Interesting, but I definitely don't think the numbers tell the true story, particularly in comparison to the '04 D. Although, call me crazy, but I'm getting as much, even a little more, than what I expected from the D this year taking into consideration the turnover and youth/inexperience of many of the players. I'm not getting what I expected from the O at this point, particularly in the 2nd half and the two minute drills. With the all the skill and experience on the O, I expected that they would have to, and would be able to, compensate at least adequately for weaknesses in the new D until they could really hold their own. Not so much, it seems. :shrug:

EDIT: That said...I still have faith in them winning the last four and snapping out of this funk to be strong in the playoffs. Maybe that's the crazy thinking on my part? WORK IT OUT, GUYS!!

 

[Deus Irae]

Because it shows that it's just the norm to play alot of bad offenses, so why just hold it against THIS defense only? Go back and look at the QB's/offenses the 2004 team played and you can formulate a list similar to the one you posted. It's a senseless point/list when both defenses have faced some crap QB's.

This has been an extremely poor bunch of offenses, that's why.

 

[Lockdown06]

This has been an extremely poor bunch of offenses, that's why.

By the end of the season, the 2004 team's strength of schedule was 17th of strength of schedule - not the easiest, but certainly not extremely hard.

I don't know what the numbers are now, but the start the 09 season, we had the 3rd hardest strength of schedule this year.

Both the offense and the defense have underwhelmed this year, I just think that relative to expectations, the offense is the bigger culprit

 

[12to81]

The big difference in that year is that we actually got the job done when it mattered, and finished the job.

 

[DougFlutie]

Going into the Patriots game the Dolphins were giving up 25 points per game.

The explosive Patriots offense scored 0 points in the last 27 minutes, for a total of 22 points against this Dolphins team.

 

[Lockdown06]

The big difference in that year is that we actually got the job done when it mattered, and finished the job.

I agree with you, I think the 2004 team was incredible, and probably my favorite pats team of this decade, I'm just pointing out some of the teams they had to face.

Also, while it is certainly looking bleak, I'm not counting this year's version of the pats out of it til they've mathematically eliminated themselves. Crazier things have happened than this talented but erratic team pulling themselves together and making some noise in a month

 

[Deus Irae]

Both the offense and the defense have underwhelmed this year, I just think that relative to expectations, the offense is the bigger culprit

I completely agree with this, based largely upon the offense's struggles within the opponents' red zone, and putting in the "What did you really expect from Brady?" asterisk, but that's not what the head-in-the-sand crowd is trying to claim. They're actually trying to claim that this defense is a good or average defense when it's neither.

I love statistics, but they have to be looked at in context.

 

[DougFlutie]

I completely agree with this, based largely upon the offense's struggles within the opponents' red zone, and putting in the "What did you really expect from Brady?" asterisk, but that's not what the head-in-the-sand crowd is trying to claim. They're actually trying to claim that this defense is a good or average defense when it's neither.

I love statistics, but they have to be looked at in context.

Looking at both units in context, both are top 5 in terms of points scored or points against. Yet both are horrible in the red zone. This suggests coordinator problems on both sides of the ball, and that the talent is actually very good.

 

[Deus Irae]

Looking at both units in context, both are top 5 in terms of points scored or points against. Yet both are horrible in the red zone. This suggests coordinator problems on both sides of the ball, and that the talent is actually very good.

No, Maverick, it doesn't suggest that at all.

 

[Lockdown06]

I completely agree with this, based largely upon the offense's struggles within the opponents' red zone, and putting in the "What did you really expect from Brady?" asterisk, but that's not what the head-in-the-sand crowd is trying to claim. They're actually trying to claim that this defense is a good or average defense when it's neither.

I love statistics, but they have to be looked at in context.

Yeah, I guess I'm just irritated that this board seems to express extremes, either the defense is all-pro or it's a complete disaster, BB is either a genius or totally incompetent, brady is either washed up or just biding his time.

The reality is, we're have a mediocre season - our offense does some things great and other things terribly. We have some young playmakers on defense but at this point, they're a defense that isn't going to win us a game, they'll just keep us in it.

I think some of our struggles were masked early on by the turnovers we were causing - forcing that fumble against the bills comes to mind, but over a season, those kinds of fortuitous plays can't be expected all the time, whereas solid tackling and lack of mental mistakes (not the strengths of this season's defense) would be more reliable

 

[Laurence Maroney's Dreads]

People really need to stop using PPG as a useful barometer on how good defenses are. I'm sure some stat geeks out there (I say that lovingly) will be able to calculate some sort of a "shutdown factor" or something when it comes to defensive play.

I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but if you remember, the 2006 Patriots set all kinds of franchise PPG records. After the season, though, all people talked about was how old and slow the defense was, and Belichick began a massive overhaul of the defense, drafting Meriweather with their 1st round pick and throwing big money at Adalius Thomas. PPG is just a useless stat nowadays, much like BA has been proven to be in baseball.

 

[Deus Irae]

People really need to stop using PPG as a useful barometer on how good defenses are. I'm sure some stat geeks out there (I say that lovingly) will be able to calculate some sort of a "shutdown factor" or something when it comes to defensive play.

I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but if you remember, the 2006 Patriots set all kinds of franchise PPG records. After the season, though, all people talked about was how old and slow the defense was, and Belichick began a massive overhaul of the defense, drafting Meriweather with their 1st round pick and throwing big money at Adalius Thomas. PPG is just a useless stat nowadays, much like BA has been proven to be in baseball.

Yes, PPG is an excellent stat, but it needs context. For example, prior to this season, the Patriots had lost ONE game in eight years when they had the lead at the half. This year, they've already lost four of those games. So, we're seeing a defense that can't hold a lead. Why is that?

Can't even pressure the QB, nevermind get to him
Can't cover on the outside without safety help, which leads to.....
Softer than it should be over the deep middle
Doesn't have linebackers that are great in coverage


In other words, it's a very weak team against the pass, and less than average against the run. But, instead of people admitting to the weaknesses of the team and, especially, of the personnel, people are either blaming the coordinator or actually claiming the defense is good. It's homerism gone wild.

 

[DougFlutie]

Yes, PPG is an excellent stat, but it needs context. For example, prior to this season, the Patriots had lost ONE game in eight years when they had the lead at the half. This year, they've already lost four of those games. So, we're seeing a defense that can't hold a lead. Why is that?

Why do you keep throwing the defense under the bus, when the offense is averaging barely over 3 points in the 2nd half of the 5 losses.

You keep assuming the offense is the reason for the wins, but it is just as much if not more responsible for its losses this year.

 

[Deus Irae]

Why do you keep throwing the defense under the bus, when the offense is averaging barely over 3 points in the 2nd half of the 5 losses.

You keep assuming the offense is the reason for the wins, but it is just as if not more responsible for its losses this year.

Since you couldn't take your banning and accept it, Maverick, I'm just putting you on ignore under your current screen name. Hopefully the Mods and Ian will solve the problem of you circumventing the ban in the near future.

 

[DougFlutie]

If a poster like "DeusIrae" is considered an "All Pro" poster, what does that say about this forum?

From what I can tell, this poster acts hostile and antagonistic to any individuals who disagree with him/her.

Perhaps PatriotsPlanet is a better place to find intelligent football discussion.

 

[mgteich]

Please compare for the 8 years vs 2009 in games where we had a halftime lead
How many points did the offense average during the second half?

To be more blunt: what a crock of s***! The team is leading at halftime and it is the defense's responsibility to shut out nthe opponent's offense! In the five games we've lost, the offense has averaged 3.5 points!

Yes, PPG is an excellent stat, but it needs context. For example, prior to this season, the Patriots had lost ONE game in eight years when they had the lead at the half. This year, they've already lost four of those games. So, we're seeing a defense that can't hold a lead. Why is that?

Can't even pressure the QB, nevermind get to him
Can't cover on the outside without safety help, which leads to.....
Softer than it should be over the deep middle
Doesn't have linebackers that are great in coverage


In other words, it's a very weak team against the pass, and less than average against the run. But, instead of people admitting to the weaknesses of the team and, especially, of the personnel, people are either blaming the coordinator or actually claiming the defense is good. It's homerism gone wild.

 

[Deus Irae]

Please compare for the 8 years vs 2009 in games where we had a halftime lead
How many points did the offense average during the second half?

To be more blunt: what a crock of s***! The team is leading at halftime and it is the defense's responsibility to shut out nthe opponent's offense! In the five games we've lost, the offense has averaged 3.5 points!

So it was the Patriots 'offense allowing the Dolphins, without their 2 best players (Brown and Pennington) to rack up those yards and score those points?

My mistake. I didn't realize that Brady had started being a two way player.

 

[mgteich]

As I said, the offense is so aweful that the defense needs to suck it up a shut out the opponents in the second half.

So it was the Patriots 'offense allowing the Dolphins, without their 2 best players (Brown and Pennington) to rack up those yards and score those points?

My mistake. I didn't realize that Brady had started being a two way player.

 

[Deus Irae]

As I said, the offense is so aweful that the defense needs to suck it up a shut out the opponents in the second half.

The defense is so awful that the offense can't afford to score under 30 points in any game to be safe, even if the defense is facing stiffs like Sanchez and Henne.

That sort of thing goes both ways. Neither the offense nor the defense is getting it done.