Why keep Asante in 2007 but trade Seymour this year?

[ctpatsfan77]

This is meant neither to condemn nor to praise, but simply to analyze.

In 2007, the Patriots apparently decided that keeping Asante and paying him the franchise salary was worth the difference between the 2009 third-round compensatory pick they got for him and whatever additional compensation they might have gotten by trading him.

In 2009, despite having spent a third-round draft pick and more on Derrick Burgess, the Patriots traded away Seymour for a first-round draft pick in 2011. If we use the above logic, the Patriots saw more benefit in getting that first-rounder than they did in Seymour's potential contributions in 2009 (and the possibility that they might get a comp pick in 2011).

So: why the different outlooks?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Honestly? Looking at the talent that we have on the field, Belichick might have known that we weren't good enough to go all the way with or without Seymour. That's the only thing that I can think of.

 

[BelichickFan]

Honestly? Looking at the talent that we have on the field, Belichick might have known that we weren't good enough to go all the way with or without Seymour. That's the only thing that I can think of.

If so I don't know why they pay a #3 for a UFA to be in Burgess.

 

[unoriginal]

Probably evaluations of defensive line and cornerback depth.

 

[pats1]

Honestly? Looking at the talent that we have on the field, Belichick might have known that we weren't good enough to go all the way with or without Seymour. That's the only thing that I can think of.

Right. I think BB knew they had something special in 2007 and wanted to keep things together. When he traded Seymour, he knew he didn't have a 2007-caliber team and was looking towards building one in 2010-12. Not trading Samuel probably hurt the 2008-09 teams.

 

[upstater1]

Was one of the league's 3 worst teams paying a #1 for Asante?

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

My guess is BB felt we needed Asante alot more for '07 than we needed Seymour this year. Plenty depth at DE.

 

[JFK]

This is meant neither to condemn nor to praise, but simply to analyze.

In 2007, the Patriots apparently decided that keeping Asante and paying him the franchise salary was worth the difference between the 2009 third-round compensatory pick they got for him and whatever additional compensation they might have gotten by trading him.

In 2009, despite having spent a third-round draft pick and more on Derrick Burgess, the Patriots traded away Seymour for a first-round draft pick in 2011. If we use the above logic, the Patriots saw more benefit in getting that first-rounder than they did in Seymour's potential contributions in 2009 (and the possibility that they might get a comp pick in 2011).

So: why the different outlooks?

Franchise Seymour and you probably won't have money for Wilfork and Mankins. He traded him because we would have lost either Seymour or Wilfork at the end. Instead he got #1 in 2011 for him...It makes sense to me.
GOD I MISS ASANTE...He is one of the best in the NFL and we let him go. I think he is giving the Eagles value for their $$

 

[BradyFTW!]

If so I don't know why they pay a #3 for a UFA to be in Burgess.

Good point- I really dunno. I hated the Seymour trade when it happened, but I thought the Pats were good enough to go somewhere this year. Although, considering how many close losses we've had, I do think that we'd be sitting at 9-3 or 10-2 if we had Seymour, but it wouldn't surprise me if that's not how Belichick saw it

 

[eagle eye]

I started a thread about Seymour earlier but it disappeared.

Anyways, I personally think that short term the trade of Seymour is the worst mistake BB has ever made. Maybe long term it will work out but this season its been so evident how much poorer the DL is without him. I considered us one of the top three lines in the league, this year I don't know, we are nowhere near the top 10 imo.

 

[BelichickFan]

Good point- I really dunno. I hated the Seymour trade when it happened, but I thought the Pats were good enough to go somewhere this year. Although, considering how many close losses we've had, I do think that we'd be sitting at 9-3 or 10-2 if we had Seymour, but it wouldn't surprise me if that's not how Belichick saw it

I wish they hadn't dumped that pick for Burgess but I think the writing's on the wall that Vince gets Franchised and Traded and we use these next two drafts to totally rebuild a team that's looking like it needs it.

 

[JFK]

I wish they hadn't dumped that pick for Burgess but I think the writing's on the wall that Vince gets Franchised and Traded and we use these next two drafts to totally rebuild a team that's looking like it needs it.

Trade Vince and get who?

 

[BelichickFan]

Trade Vince and get who?

You've disagreed with this before - I get it - it will be for good draft choices. I know you don't like that but that's how I see it. They'll pay, say. Rolando McClain $1.5M as a #1 pick instead of paying Vince $10M.

 

[The Intimidator]

Honestly? Looking at the talent that we have on the field, Belichick might have known that we weren't good enough to go all the way with or without Seymour. That's the only thing that I can think of.

It makes you think right now. How much better would be with Seymour? It would improve our defense a little, but this defense wasn't all that much better with him. I honestly think the Patriots are going through a rebuilding phase on the defensive side of the ball. There is no reason if they thought they would be able to be a good defensive unit, I dont think they would have traded him. They didn't make a huge effort in free agency and re tooled in the draft. I think we will do the same this draft and I certainly hope we can get an affective pass rusher in free agency. We gotta call it like it is, this is an average team right now.

 

[JFK]

You've disagreed with this before - I get it - it will be for good draft choices. I know you don't like that but that's how I see it. They'll pay, say. Rolando McClain $1.5M as a #1 pick instead of paying Vince $10M.

Then who plays NT? We cant let Vince go and not replace him.

 

[BelichickFan]

Then who plays NT? We cant let Vince go and not replace him.

There's a ton of big bodies out there - not as good as Vince but decent players. I'm not arguing whether they SHOULD do it, I'm saying I think they WILL do it.

 

[BradyFTW!]

It makes you think right now. How much better would be with Seymour? It would improve our defense a little, but this defense wasn't all that much better with him. I honestly think the Patriots are going through a rebuilding phase on the defensive side of the ball. There is no reason if they thought they would be able to be a good defensive unit, I dont think they would have traded him. They didn't make a huge effort in free agency and re tooled in the draft. I think we will do the same this draft and I certainly hope we can get an affective pass rusher in free agency. We gotta call it like it is, this is an average team right now.

The difference is when you consider how many of our losses have been close games where we were leading in the fourth quarter. In games like that, one more stop can mean victory, and if you look at the guys who are taking Seymour's snaps- Wright, Green, Pryor, etc.- he's far, far better than any of them. IMO we have at least 2 more wins with Seymour, maybe more. Not necessarily because he'd made our defense *way* better (though I'm not convinced that he wouldn't), but because our losses have been so close. New Orleans was the only loss that couldn't have been swung on one play.

 

[The Intimidator]

Trade Vince and get who?

Replace him with who? Wilfork is probably the #2 NT in football and was an all pro last year. Even with him being double and triple blocked, he is still one of the more highly productive Nose Tackles in the game. He isn't the problem at all. I dont want to see Ron Brace replace him. We need an elite edge rusher, not to get rid of our best defensive player.

 

[Deus Irae]

This is meant neither to condemn nor to praise, but simply to analyze.

In 2007, the Patriots apparently decided that keeping Asante and paying him the franchise salary was worth the difference between the 2009 third-round compensatory pick they got for him and whatever additional compensation they might have gotten by trading him.

In 2009, despite having spent a third-round draft pick and more on Derrick Burgess, the Patriots traded away Seymour for a first-round draft pick in 2011. If we use the above logic, the Patriots saw more benefit in getting that first-rounder than they did in Seymour's potential contributions in 2009 (and the possibility that they might get a comp pick in 2011).

So: why the different outlooks?

It was a bad decision to trade Seymour. Perhaps Pioli might have been able to keep Belichick from making some of the many poor decisions he's made in the past year. Instead, the team's giving up 3rds and 5ths for Burgess while giving Hobbs away for a pair of 5ths, and foolishly weakening the strongest part of the defense for a pick years down the road.

 

[JFK]

Replace him with who? Wilfork is probably the #2 NT in football and was an all pro last year. Even with him being double and triple blocked, he is still one of the more highly productive Nose Tackles in the game. He isn't the problem at all. I dont want to see Ron Brace replace him. We need an elite edge rusher, not to get rid of our best defensive player.

You didn't disagree with me.