Want to feel better? Just remember 2005

[upstater1]

Re: Want to Feel Better? Just Remember 2005

i think you can find a loss like this in every down yr including last yr like the miami shellacking @home. We then win a bunch of games and become the team "firing on all cylinders" when the reality is that league is full of average teams and you have to beat only 3-4 good teams in an yr to make the playoffs. The mediocrity in the league makes us and other teams look good at the end .We may win the next 5 and people will forget its the same team which got blown out @NO and start saying things like we can beat indy and NO in the playoffs.

But in one of those other years you reference New England was a blown ref call from winning the Super Bowl. 2006.

Look at 'Zona last year.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Want to Feel Better? Just Remember 2005

Compare them to any of the last Pats team, like in 08, 06, 05. Only having a winning record because of beating bad teams, fold like a house of cards when ever you face a good team.

That's just the Patriots for you the last 4 years.

They folded like a house of cards in 2006? They should have won that game--and would have--were it not for the refs.

That being said, even in the 2003 Super Bowl, the defense was pretty porous.

They gave up 30 points in 32 minues to Jake DelHomme.

 

[BionicPatriot]

Re: Want to Feel Better? Just Remember 2005

They folded like a house of cards in 2006? They should have won that game--and would have--were it not for the refs.

That being said, even in the 2003 Super Bowl, the defense was pretty porous.

They gave up 30 points in 32 minues to Jake DelHomme.

Lol, c'mon man. Yes the refs stunk up the joint. But how many points did they help the Colts get, 7 MAYBE 14? That offense put up over 30 on us, and you, like everyone else here continues to blame our losses to the Colts on calls. Man, how the mighty have fallen.

The 03 defense was automatic all year. It got us there, but when Rodney Harrison, Tyrone Poole AND Eugene Wilson all go down in the same game, that's a reasonable excuse, no? But hey, maybe Bill's defenses just can't hold a lead and we just have to pray they can get the ball in Brady's hands every time the last minute.

 

[holyredeemer]

Re: Want to Feel Better? Just Remember 2005

It’s funny how reactionary everyone---fans, media, everyone--is after every game, although nobody likes to admit it…..we all pretend we’re being objective and realistic. The Pats win yesterday? They’re awesome. They get blown out? “Give me the last 5 years of my life back.” It’s comic.

Here’s the thing. The Pats lost big yesterday to a really outstanding team. Too often we forget there are two teams playing. Yesterday, the Saints were at the top of their game, and the Pats played a bad game, with predictable results.

I think the best thing to do is go back to 2005. That season, the Pats got clobbered more than once--the last beating by the Colts in November in a game very similar to yesterday’s. They went on to win 6 of their last 7 (not including the last game of the season to Miami that they wanted to lose). It might not be that hopeful to refer back to a season with a second round playoff loss, but anyone who watched that game knew the Pats had a really outstanding squad at that point, with uncharacteristic errors doing them in. The goal for the Patriots now is to work to get back to that level of play, and let the chips fall.

There were a lot of things wrong yesterday you could reasonably expect not to see again. Brady played poorly. The offensive line was out of sync, and will benefit greatly from getting Vollmer back. The bad line play threw the whole offense out of whack. The young secondary isn’t anywhere in the vicinity as bad as they looked yesterday--the coaching staff will make the most of the learning opportunity. On the plus side, Maroney is running harder than I’ve ever seen him. The lack of a consistent pass rush is the one element that would be the best bet to end their season, but one game at a time.

Point is, there’s a lot of talent on this team on both sides of the ball. Yesterday was one game, a bad one for the Pats. But they’re winning the division, Cincy & SD play each other, Cincy goes to Minnesota, San Diego goes to Dallas and (hard to believe they’re playing well but they are) Tennessee, etc. , so the #2 seed is hardly a stretch. It’s always darkest before the dawn. Keep the faith.

I love the optimism in your post, but be realistic man. The problems that people are complaining about last night, are the same problems we have had allllll yr. long, and they still have not been corrected. That's why I personally am upset, that's why I personally am complaining.

I cant speak for anyone else, but if this was the only game of the yr where we showed those problems, O.K. Lets fix em and move on. However, we have showed these problems in every loss this year.

O-Line doesnt give time for Brady. Brady doesnt perform well under pressure. Moss gets snuffed. Play calling is absurdly predictable. Defense gives up too many big plays due to being soft. Cant get any pressure on the QB. Failure to gain any momentum after halftime. Its goes on and on and on.

 

[olschool]

Re: Want to Feel Better? Just Remember 2005

Lol, c'mon man. Yes the refs stunk up the joint. But how many points did they help the Colts get, 7 MAYBE 14? That offense put up over 30 on us, and you, like everyone else here continues to blame our losses to the Colts on calls. Man, how the mighty have fallen.

The 03 defense was automatic all year. It got us there, but when Rodney Harrison, Tyrone Poole AND Eugene Wilson all go down in the same game, that's a reasonable excuse, no? But hey, maybe Bill's defenses just can't hold a lead and we just have to pray they can get the ball in Brady's hands every time the last minute.

I never blame losses on the refs. You win or lose despite the refs. Score enough points and defend better, and the refs become just an annoyance.

Injuries have much more of an effect. Eventually the depth runs out, and the bench proves why they're not starters.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Want to Feel Better? Just Remember 2005

Lol, c'mon man. Yes the refs stunk up the joint. But how many points did they help the Colts get, 7 MAYBE 14? That offense put up over 30 on us, and you, like everyone else here continues to blame our losses to the Colts on calls. Man, how the mighty have fallen.

The 03 defense was automatic all year. It got us there, but when Rodney Harrison, Tyrone Poole AND Eugene Wilson all go down in the same game, that's a reasonable excuse, no? But hey, maybe Bill's defenses just can't hold a lead and we just have to pray they can get the ball in Brady's hands every time the last minute.

I will blame the refs for that one until my dying days.

Let me count the ways:

End of 1st half, a totally bogus OPI on Troy Brown takes the Patriots out of field goal range after a 3rd down conversion: 3 points gone if not 7.

Bogus PI on Ellis Hobbs on a third down gives the Colts a 1st down at the one when they would be punting from the 40: 7 points.

Reche Caldwell raped in the end zone, no call. Patriots kick a FG: 4 points.

Refs were directly responsible for a 14 point swing.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Want to Feel Better? Just Remember 2005

I never blame losses on the refs. You win or lose despite the refs. Score enough points and defend better, and the refs become just an annoyance.

Injuries have much more of an effect. Eventually the depth runs out, and the bench proves why they're not starters.

When you're playing the Colts, you will lose if the refs spot the Colts 14 points.

You're asking the Patriots to score enough points to ignore the refs against the Colts.

Let me tell you now: that's NOT going to happen.

When the Patriots play the Colts, the refs cannot blow huge calls like they did in 2006.

 

[aluminum seats]

Re: Want to Feel Better? Just Remember 2005

I love the optimism in your post, but be realistic man. The problems that people are complaining about last night, are the same problems we have had allllll yr. long, and they still have not been corrected. That's why I personally am upset, that's why I personally am complaining.

I cant speak for anyone else, but if this was the only game of the yr where we showed those problems, O.K. Lets fix em and move on. However, we have showed these problems in every loss this year.

O-Line doesnt give time for Brady. Brady doesnt perform well under pressure. Moss gets snuffed. Play calling is absurdly predictable. Defense gives up too many big plays due to being soft. Cant get any pressure on the QB. Failure to gain any momentum after halftime. Its goes on and on and on.

I wasn't really trying to be overly optimistic, just trying to balance the gloom after a loss (like too much euphoria after a win). (Well, the "darkness before the dawn was a bit much, probably. But anyway.)

On your points, which are pretty much spot-on: I don't think the O-Line has been a consistent problem, but I do think Vollmer has evolved into a guy they need in there. Assuming he's healthy, the line should be fine. Agreed on the playcalling, but I can't believe that's not fixable....I consider a lot of the playcalling, certainly on defense, to be a work in progress. The halftime concern I agree is a real one, but it's not one I can figure out what the problem is, to be honest.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Want to Feel Better? Just Remember 2005

You don't really notice the positive affect of Garbango around until the Pats get an arsewhooping.

 

[Patspsycho]

Cincy & SD play each other, Cincy goes to Minnesota, San Diego goes to Dallas and (hard to believe they’re playing well but they are) Tennessee, etc. , so the #2 seed is hardly a stretch. It’s always darkest before the dawn. Keep the faith.

This is why I think if we win the rest of our games we have a good chance at a bye. Not shabby at all.

 

[BPF]

Re: Want to Feel Better? Just Remember 2005

I love the optimism in your post, but be realistic man. The problems that people are complaining about last night, are the same problems we have had allllll yr. long, and they still have not been corrected. That's why I personally am upset, that's why I personally am complaining.

I cant speak for anyone else, but if this was the only game of the yr where we showed those problems, O.K. Lets fix em and move on. However, we have showed these problems in every loss this year.

O-Line doesnt give time for Brady. Brady doesnt perform well under pressure. Moss gets snuffed. Play calling is absurdly predictable. Defense gives up too many big plays due to being soft. Cant get any pressure on the QB. Failure to gain any momentum after halftime. Its goes on and on and on.

There have been some problems but they are certainly correctable. I don't even compare this team to a past Patriots team, I think they're more comparable to the 2006 Colts. If you recall back to that year, the Colts although finishing 12-4 had a tough time on defense all season, especially heading into the playoffs. They were dominated in Jacksonville 44-17 in Week 14 when MJD ran all over them for 166 yds. They lost to the Titans in Week 13 and they finished 8-8 that season and they also lost to Houston in Week 16 when Ron Dayne ran all over them for 153 yds. They finished that season as the worst run defense and gave up 22.5 pts per game but when the playoffs came around their young defense started to figure it all out and we all know how that season ended. All I'm saying is the champion is not crowned till Jan/Feb, who would have thought heading into Week 13 of the 2007 season that the 10-6 Giants who finished up giving up nearly 22 pts per game would stop the most dominant offense in league history who averaged over 36 pts per game that season? All the Pats need to do is get in to the playoffs and then if they get on a roll they have as much of shot as any other team in the tournament. Too many recent examples lately of teams getting in as lower seeds and winning the SB to discount the Pats or any team at this point in time.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Re: Want to Feel Better? Just Remember 2005

Lol, c'mon man. Yes the refs stunk up the joint. But how many points did they help the Colts get, 7 MAYBE 14? That offense put up over 30 on us, and you, like everyone else here continues to blame our losses to the Colts on calls. Man, how the mighty have fallen.

Yeah, this. You NEVER LOSE A GAME BECAUSE OF THE REFS. You lose a call here, a call there... and the bad calls even out over time. The Pats collapsed in the Colts game, not the damn refs. They put themselves in a position where they had to RELY on getting the call of their choice to win. And frankly I don't see the "slam dunks" everybody else always sees in terms of the refs. Screw that excuse.

The 03 defense was automatic all year. It got us there, but when Rodney Harrison, Tyrone Poole AND Eugene Wilson all go down in the same game, that's a reasonable excuse, no? But hey, maybe Bill's defenses just can't hold a lead and we just have to pray they can get the ball in Brady's hands every time the last minute.

The team stank last night. They CAN be much better, and they CAN utterly collapse. Every year is different. I don't think I'd put my money on "collapse", but it remains to be seen how good this TALENTED group can be. If you haven't seen the flashes out of Merriweather, Bodden, and Mayo, you just refuse to (just for example). Question is what the consistent legacy will be, and one thing that will tell that story is what they're able to do against the best (much more so than when we're kicking the titans while they're whatever comes after "down".)

You don't give up on the chances after a game like last night, but you do reevaluate. If you're telling yourself "oh yeah its the Pats, Colts, Vikings, and Saints, with the steelers, cowboys, and bengals being so-so threats..." you're delusional at this point. We're second-tier at the moment. We'll get to see how sharp everybody gets against the so-so opponents... assuming again that this team keeps up December traditions. Then the playoffs will tell the real story.

I'll be parked in front of the TV as far as we go... but I'll have memories of the Denver game in my head the whole game every game. Love this team, just do not trust them .

PFnV

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Want to Feel Better? Just Remember 2005

This defense has more talent than some other Patriot teams that went a good long way. Namely 1996.

They need more seasoning, yes, but the talent is there.

It's hard to compare the two because they're 13 years apart. However, I'd take the 1996 squad any day of the week. More players on that team fit the mold of what Belichick likes to do. Chris Slade was better than any OLB the Pats currently have. Also, McGinest would've wrecked havoc had he played OLB early in his career. I'd also take Ted Johnson over Mayo. Running into Johnson was like running into a brick wall early in his career before he got injured in '99. The secondary was way more talented then the current squad. Although they may not be as fast as the current squad, they are a hell of a lot smarter.

DL - 2009 Pats
LB's - 1996 Pats
CB's - 1996 Pats
S's - 1996 Pats

 

[PowerAlley.com]

I dont know if any one has posted this yet. But since the Patriots only lose to undefeated teams, we will win out the rest of this year. We will get to the Championship game(since more than likely the Colts will be the 1 seed).

After that, we will see what happens.

The problem I am having is that I am so used the Patriots being the 1 of 3 or 4 elite teams. Last year and this year the Patriots are a step below elite.

Another interesting point. We are now 1 loss short of Matt Cassel's record leading the Patriots. I know I was thinking Tom Brady gives at least 2/3 wins over Matt.

And while I am busy rambling. Since the announcers were calling the Saints the NEW greatest show on Turf. It would be nice to get back to the Superbowl and beat the new "unstoppable" greatest show on turf.

Ramble finished.

Mike

 

[RIP#40]

What about Halloween in Pittsburgh? Smoked in regular season and were the smokers in playoffs. Are the Pats going to win the SuperBowl? Probably not, but stranger things have happened.

 

[Deus Irae]

The 2005 Super Bowl rings they got were awesome!


Oh, wait..........

 

[nekepeartnoy]

Re: Want to Feel Better? Just Remember 2005

There have been some problems but they are certainly correctable. I don't even compare this team to a past Patriots team, I think they're more comparable to the 2006 Colts. If you recall back to that year, the Colts although finishing 12-4 had a tough time on defense all season, especially heading into the playoffs. They were dominated in Jacksonville 44-17 in Week 14 when MJD ran all over them for 166 yds. They lost to the Titans in Week 13 and they finished 8-8 that season and they also lost to Houston in Week 16 when Ron Dayne ran all over them for 153 yds. They finished that season as the worst run defense and gave up 22.5 pts per game but when the playoffs came around their young defense started to figure it all out and we all know how that season ended. All I'm saying is the champion is not crowned till Jan/Feb, who would have thought heading into Week 13 of the 2007 season that the 10-6 Giants who finished up giving up nearly 22 pts per game would stop the most dominant offense in league history who averaged over 36 pts per game that season? All the Pats need to do is get in to the playoffs and then if they get on a roll they have as much of shot as any other team in the tournament. Too many recent examples lately of teams getting in as lower seeds and winning the SB to discount the Pats or any team at this point in time.

What you're forgetting about that Colts team is that Bob Sanders was out almost the entire regular season. They got him back just in time for the playoffs. When he returned, so did their run D.

Not trying to be a downer, just pointing out a very important fact.

I don't see a Demarcus Ware on the team that can give you guys an instant pass rush.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Want to Feel Better? Just Remember 2005

On maverick4's planet, every year features 1 good team and 31 ****ty ones. If you don't win the SB, then it's back to the drawing board because clearly you didn't do anything right.

 

[crypto]

Re: Want to Feel Better? Just Remember 2005

The 06 Colts had a devastating pass rush IIRC. The Patriots don't. In the playoffs you typically need an above-average pass rush and a good running game to make it far. That can occasionally be made up for with a great secondary and passing game, but the Patriots have neither of those. The secondary and the passing game are very good, but not lockdown, and they need to be lockdown if they don't run the ball, stop the run, and get to the QB when it matters.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Yeah the Colts when fully healthy have not one but TWO guys that can spin around in a circle. We don't have any.

You need consistent pressure on a QB to avoid what we saw Monday, a QB working with mechanical efficiency. It's nice to have a monster pass rush (Giants 07 is a better example... less gimmicky, more inevitible.)

Uh, it also helps not to blow a coverage so bad that you need an aerial shot of the play to see any defensive players when the receiver is shown catching the ball.

We just had the annual stinker on Monday, but I agree w/others here that at present we are second-tier. We're not "bad" per se, but we're capable of really bad moments (like every team every year except the real elite teams.) The Saints, Colts, and Vikes are "that team" right now. Sure we'll see who's "that team" in January, but it's not looking real good for the Pats as of early December.