Looking back at the infamous 4th down and 2 call...

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

You realize Belichick has seen that this defense has absolutely no shot to contain Elite Quarterbacks like Brees and Manning when it comes down to the critical 4th quarter of games and you probably will see more of these gambles in tight 4th quarter situations even against subpar quarterbacks because simply put this defense cannot stop teams in the 4th quarter,there is no leadership and no motivation or emotion on this defense as of now and that certainly comes from the loss of Harrison,Bruschi and Vrable as experienced leadership players who are all gone.

This defense which normally starts to gel as the season progresses is doing a reversal this year,The defense is getting progressively worse as the weeks go on and it is quite concerning.

The only solace I got out of this loss is that I questioned BB going for it on
4th and 2 back 2 weeks ago and when they failed I was mad,but now I can see Manning was 99.9% going to score anyway after seeing the debacle of this defense so I don't feel as bad as I did when they lost then,they were going to lose anyway or at least a 99.9.% probability.

When you remember the famous phrase by Jim Mora saying "Playoffs?,your talking Playoffs?" you can relate to this team,if the team cannot hold together on the road and start winning we could actually lose this division and miss the playoffs again,next week is a MUST WIN no doubt about it because I don't think this team is going to win out,even at Buffalo could be tough.

Obviously this post is related to the aftermath of last night and the feeling is depressing right now and if they beat Miami everything will look better, but I don't feel Pees is doing a very good job of using his players to the best of their ability at this point so it is more than frustrating.

 

[4xMVP]

Re: Looking back at the infamous 4th Down and 2 call.....

Defense Wins Championships?

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: Looking back at the infamous 4th Down and 2 call.....

Defense Wins Championships?

If it really does,then I have one phrase to say......Better Luck Next Year

 

[Bertil]

Re: Looking back at the infamous 4th Down and 2 call.....

If it really does,then I have one phrase to say......Better Luck Next Year

When I try to be objective, I realize that there is almost no way that the Pats will (barring something '03/'04 era miraculous) beat the likes of Cincy, San Diego, Indy, not to mention Minny or Nawlins. If they can't pressure any QB, the elite QBs will surely torch them.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: Looking back at the infamous 4th Down and 2 call.....

When I try to be objective, I realize that there is almost no way that the Pats will (barring something '03/'04 era miraculous) beat the likes of Cincy, San Diego, Indy, not to mention Minny or Nawlins. If they can't pressure any QB, the elite QBs will surely torch them.

You know what is REALLY scary? - The fact that the Saints were able to toss a 38 burger without Lance Moore and Reggie Bush,their two top offensive players

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Looking back at the infamous 4th Down and 2 call.....

You know what is REALLY scary? - The fact that the Saints were able to toss a 38 burger without Lance Moore and Reggie Bush,their two top offensive players

Lance Moore had a nice season last year but let's be serious, he's way down the list of "their top offensive players". So is Bush, though not as far down. With the emergence of Meachem and the acquisition of Shockey, Moore wouldn't be seeing the field much this year.

 

[DarrylS]

Re: Looking back at the infamous 4th Down and 2 call.....

You know what is REALLY scary? - The fact that the Saints were able to toss a 38 burger without Lance Moore and Reggie Bush,their two top offensive players

It ain't all that scary, the Saints are still loaded... would take Thomas, Bell, Colston, Henderson, Meacham and Shockey on my team any day...

This will change when it is time for negotiations...

 

[maverick4]

That call really does look different now.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

As my signature line indicates, I supported the call at the time and, clearly, still do.

The Pat's D can't stop an elite QB. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. I thought we were in a four-down situation on Offense from anywhere beyond our own Red Zone about halfway through the second half on Monday.

Beyond that, I don't know what else to say.

Let's take care of business against the Dolphins and effectively lock up the Division and then see if BB can work some magic before the Playoffs.

 

[RussFrancis]

Belichick showed little faith in his D that night on the famous 4th down call. But he clearly showed no more faith in his O the other night yanking the first unit with 5 minutes and change. Obviously a late win led by the starting O unit wasnt a very realistic thought, but then stopping Manning's O late in the other game defensively wasnt either. In a way, the early hook the other night was imo Belichick's way of "returning the favor".

 

[Rob0729]

I'm tired of talking about this play. I don't want to ever discuss it again.

As for the defense, it does have deficiencies now, but it doesn't mean those deficiencies will be still around come playoff time. In 2005, the Pats defense turned on a dime from a passive defense to an aggressive defense during the halftime of the KC game. The Colts went from having the worst run defense in history during the regular season of 2006 to shutting down both Larry Johnson (who was second in the league in rushing that year) and Jamal Lewis (who had a respectable 1132 yards in 2006).

I wouldn't give up on the defense just yet. Luckily they face some bad offenses over the next five weeks to allow them to get their crap together.

 

[maverick4]

The talent on this D is good enough, otherwise we wouldn't have such a respectable points-against rating.

It does give up big plays in key moments, something long characteristic of a Pees'-led defense.

 

[brady et al fan]

The talent on this D is good enough, otherwise we wouldn't have such a respectable points-against rating.

It does give up big plays in key moments, something long characteristic of a Pees'-led defense.

That's still debatable. I know you keep saying its talented enough but they haven't shown it yet. As for their rating, they rank 12th in YPG and 6th in points allowed. Ratings aren't very telling anyway as the only SB team of ours that ranked #1 in anything lost in the SB. Its more about how good are they against the best competition and so far these guys are not that good in that category.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

The talent on this D is good enough, otherwise we wouldn't have such a respectable points-against rating.

It does give up big plays in key moments, something long characteristic of a Pees'-led defense.

In other words, you're saying that this is the D that "breaks but doesn't bend?"

 

[Rob0729]

The talent on this D is good enough, otherwise we wouldn't have such a respectable points-against rating.

It does give up big plays in key moments, something long characteristic of a Pees'-led defense.

LOL! For years, when you wanted to blame McDaniels for everything that went wrong between 2005-2008, you bragged how great the defenses were in 2006-2008 (Pees' tenure) and how it was the offense that let the defense down. Now that McDaniels is gone, you want to blame Pees for giving up big plays in key momements during those years? You are unbelievable.

 

[emoney_33]

That call really does look different now.

No, actually it looks exactly the same now as it did when it was made.

 

[maverick4]

LOL! For years, when you wanted to blame McDaniels for everything that went wrong between 2005-2008, you bragged how great the defenses were in 2006-2008 (Pees' tenure) and how it was the offense that let the defense down. Now that McDaniels is gone, you want to blame Pees for giving up big plays in key momements during those years? You are unbelievable.

I never said Pees was great, I defended the 06-08 defense whenever you threw them under the bus to make a million excuses for offensive failures. That defense was #2 ranked in 2006, #4 ranked in 2007, and #7 in 2008.

Rob just essentially wrote in another thread that because of the Pats superior offensive rankings, it is never at fault.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

The offense absolutely helped our defense. Rarely did the defense have to come back onto the field a few minutes after a stop, and the other team was often playing catch-up and passing every play by the second half. That's the only way a guy like Vrabel (at that age) could get 12 sacks.

BTW, talent always helps, but the DC makes the defense. Jim Johnson could have put 9 PatsFans members on the field with Trent Cole and Brian Dawkins and give offenses hell. He might as well have last year.

 

[maverick4]

BTW, talent always helps, but the DC makes the defense. Jim Johnson could have put 9 PatsFans members on the field with Trent Cole and Brian Dawkins and give offenses hell. He might as well have last year.

If you agree that the coordinators on this team have influence in their play calls and on the outcome of the game, do you blame Belichick for their screw-ups?

 

[Rob0729]

I never said Pees was great, I defended the 06-08 defense whenever you threw them under the bus to make a million excuses for offensive failures. That defense was #2 ranked in 2006, #4 ranked in 2007, and #7 in 2008.

Rob just essentially wrote in another thread that because of the Pats superior offensive rankings, it is never at fault.

LOL! You are too cute. Trying to argue with the big boys and failing miserably.