BB and Pash Rushers

[mayoclinic]

Interesting article from the Globe today on NO DE Will Smith, who went #18 to the Saints in the 2004 draft out of Ohio State:

Pats were high on Smith in '04 draft - Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Some interesting tidbits: " 'He was certainly a guy we had a lot of interest in,' Patriots coach Bill Belichick said. 'He's a big guy who can run, rush the passer, pursue well, strong player at the point of attack, athletic, plays on his feet. He's got a group of skills, plays hard, been productive. I think he's been the player people thought he would be.' ... Thinking back to 2004, when Smith was coming out of Ohio State, Belichick didn't view him as an outside linebacker/defensive end type hybrid for the Patriots. Belichick compared the situation to Julius Peppers, saying that while he could probably play outside linebacker, a team wouldn't want to drop him into coverage because it would take him away from doing what he does best -- rushing the passer. Belichick was asked if it would be accurate that Smith was one of the few players he had in mind as a possibility for the Patriots in the first round of that 2004 draft. 'Yeah, sure,' he said. 'Any team I'm coaching, if you can get a good defensive lineman, you'd consider it. I don't care where it was, what the situation was, how many of them you might think you'd have. You really can't have too many of those guys if they're good.' "

Thinking about the 2010 draft, there are a ton of defensive linemen potentially coming out who have those kind of size and skills: big guys who can run, rush the passer, pursue well, strong player at the point of attack, are athletic, and play on their feet. These include:

- Derrick Morgan, Georgia Tech. 6'4" 268#. Unstoppable rushing the passer, plays the run just as well. Can probably drop back into space too.
- Carlos Dunlap, Florida. 6'6", 270-290# athletic freak. Upside is another Peppers.
- Greg Hardy, Mississippi. 6'6" 265#. A force when healthy, somewhat reminiscent of Jared Allen.
- Jason Pierre-Paul, USF. 6'6" 265#, 81" wingspan. Reminiscent of Jevon Kearse with his freakish athletic ability.
- Greg Romeus, Pittsburgh. 6'5" 265#. Incredible strong, like Morgan a force both rushing the passer and playing the run.
- Everson Griffen, USC. 6'3" 280# bull who runs like a deer, with very long arms.
- Austen Lane, Murray State. 6'6" 260#, has drawn comparisons to Jason Taylor.
- Jeremy Beal, Oklahoma. 6'3" 260#. Former linebacker. Has produced 58 tackles, 8 sacks and 1 INT this season.

I really see BB focusing on these kind of guys much more than DE/OLB "hybrids" like Sergio Kindle or Jerry Hughes, Eric Norwood or Ricky Sapp. They aren't guys who you would drop into coverage a lot, because it would take away from their skills up front, but they certainly have the athleticism to do it from time to time.

 

[BritPat]

I'd love us to go D-line/OLB heavy. I think it would show our true intentions and set us up for another 5 years at least.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'd love us to go D-line/OLB heavy. I think it would show our true intentions and set us up for another 5 years at least.

I really want 2 of those guys I listed above, plus 2 OLs. And possibly trade to get back into the draft and pick up a 3-4 DE.

A dream draft:

1(32) Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State. A young Seymour. Derrick Morgan would also be too good to pass up if he somehow fell.
2(42) Best available pass rusher - Jason Pierre-Paul, Greg Hardy, Everson Griffen, Greg Romeus or Carlos Dunlap (unlikely).
2(48) An interior lineman like Mike Iupati or Maurkice Pouncey.
2(64) A RT like Joseph Barksdale or Gabe Carimi
3(70)(Trade) Another pass rusher, but with a little more coverage and mobility, such as Jeremy Beal or Austen Lane. If Derrick Morgan was the #1 pick instead of Heyward, then a 3-4 DE like Corey Wootton or Adrian Clayborn.

Then maybe pickup a scat back like Noel Devine or Dexter McCluster.

We would be set on both sides of the line for years.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Watched the Georgia-Ga. Tech game last night and Morgan and the rest of the Tech D line got mauled. They were terrible, I think Georgia ran for over 300 yards against them. Those big SEC O lineman for Georgia blew up the Ga Tech D Line all night long.

BB values run stoppers highly in his defense and it is hard to see him drafting any of those kids after watching the tape of this game.

Ga Tech and Morgan however have a chance to redeem themselves as they play Clemson next week and Clemson rarely runs up the middle, they prefer to work the edges and if Morgan can set his edge with authority against a dynamic, but injured, back like Spiller, then that should go along ways toward redeeming himself.

 

[mayoclinic]

Watched the Georgia-Ga. Tech game last night and Morgan and the rest of the Tech D line got mauled. They were terrible, I think Georgia ran for over 300 yards against them. Those big SEC O lineman for Georgia blew up the Ga Tech D Line all night long.

BB values run stoppers highly in his defense and it is hard to see him drafting any of those kids after watching the tape of this game.

Ga Tech and Morgan however have a chance to redeem themselves as they play Clemson next week and Clemson rarely runs up the middle, they prefer to work the edges and if Morgan can set his edge with authority against a dynamic, but injured, back like Spiller, then that should go along ways toward redeeming himself.

Didn't see the game. I knew Georgia run for something like 366 yards, but wasn't sure whether Morgan got mauled with the rest of them. He's supposedly been very strong against the run all season.

 

[glm]

How far does anyone see Hardy slipping in the draft because of his injury?

 

[HarkDawg]

Texas has some stud O-line guys....... but w/ the Vollmer hit we could do something creative and TRADE Light for a 1st Round Pick


Two- Number 1's 2009 (could happen)

Two Number 1's 2010 (is currently)

Would be a GREAT thing!!!!!!!

go after a stud DE and Stud T...... then we r in business.... for 2009



just a though

 

[NePatriots]

Texas has some stud O-line guys....... but w/ the Vollmer hit we could do something creative and TRADE Light for a 1st Round Pick

Two- Number 1's 2009 (could happen)

Two Number 1's 2010 (is currently)

Would be a GREAT thing!!!!!!!

go after a stud DE and Stud T...... then we r in business.... for 2009

just a though

I think you are a bit off on your years...

the Patriots currently have 1 1st rounder in 2010, and 2 1st Rounders in 2011. The 2009 NFL Draft has already passed. See attached link:

2010 Patriots Draft Picks
2011 Patriots Draft Picks

Also, I don't think that Matt Light would command a 1st round pick... a 3rd rounder would be more likely in my opinion.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Watched the Georgia-Ga. Tech game last night and Morgan and the rest of the Tech D line got mauled. They were terrible, I think Georgia ran for over 300 yards against them. Those big SEC O lineman for Georgia blew up the Ga Tech D Line all night long.

BB values run stoppers highly in his defense and it is hard to see him drafting any of those kids after watching the tape of this game.

I watched the game, too, and I was worried about the same thing. I've never seen a defense so consistently blown off the ball on every play. It was a nightmare--fitting revenge for Georgia after last year's 400+ rushing yards against. Morgan played hard all game, and had some decent pressure on passing downs, but all the same, he looked very average against the run. Disappointing.

Also, I can't believe Thomas dropped that pass on 4th and 10. He ran off the corner beautifully, set up to catch the ball, and dropped a perfect pass. He looked so dejected on that play, I really felt sorry for him. I like his style, though, and he's definitely in the mix for a future #1 receiver when we need to replace Moss. I'm a big fan of his game.

 

[HarkDawg]

Texas has some stud O-line guys....... but w/ the Vollmer hit we could do something creative and TRADE Light for a 1st Round Pick


Two- Number 1's 2010 (could happen)

Two Number 1's 2011 (is currently)

Would be a GREAT thing!!!!!!!

go after a stud DE and Stud T...... then we r in business.... for 20010







just a though

-----------------------------------------------------


Forgot about the YEAR change come January (fixed it.)

 

[HarkDawg]

been off all week @ home... just wanted to get my thoughts in fast....


good catch

 

[mayoclinic]

I think you are a bit off on your years...

the Patriots currently have 1 1st rounder in 2010, and 2 1st Rounders in 2011. The 2009 NFL Draft has already passed. See attached link:

2010 Patriots Draft Picks
2011 Patriots Draft Picks

Also, I don't think that Matt Light would command a 1st round pick... a 3rd rounder would be more likely in my opinion.

No one would give up a 1st round pick for Matt Light. But a 3rd round pick is possible, and there should be excellent talent avaialble in the early 3rd round with this deep a draft.

I've suggested elsewhere that Pioli could trade KC's 3rd round pick for Matt Light. Here's why:

1. Pioli and Cassel know Light.
2. Light could start day 1 at LT and be an upgrade. Brandon Edwards is a good OL, but not clearly a good LT. He's given up something like 9 sacks so far this year.
3. Protecting Cassel is a priority, but the Chief's have lots of other needs. Getting Light for a 3rd round pick would allow them to draft for value instead of need in the first 2 rounds and get some playmakers.
4. Light's contract is extremely reasonable for a starting left tackle.

Some good players should be available around #70 where KC is likely to pick in the 3rd round. Some possibilities which I can see include:

- 3-4 DE's Corey Wootten and Adrian Clayborn.
- 3-4 DE/LB's Jeremy Beal, Eric Norwood and Austen Lane.
- OL's Vladimir Ducasse, Mike Pouncey, Mike Johnson, Chris Marinelli and Kyle Calloway.
- RBs Noel Devine, Dexter McCluster, and Toby Gerhart.
- WRs Danrio Alexander and Eric Decker.

I wouldn't mind some of those guys.

 

[HarkDawg]

Texas has some stud O-line guys....... but w/ the Vollmer hit we could do something creative and TRADE Light for a 1st Round Pick


Two- Number 1's 2010 (could happen)

Two Number 1's 2011 (is currently)

Would be a GREAT thing!!!!!!!

go after a stud DE and Stud T...... then we r in business.... for 20010







just a though

-----------------------------------------------------


Forgot about the YEAR change come January (fixed it.)

-Flip b/c this is best avenue of maximizing.

 

[HarkDawg]

No one would give up a 1st round pick for Matt Light. But a 3rd round pick is possible, and there should be excellent talent avaialble in the early 3rd round with this deep a draft.

I've suggested elsewhere that Pioli could trade KC's 3rd round pick for Matt Light. Here's why:

1. Pioli and Cassel know Light.
2. Light could start day 1 at LT and be an upgrade. Brandon Edwards is a good OL, but not clearly a good LT. He's given up something like 9 sacks so far this year.
3. Protecting Cassel is a priority, but the Chief's have lots of other needs. Getting Light for a 3rd round pick would allow them to draft for value instead of need in the first 2 rounds and get some playmakers.
4. Light's contract is extremely reasonable for a starting left tackle.

Some good players should be available around #70 where KC is likely to pick in the 3rd round. Some possibilities which I can see include:

- 3-4 DE's Corey Wootten and Adrian Clayborn.
- 3-4 DE/LB's Jeremy Beal, Eric Norwood and Austen Lane.
- OL's Vladimir Ducasse, Mike Pouncey, Mike Johnson, Chris Marinelli and Kyle Calloway.
- RBs Noel Devine, Dexter McCluster, and Toby Gerhart.
- WRs Danrio Alexander and Eric Decker.

I wouldn't mind some of those guys.

A third???? Are you serious?? why you value him so low?

He is a legit two if you r deeming him a 3

 

[HarkDawg]

Granted it was Al Davis..... Davis gave up a future 1 for King Richard

I think we could get a 1 this year for him w/ the no cap year approaching:singing:

 

[mayoclinic]

A third???? Are you serious?? why you value him so low?

He is a legit two if you r deeming him a 3

Because he'll be a 32 year old offensive tackle on the downside of his career.

I'm happy to get a 2nd for Light, but you're a better GM than most if you can do it.

 

[NePatriots]

A third???? Are you serious?? why you value him so low?

He is a legit two if you r deeming him a 3

Don't get me wrong, I love Light - he is a great Patriot. He just isn't worth a 2nd rounder in the current metagame. The 2nd rounders this year are like gold... you'll get late 1st round talent for 2nd round prices.

 

[patchick]

A third???? Are you serious?? why you value him so low?

He is a legit two if you r deeming him a 3

A third is a BEST-case scenario for a 32-year-old lineman coming off an injury-plagued season and entering the final year of his contract.

 

[patchick]

I really see BB focusing on these kind of guys much more than DE/OLB "hybrids" like Sergio Kindle or Jerry Hughes, Eric Norwood or Ricky Sapp. They aren't guys who you would drop into coverage a lot, because it would take away from their skills up front, but they certainly have the athleticism to do it from time to time.

Great topic, Mayo. After being thoroughly bamboozled for years by BB's passing on OLB prospects of every stripe, the idea of targeting 4-3 pass rusher types instead might breathe new life into my mock drafts.

 

[carolinatony]

I am with you Mayo but would like a RB somewhere in this draft.
2 DL/LB and 1 OL would be great to built on the future but I see a RB as a need ala Dillion.