Reiss: Patriots most shotgun-heavy team in league

[maverick4]

They are #1 and #2 in passing. The Pats are 7-4 and the Colts are 11-0. It isn't like either team are struggling. .

The Pats pass for a ton of yards, are near bottom in the league in red zone offense, can't win on the road, and have pathetic 2nd half performances/stats... sounds perfect for Rob0709!!!

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[Rob0729]

Wow, you honestly think we win because of shotgun? We pile up yards and become the Cleveland Browns in the red zone. This team would have just as many wins without shotgun and with Brady under center.

Also, why did you lie before today and pretend that every win or loss is a team effort?

Based on the above you clearly think this offense solely wins games for this team, and give ZERO blame on the offense when it clearly loses games. You can't even admit that the Patriots offense lost the Colts game when Belichick put the game in its hands and it failed to convert. You clearly would have said the offense won the game if they converted.

Rob0709 has a little trick where any Patriots loss is never the offense's fault, because any loss had the last meaningful points given up the defense. To him the defense is always at fault, the offense is never to blame.

Rob0709 is the most irrationally biased poster here when it comes to offense.

DId you leave? That is the only way I could get that honor. I didn't start or reserrect a dozen threads about the offense today like you did.

Again, you are too slow to comprehend the subtiles of an argument. The fact is the Pats are 4th in scoring. The fact is the Pats and Colts are a combined 18-4. It isn't all about the offense, but the offense plays a role in it.

I have problems with the play calling in the red zone, but is isn't because they are in the shotgun. They have called a lot of stupid running plays near the goalline too. You can have issues with the play selection and not blame the shotgun. When Maroney fumbles on the Colts' one yard line, is that the shotgun's fault? There are times they shouldn't use the shotgun, but that has to do with many of O'Brien's growing pains in learning situational football. But I don't have problems with the shotgun itself. Brady himself says it helps him read the defenses.

Seriously how are you? Fourteen? Fifteen?

 

[mayoclinic]

Reis is just showing that the Pats again are ahead of the curve. The shotgun is clearly becoming a base offensive formation. Both Brady and Manning are in the shotgun over 70% of the time. It shows everyone wants to copy the Pats.

Are you being serious?

 

[Rob0729]

The Pats pass for a ton of yards, are near bottom in the league in red zone offense, can't win on the road, and have pathetic 2nd half performances/stats... sounds perfect for Rob0709!!!

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Red zone offense. That is a sexy stat. Second half performance stat?!? Did you mention a stat? Hypocrite! You are just like a Colts fan talking about stats.

 

[HarkDawg]

Our RED ZONE Offense sucks....... that is no secret.


We have been running the ball more frequently.... just not changing schemes in which we should some timess.


A shotgun run leaves possibilities open. PPL will be guessing.... and if they Guess wrong we capitalize with a complete pass or a beneficial run.



I could go on forever...... but If we plan on Running the ball on a consistent basis.... we should at least choose the appropriate formation for it. It will give a different look...... and hey why not even block for Phony Maroney if we plan on running the football?


I am all for a "MIX UP"...... but still love the Shotty formation and its benefits.

Shotty should not happen 65-80% of the time like we consistently do it. It is time for change and a new dimension.

 

[Rob0729]

Are you being serious?

I am jabbing maverick, but I think the harping about the overreliance of the shotgun is stupid. The league is moving in that direction. The trend has been that the shotgun by most teams is getting used more and more. The Colts are 11-0 using the shotgun just as much as the Pats.

I don't have a problem saying that the play calling has been shoddy at times (because it has), but the use of the shotgun (except in certain situations) is not the reason for it.

 

[maverick4]

Red zone offense. That is a sexy stat. Second half performance stat?!? Did you mention a stat? Hypocrite! You are just like a Colts fan talking about stats.

Red zone and 2nd half stats are meaningful. Passing yardage doesn't mean jack, it is a "sexy" stat.

Very telling that you think this team doesn't have any struggles/issues because they lead the league in passing yardage (Rob0709 post #18).

 

[HarkDawg]

I am jabbing maverick, but I think the harping about the overreliance of the shotgun is stupid. The league is moving in that direction. The trend has been that the shotgun by most teams is getting used more and more. The Colts are 11-0 using the shotgun just as much as the Pats.

I don't have a problem saying that the play calling has been shoddy at times (because it has), but the use of the shotgun (except in certain situations) is not the reason for it.

Do you have me on ignore???? I think my intuition on this subject is very valuable and I have received no feedback....

 

[ausbacker]

Are you being serious?

There's a degree of truth to this mayo. For the past 3 seasons, about an 8% increase per year in teams passing from the shotgun has been observed. I think it's sitting at 54 or 56%. Since the Pats went ballistic with the spread offense adapted from Urban Meyer in 2007, how many offenses have tried to emulate that? Even Pittsburgh, who have been a historically run first term now has a competent QB who is throwing for massive yards now.

At the end of the day, I have zero problems with the shotgun and as Rob has rightfully pointed out, the issue lies at the heart of O'Brien learning on the job in play-calling. It leaves most of us scratching our heads, but if you had Brady as your quarterback, I'd hazard a thought it would be difficult not to continually fall back on him in your rookie offensive coordinator season.

 

[maverick4]

I have problems with the play calling in the red zone, but is isn't because they are in the shotgun.

Red zone issues specifically highlight the play calling issue and use of shotgun. These issues are linked. This team ramps up the shotgun predictability when in the red zone. Not only is it mind boggling since it completely removes the threat of run, but the opposing D has to cover less space for a slow developing passing game. If the team kept Brady under center more the red zone O would improve.


By the way mayoclinic, he wasn't joking or 'jabbing'. He really means it.

 

[maverick4]

There's a degree of truth to this mayo. For the past 3 seasons, about an 8% increase per year in teams passing from the shotgun has been observed. I think it's sitting at 54 or 56%. Since the Pats went ballistic with the spread offense adapted from Urban Meyer in 2007, how many offenses have tried to emulate that? Even Pittsburgh, who have been a historically run first term now has a competent QB who is throwing for massive yards now.

At the end of the day, I have zero problems with the shotgun and as Rob has rightfully pointed out

They can't hide it. These guys LOVE the shotgun, think we still haven't run enough of it, don't think it's linked to our struggles (in fact don't even think we have any offensive struggles), and they even think we are ahead of some sort of cutting edge curve with the over-use of shotgun!!

 

[HarkDawg]

There's a degree of truth to this mayo. For the past 3 seasons, about an 8% increase per year in teams passing from the shotgun has been observed. I think it's sitting at 54 or 56%. Since the Pats went ballistic with the spread offense adapted from Urban Meyer in 2007, how many offenses have tried to emulate that? Even Pittsburgh, who have been a historically run first term now has a competent QB who is throwing for massive yards now.

At the end of the day, I have zero problems with the shotgun and as Rob has rightfully pointed out, the issue lies at the heart of O'Brien learning on the job in play-calling. It leaves most of us scratching our heads, but if you had Brady as your quarterback, I'd hazard a thought it would be difficult not to continually fall back on him in your rookie offensive coordinator season.

"Competent QB" is a very undermining statement of Big Ben as a QB..... He is very much so an ELITE QB...... and he is very scary when he is mobile and on the run. He passes w/ great precision on the run and that is SCARY. Brady is getting better with that aspect of his game...... but he is not like a Big Ben while running and then throwing the Football.

 

[ausbacker]

They can't hide it. These guys LOVE the shotgun, think we still haven't run enough of it, don't think it's linked to our struggles (in fact don't even think we have any offensive struggles), and they even think we are ahead of some sort of cutting edge curve with the over-use of shotgun!!

The fact that you chose to selectively edit out three quarters of a posting phrase with something we both agree upon proves just how difficult you are.

 

[Rob0729]

Red zone issues specifically highlight the play calling issue and use of shotgun. These issues are linked. This team ramps up the shotgun predictability when in the red zone. Not only is it mind boggling since it completely removes the threat of run, but the opposing D has to cover less space for a slow developing passing game. If the team kept Brady under center more the red zone O would improve.


By the way mayoclinic, he wasn't joking or 'jabbing'. He really means it. He's only trying to backtrack now because he's starting to realize he sounds crazy.

I don't sound like you at all. If I do someone with a brain, please tell me so I can shoot myself.

I exaggerated it get you going, but yes, teams are copying the Pats' offense and the stats show the use of the shotgun is going up. This is the first year that two teams (ironically with the league's two best QBs) are using the shotgun over 70% of the passing plays. So yes, there are teams trying to incorporate the Pats' offense into their systems. The facts are there.

Yes, at times the shotgun is the problem in the redzone, but there are times the running plays they call in the redzone is the problem. You like to simplify things to their most simpliest hotbutton issue terms and that isn't how football works. O'Brien has to work on his situational football and going away from the shotgun isn't going to change that.

 

[HarkDawg]

Why the lack of FEEDBACK for me on the last few pages...... I put together great info and thoughts.... and I got no love for it.

 

[ausbacker]

"Competent QB" is a very undermining statement of Big Ben as a QB..... He is very much so an ELITE QB...... and he is very scary when he is mobile and on the run. He passes w/ great precision on the run and that is SCARY. Brady is getting better with that aspect of his game...... but he is not like a Big Ben while running and then throwing the Football.

HarkDawg, Big Ben wasn't an elite QB before season 2008. The moment the Steelers observed this transformation from a developing level of competency to complete competency, the offensive keys were handed over were they not?

I agree he is an elite QB, my comment was more directed at his development in being competent enough to dissect defenses and throw from shotgun to great affect.

 

[Rob0729]

Do you have me on ignore???? I think my intuition on this subject is very valuable and I have received no feedback....

Not ignoring you. Must have missed what you said. I did respond to you.

I think there are problems with the play calling at times. I don't think it is neccessarily the shotgun although it may be at times. The offense had very few problems under McDaniels with the shotgun. Brady sees the defense better out of the shotgun.

If you have anything else, please readdress it.

 

[HarkDawg]

HarkDawg, Big Ben wasn't an elite QB before season 2008. The moment the Steelers observed this transformation from a lack of competency to complete competency, the offensive keys were handed over were they not?

I agree he is an elite QB, my comment was more directed at his development in being competent enough to dissect defenses and throw from shotgun to great affect.

Dude.... he is one of the best when he is mobile and truckin w/ that ball....... he throws lasers on the run.


A laser is a straight beam of light btw....... (he is accurate) on the move

 

[maverick4]

I exaggerated it get you going, but yes, teams are copying the Pats' offense and the stats show the use of the shotgun is going up. This is the first year that two teams (ironically with the league's two best QBs) are using the shotgun over 70% of the passing plays. So yes, there are teams trying to incorporate the Pats' offense into their systems. The facts are there.
.

You're not exaggerating at all. You keep backtracking but every time you explain yourself you confirm that you are absolutely in love with the shotgun, wish we used it even more, and think we are leading some sort of cutting edge evolution of the game.

It's just the opposite. It's a fad, like Houston Oilers run-n-shoot, or Bills no-huddle, which just like the Pats offense now can be stopped by any decent D-coordinator. Stop Welker and this team cannot manufacture a win. In the dynasty days we had league-leading-injury-numbers and still kept rolling no matter who was playing and who we played, because we didn't insist on offense a certain way every week.

 

[HarkDawg]

Not ignoring you. Must have missed what you said. I did respond to you.

I think there are problems with the play calling at times. I don't think it is neccessarily the shotgun although it may be at times. The offense had very few problems under McDaniels with the shotgun. Brady sees the defense better out of the shotgun.

If you have anything else, please readdress it.

go back two pages..... I explained my status... when you and MAV were fighting. We are PATRIOTS gentleman....... not enemies.