A Defense In Transition

[mgteich]

With the cuts, trades and extensions, I guess that we have the normal number of defensive free agents in 2010.

FREE AGENTS
Wilfork, Green, Burgess, Woods, Bodden

SIGNED, ERFA'S OR RFA'S IN 2010
DL - Warren, Brace, Pryor, Wright
LB - Thomas, Mayo, Guyton, Thomas, Banta-Cain, Ninkovich, McKenzie, Crable
CB - Wilhite, Butler, Springs, Wheatley
S - Meriweather, McGowan, Chung, Sanders, Lockett

 

[BelichickFan]

DL is very risky with no Vince. If he leaves there will be a DL high in the draft for sure.

LB we need at least one more although McKenzie coming back could help. Again, at least one high pick here. Thomas looks expensive to cut on Miguel's page, although I don't understand all the intricies, so he may yet be around another year.

It will be fascinating what they do with Vince, if he's not re-signed you have to assume he'll be Franchised and, if so, could get us a mid round #1 or multiple lower picks.

 

[Kontradiction]

DL is very risky with no Vince. If he leaves there will be a DL high in the draft for sure.

LB we need at least one more although McKenzie coming back could help. Again, at least one high pick here. Thomas looks expensive to cut on Miguel's page, although I don't understand all the intricies, so he may yet be around another year.

It will be fascinating what they do with Vince, if he's not re-signed you have to assume he'll be Franchised and, if so, could get us a mid round #1 or multiple lower picks.

I don't think so. I believe this is why we drafted Brace. Whether he would be a better NT than Vince is, of course, up for debate.

 

[BelichickFan]

I don't think so. I believe this is why we drafted Brace. Whether he would be a better NT than Vince is, of course, up for debate.

I don't expect Vince back either - what I really meant by fascinating is if he leaves via a Franchise and Trade we could end up with a crazy number of good picks this year and next given that we already have 1,1,1,2,2,2,2 over the two years combined. Imagine adding another #1 to that but at the expense of our stud NT.

 

[Kontradiction]

I don't expect Vince back either - what I really meant by fascinating is if he leaves via a Franchise and Trade we could end up with a crazy number of good picks this year and next given that we already have 1,1,1,2,2,2,2 over the two years combined. Imagine adding another #1 to that but at the expense of our stud NT.

If he leaves, I couldn't see it being any other way than a trade. There are a lot of teams out there either in a 3-4 without a dependable long-term NT or with one who has one but he is extremely long in the tooth. Vince could net us A LOT in a trade.

 

[BelichickFan]

Warren, Pryor, Mayo, Guyton, Meriweather, Chung, Butler, Wilhite are who I think will be long term starters with some others like Brace, McKenzie, McGowan, Crable, Wheatley not to be written off (with those like Wheatley and McGowan playing a lot even if they aren't starters).

I listed 8 guys, we have 7 picks in the first two rounds the next two years with another one almost certainly coming for Vince. I expect that's where we'll fill out the rest of the long term starters. As Mayoclinic has shown with his mock in the draft board, there's a ton of pass rushers out there this year.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Vince could net us A LOT in a trade.

I am convinced that the Pats will tag Wilfork as opposed to letting him just walk- especially in a uncapped year.

If the team feels that a long-term agreement is unattainable before the draft/TC, they will trade him easily for with the initial asking price of two #1s.

 

[mgteich]

Not that it matter at this point, but no one would pay 2 firsts for one year of Wilfork's services.

 

[BelichickFan]

Not that it matter at this point, but no one would pay 2 firsts for one year of Wilfork's services.

Like with Jared Allen, it would be with a long term deal pre-arranged. I don't expect two #1s but I think we'd get more than a #1 for a stud NT in his prime.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Not that it matter at this point, but no one would pay 2 firsts for one year of Wilfork's services.

Agree 100%. They would need to be allowed to work out a long term deal. The key being that Vince signs the one year tender.

My bad for not making that clear.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Like with Jared Allen, it would be with a long term deal pre-arranged. I don't expect two #1s but I think we'd get more than a #1 for a stud NT in his prime.

I said initial asking is two #1s. I agree though 1st and 3rd may be a more realistic haul with his youth, work ethic, leadership and talent being prime draws.

 

[chris66]

DL is very risky with no Vince. If he leaves there will be a DL high in the draft for sure.

LB we need at least one more although McKenzie coming back could help. Again, at least one high pick here. Thomas looks expensive to cut on Miguel's page, although I don't understand all the intricies, so he may yet be around another year.

It will be fascinating what they do with Vince, if he's not re-signed you have to assume he'll be Franchised and, if so, could get us a mid round #1 or multiple lower picks.

There is no reason not to sign Vince. Kraft makes enough money off this team to field a 160 million payroll. I know that the organization puts a dollar amount on players , but we haven't fielded a good defense in 5 years. Either they need to spend the money on quality fa's or start drafting better.

 

[chris66]

I don't expect Vince back either - what I really meant by fascinating is if he leaves via a Franchise and Trade we could end up with a crazy number of good picks this year and next given that we already have 1,1,1,2,2,2,2 over the two years combined. Imagine adding another #1 to that but at the expense of our stud NT.

I dont want the draft picks. i want the talent. BB hasnt been very good with his multiple picks the last few years.

 

[BelichickFan]

There is no reason not to sign Vince. Kraft makes enough money off this team to field a 160 million payroll.

We have Brady and probably Moss to re-sign after 2010. I know you know about the salary cap, we can't pay everyone. First contract players who come through make for incredible deals. Wilfork is costing $2.8M of the cap this year, it will be 4 times that if we re-sign him. Great player but only decent value at that price.

 

[RobertWeathers]

There is no reason not to sign Vince. .

What is Vince asking for? No one knows the answer to this question. If hes asking for 5yr /$70m w/ $40m guaranteed and a $17m cap hit per year, I think you need to franchise him and get some value to lessen the loss. If hes asking for a Warren-type deal, I agree.

we haven't fielded a good defense in 5 years. .

define good defense? 2006 was a good defense. 2007 was a good defense that didn't make the plays it had to when it had to.

 

[Nunchucks]

Not signing Wilfork is a huge mistake. Losing him would hurt the defense quite a bit. Nobody the Patriots have on the team or sign will be able to plug the hole left by his absence.

I don't want to hear about the cap and that nonsense. Other teams manage to spend big moey on players and still field a team, I don't see why the Patriots can't. Especially since they haven't been paying players 1st round money very often.

Lets also not forget that we are seeing the immense gap of talent lost by the trading away of Seymour. The right side of the Patriots defense is a friggin disaster and teams are taking advantage big time. Trading him away for a pick was a HUGE mistake.

 

[chris66]

What is Vince asking for? No one knows the answer to this question. If hes asking for 5yr /$70m w/ $40m guaranteed and a $17m cap hit per year, I think you need to franchise him and get some value to lessen the loss. If hes asking for a Warren-type deal, I agree.







define good defense? 2006 was a good defense. 2007 was a good defense that didn't make the plays it had to when it had to.

2006 defense is like this years defense. they play well against the sisters of the poor and get completely outclassed by good offenses

2007 defense was hidden by our great offense. IT made teams one dimensional

A good defense will have a shut down corner and a decent pass rush.

 

[chris66]

We have Brady and probably Moss to re-sign after 2010. I know you know about the salary cap, we can't pay everyone. First contract players who come through make for incredible deals. Wilfork is costing $2.8M of the cap this year, it will be 4 times that if we re-sign him. Great player but only decent value at that price.

I would sign Brady , but i wouldnt resign Moss. Moss doesnt work hard enough to get open. if he is double covered he lolly gags.

And thats the problem with the organization They want to get value. I'm sorry value doesnt win superbowls. Top tier players do

In 06 we lost out on the super bowl because they didnt want to pay Branch. So we settle on bug eyes Caldwell instead. Lost oppurtinity

09 we get rid of our best player on D to get some value for him. How does that trade look so far.

Bottom line people is Brady probably only has a few top tier years left in him. The organization should be doing everything to maximize those years

 

[RobertWeathers]

2006 defense is like this years defense. they play well against the sisters of the poor and get completely outclassed by good offenses.

Cut them some slack. Go back and look at the 2006 schedule. They played many good offenses. 2006 team was beaten by a Colts team on the road, 4 guys on D with the flu and coming off a brutal div game at SD. Caldwell catches a 5yrd pass you don't have an arguement.

2007 defense was hidden by our great offense. IT made teams one dimensional..

Bull. They stop Manning, you don't have a case. Playoff D was outstanding.

Now 2002, 2005 and 2008 you are spot-on.

A good defense will have a shut down corner and a decent pass rush.

I agree. But both teams had a pass rush and A$ante.

 

[chris66]

Cut them some slack. Go back and look at the 2006 schedule. They played many good offenses. 2006 team was beaten by a Colts team on the road, 4 guys on D with the flu and coming off a brutal div game at SD. Caldwell catches a 5yrd pass you don't have an arguement.



Bull. They stop Manning, you don't have a case. Playoff D was outstanding.

Now 2002, 2005 and 2008 you are spot-on.



I agree. But both teams had a pass rush and A$ante.

The 06 sandiego game. the D was getting gashed by Tomlinson and gates all game. The only reason why we won that game was because for some reason Marty stopped running the ball and gift wrapped for us