How much does the lack of a good tight end matter to this year's team?

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

In the Patriots glory years we had some pretty good TEs who made big catches in big games (Wiggins,Fauria)

Now that the team is a bit lean after the top 2 WRs,the problem lies with the lack of speed or talent to make plays at the TE position.

Watson was my X-Factor against the Saints but he only managed 2 receptions for 14 yards and Chris Baker has not played since the Indy game and has done nothing when he has played anyway.

When Moss is being handled and Welker can't find gaps in the slot we need those TEs to help Brady out,in games like Sunday this may have been a big factor in moving the chains.

Watson has been a factor in the early part of the season but has once again dissapeared

While we all scratch our heads almost every draft when BB selects a TE we may not be so surprised if he does again in April,This team needs a game changer at TE which seldom gets much talk when speaking about a struggling offensive game,instead we look at the 3rd WR position yet the TE area needs to be addressed as well.

 

[JSn]

The TE's can't get away too often when the line is getting pushed around.

 

[maverick4]

It isn't the lack of talent at tight end, it's the crappy scheme and play calls which don't even try to use tight ends.

Those early passes to Watson and Baker in the season, were ad-libs during the play, they aren't even in the playbook to get passes.

 

[Kontradiction]

Watson and Baker are fine. When they are in, they are used in blocking situations way more often than not. Just look at what Watson has done when he has been given the opportunity to run routes and catch passes this year. Blame the lack of tight ends catching passes on the O-Line needing help more than the actual TE's.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

The OL is really not getting any love here I see

 

[mgteich]

Watson and baker are fine. They have indeed made key plays this year.

As I recall, Wiggins had one great game. It was in the snow, when the rest of the players were slowed down to his speed.

 

[jimmyjames]

In the Patriots glory years we had some pretty good TEs who made big catches in big games (Wiggins,Fauria)

Now that the team is a bit lean after the top 2 WRs,the problem lies with the lack of speed or talent to make plays at the TE position.

Watson was my X-Factor against the Saints but he only managed 2 receptions for 14 yards and Chris Baker has not played since the Indy game and has done nothing when he has played anyway.

When Moss is being handled and Welker can't find gaps in the slot we need those TEs to help Brady out,in games like Sunday this may have been a big factor in moving the chains.

Watson has been a factor in the early part of the season but has once again dissapeared

While we all scratch our heads almost every draft when BB selects a TE we may not be so surprised if he does again in April,This team needs a game changer at TE which seldom gets much talk when speaking about a struggling offensive game,instead we look at the 3rd WR position yet the TE area needs to be addressed as well.

Are you saying that we are lean at the position of 3rd string TE? Also Watson is far better than Wiggins or Fauria ever were.

 

[maverick4]

The talent on O-line is fine.

The O-line talent from 01-04 was MUCH WORSE, Graham was regularly used to help block, and yet Graham and Fauria still caught tons of red zone passes.

The problem isn't blaming the O-line talent, it's the playcalling and scheme which don't even call plays for the tight ends. Even play action passes this year are designed for the receivers, not the tight ends right now.

The catches Baker and Watson got earlier this season were flukes, they changed their routes mid-play and Brady ad-libbed. The coordinator isn't calling any plays for these guys to catch balls. They can do it though.

 

[ausbacker]

It's funny that tight end production is the object of conversation considering the pining some people were doing for a Daniel Graham return to the Patriots.

 

[mayoclinic]

Watson and baker are fine. They have indeed made key plays this year.

As I recall, Wiggins had one great game. It was in the snow, when the rest of the players were slowed down to his speed.

Agreed. Anyone who thinks Wiggins and Fauria were better than Watson and Baker needs to think again.

We have plenty of talent at TE. We just aren't using it. Where are the 2 TE sets, the playaction, and all the great things that we did pre-2007 when we starting going to the spread offense so much?

Get Watson and Baker involved in the passing game, and then see how they compare to Wiggins and Fauria.

 

[SidelineSid]

The talent on O-line is fine.

The O-line talent from 01-04 was MUCH WORSE, Graham was regularly used to help block, and yet Graham and Fauria still caught tons of red zone passes.

The problem isn't blaming the O-line talent, it's the playcalling and scheme which don't even call plays for the tight ends. Even play action passes this year are designed for the receivers, not the tight ends right now.

The catches Baker and Watson got earlier this season were flukes, they changed their routes mid-play and Brady ad-libbed. The coordinator isn't calling any plays for these guys to catch balls. They can do it though.

I have to agree with you. We don't have a personnel problem, we have a schematic problem. It's our offensive philosophy that it messed up. A lot of kool-aid drinkers will tell you that this same offense set the world on fire in 07. Guess what, it didn't. It set the world on fire in September, October, and parts of November, and then the league caught on.

In the playoffs, we adapted. We ran the ball more against Jacksonville and San Diego. We won. We got away from the run against the Giants, and we lost.

What we can't do is sprinkle in a running game here and there to give other teams the impression of a balanced offense. We have to ESTABLISH THE RUN. Establishing the run implies consistency and rhythm. We don't have that in our running game. We run out of the shotgun most of the time. We used to run out of all kinds of formations in the past. What happened?

Our offensive line was less than stellar in the championship years, and our wide receivers were not spectacular. That made us spread the ball around. We don't do that anymore. We have the tight ends to make the big plays. We just don't use them.

If Charlie Weis wants back in, bring him back!

 

[maverick4]

I have to agree with you. We don't have a personnel problem, we have a schematic problem. It's our offensive philosophy that it messed up. A lot of kool-aid drinkers will tell you that this same offense set the world on fire in 07. Guess what, it didn't. It set the world on fire in September, October, and parts of November, and then the league caught on.

In the playoffs, we adapted. We ran the ball more against Jacksonville and San Diego. We won. We got away from the run against the Giants, and we lost.

What we can't do is sprinkle in a running game here and there to give other teams the impression of a balanced offense. We have to ESTABLISH THE RUN. Establishing the run implies consistency and rhythm. We don't have that in our running game. We run out of the shotgun most of the time. We used to run out of all kinds of formations in the past. What happened?

Our offensive line was less than stellar in the championship years, and our wide receivers were not spectacular. That made us spread the ball around. We don't do that anymore. We have the tight ends to make the big plays. We just don't use them.

If Charlie Weis wants back in, bring him back!

Amen. And yet there are still stat whores here who point to the 27 points per game this 2009 offense gets, and even argue that O'Brien is a good coordinator doing the exact bidding of Belichick!!

The more realistic reality is that Belichick's hands are tied from hiring coordinators past a certain salary, and is forced to coach up his own sub-par coaches.

 

[BradyFTW!]

It isn't the lack of talent at tight end, it's the crappy scheme and play calls which don't even try to use tight ends.

Those early passes to Watson and Baker in the season, were ad-libs during the play, they aren't even in the playbook to get passes.

That, pretty much. When we bothered to throw to Watson, he demonstrated his first-round talent. Now, we're just not even trying anymore. It's at least partly because we have to leave them in to block a lot of the time, but it's not just that imo. Brady went to Watson twice down the seam in the first half, and honestly you could maybe make a case that Watson should have had one of those balls, but both were very difficult catches, and certainly weren't fantastic throws.

 

[maverick4]

That, pretty much. When we bothered to throw to Watson, he demonstrated his first-round talent. Now, we're just not even trying anymore. It's at least partly because we have to leave them in to block a lot of the time, but it's not just that imo. Brady went to Watson twice down the seam in the first half, and honestly you could maybe make a case that Watson should have had one of those balls, but both were very difficult catches, and certainly weren't fantastic throws.

Yes. Blaming the O-line or saying the TE's needs to block as an excuse, is more LAZY analysis from the same people who think the solution is a 4th receiver or better O-line talent.

It's a scheme and play calling issue.

Daniel Graham routinely blocked, with a MUCH less talented 2003 O-line, and yet Graham and Fauria still got plenty of red zone and key catches, because they were actually used in the passing game. Through 11 games, Watson and Baker aren't even on Bill O'Brien's play-calling sheet.

 

[Fencer]

Bring back Mike Vrabel!

 

[IcyPatriot]

It isn't the lack of talent at tight end, it's the crappy scheme and play calls which don't even try to use tight ends.

Those early passes to Watson and Baker in the season, were ad-libs during the play, they aren't even in the playbook to get passes.

Belichick needs batteries in that headset ... that's what the problem is.

They think their talking to Bill and take his silence as apporval of the schemes and plays called.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Who the hell knows why they are not using Watson's speed to match up against opposing LB's. He needs to be incorporated in the game plan a lot more.

 

[RayClay]

In the Patriots glory years we had some pretty good TEs who made big catches in big games (Wiggins,Fauria)

Now that the team is a bit lean after the top 2 WRs,the problem lies with the lack of speed or talent to make plays at the TE position.

Watson was my X-Factor against the Saints but he only managed 2 receptions for 14 yards and Chris Baker has not played since the Indy game and has done nothing when he has played anyway.

When Moss is being handled and Welker can't find gaps in the slot we need those TEs to help Brady out,in games like Sunday this may have been a big factor in moving the chains.

Watson has been a factor in the early part of the season but has once again dissapeared

While we all scratch our heads almost every draft when BB selects a TE we may not be so surprised if he does again in April,This team needs a game changer at TE which seldom gets much talk when speaking about a struggling offensive game,instead we look at the 3rd WR position yet the TE area needs to be addressed as well.

Yeah, you nailed it. Wiggins and Fauria are much better than Watson and Baker.

It doesn't matters how good someone is when they don't don't get regular looks.

Seriously Wiggins? Do you follow the game at all?

 

[IcyPatriot]

You can't send TE's out into their routes when they are helping the line block.

 

[Joker]

Bring back Mike Vrabel!

and Grogs too!!!